MaybeLaterx wrote:The frame/focus idea sounds very promising, and I know this is a framer discussion, but I wonder if Disguiser would actually fit better for that change. Disguiser disguises as another player's role, then appears to visit a house (2nd target) AS that player. I think thematically it's better. You fake visiting someone's house as someone else, and if you die you appear as that role. 'Framing' a visit... That doesn't sit right in my mind. They are watching who enters the house. Are you messing with their binoculars or something?
ScarfVendetta wrote:There are other ways that Framer can be buffed instead (e.g. making fellow Mafia members appear innocent, or being able to choose the investigative results of the framed target).
Brilliand wrote:ScarfVendetta wrote:There are other ways that Framer can be buffed instead (e.g. making fellow Mafia members appear innocent, or being able to choose the investigative results of the framed target).
The problem with those buffs is that they still let the Framer be useless in some possible rolls of the Ranked rolelist.
The Framer needs to have some use against every TI role, just in case that's the only TI role that spawns; unless the Framer is given some ability that doesn't depend on particular Town roles at all (like every other Mafia role has).
shapesifter13 wrote:Brilliand wrote:The problem with those buffs is that they still let the Framer be useless in some possible rolls of the Ranked rolelist.
The Framer needs to have some use against every TI role, just in case that's the only TI role that spawns; unless the Framer is given some ability that doesn't depend on particular Town roles at all (like every other Mafia role has).
This is our end goal. We have plans to make the framer be able to affect every Town Investigative role to some degree. This post was just focused on the idea of framing targets to show to the lookout, and ways that could potentially backfire. So far, my favorite design is allowing the framer's frame target, to show as visiting instead of the Mafioso/Godfather, but this sounds like it might feel more disguisery potentially. Atleast lore wise.
TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:As for Lookout (and Tracker ), I feel like making it seem as though they visit who the Mafioso/Godfather visited is a good idea. However, with the TPLO meta, there isn't much that would be seen by LO, anyway, as they are going to be slurping on the Jailor the whole game.
Trollermo wrote:Lookout : someone claim jailor ... Lookout going on jailor.. framer too .. The true visits is Jailord visited by thomas danforth , Imprism and Kira ... With framer visit change to random 3 visits
Mister32505 wrote:I've got idea how to make framer interesting.
Let him trigger a game message at the end of other player night. A single message like "You were transported to another location" or "You were attacked but someone healed you".
This way you can make confusion in the game when someone you made think was transported claims transported, but there's no other person claiming it and that person looks sus for being solo transported.
Or you can force a message "You were controlled by a witch", someone claims being witched next day. Thanks to that, exe/jester have easier job to do, which might make one town member die easier.
Brilliand wrote:Always making it looks like the framed target visited the Lookout's target is a bit much. That would be more likely to confirm the existence of the Framer and tell the Town which player was framed than to actually cause confusion.
I've previously seen the proposal that if the Lookout is watching the person the Mafia kills, they see the framed person visit that target instead of seeing the Mafia Killer. That would more reliably allow the Framer to mess with the Lookout, without tipping the Town off as to what is going on. (This was included as part of JacksonVirgo's Framer rework, which required two targets as written but would still work pretty well with only one target.)
And - just brainstorming - the opposite idea (the Lookout doesn't see the framed player visit at all, even if they're watching the person the framed player visited) would also usefully weaken the Lookout, and would be more effective against the Jailor meta in particular.
Spies will see both visits.
BasicFourLife wrote:Note, the last part of the change which says-Spies will see both visits.
Is not how it should work, since focusing is not a visitation action and you don't visit the second person at all as a Framer, therefore only the framed person's visit would be seen by the current version of the Spy. Just wanted to clarify this.
BasicFourLife wrote:Also this is NOT the original creator of the idea and you should give credit to the OG creator. Please do not give credit to people who steal ideas that have already been widely accepted.
shapesifter13 wrote:Hey Townies!
We are looking into ways to help improve the framers role in the Mafia as the anti-investigate role. Currently it only affects the Sheriff and the Investigator, leaving the Spy, Lookout, Psychic, and Tracker unaffected. In this post I am going to focusing on the Lookout specifically.
One possibility to improve the framer would be to show the lookout that the framed target visited their target. This, combined with the lookout seeing 3 roles max per night, would mean the framer has more power as an anti-investigative role. As the community, what is your opinion on a change like this. Is there any scenario that this would be a negative? Is there another suggestion to effect the lookout that wouldn't require extra targeting menus for the framer?
DeanAdamFry wrote:Spy: Framed target and Framer destroy Spy's bugs if they are the Spy's target. Spy receives message "Your target destroyed your bug!"
shapesifter13 wrote:Hey Townies!
We are looking into ways to help improve the framers role in the Mafia as the anti-investigate role. Currently it only affects the Sheriff and the Investigator, leaving the Spy, Lookout, Psychic, and Tracker unaffected. In this post I am going to focusing on the Lookout specifically.
One possibility to improve the framer would be to show the lookout that the framed target visited their target. This, combined with the lookout seeing 3 roles max per night, would mean the framer has more power as an anti-investigative role. As the community, what is your opinion on a change like this. Is there any scenario that this would be a negative? Is there another suggestion to effect the lookout that wouldn't require extra targeting menus for the framer?
texer wrote:Lookout: I would say that if the lookout visits someone who was visited by the mafia, the framed person appears as having visited the target instead of the member of the mafia (there could be problems here if more than one person from the mafia visits the same person though).
Brilliand wrote:texer wrote:Lookout: I would say that if the lookout visits someone who was visited by the mafia, the framed person appears as having visited the target instead of the member of the mafia (there could be problems here if more than one person from the mafia visits the same person though).
Oh, a full-Mafia version of the "save the Mafioso" idea... I think this is too risky. The problem is, what if two lookouts see two of the Mafia visits? The Framed person is confirmed to be either framed or Transporter (since they "visited" 2 targets). Also, this prevents RMs from visiting for the purpose of fooling the Lookout while there is an active Framer.
Amythyr wrote:Imo Framer Should have following characteristics:
1. Framing should be Astral
2. Framer should be allowed to choose what to frame them as.
3. Framing Should persist entire game like a hex does.
4. Framing should be not visible to spy
There is no need for any other buffs imo.
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