Schultz128 wrote:Also passing the checks weren't that hard tbh, I passed all of Met's checks. The only busted thing about the ability was it being permanent and not limited to one person per cycle/phase.
TheNiceOne16 wrote:None combat roles should be able to leverage their power to either make combat roles do what they want through manipulation or to set up senarios where their strengths shine is my opinion. I'm even fine with one shots as long as they contain counter play embedded within them. Your ability does not do this. I bealive strougly in counter play to make a fun game.
I don't see the point about not wanting oneshots, it's a killing game, and I still have to actually roll, or combat has to actually happen for me to be able to one-shot. Plus, I need to have a weapon to do so. It wasn't hidden knowledge that I had that gun that killed those two. I didn't even have a good PRC stat. It's not like I look at the guy and snap their neck instantly, then vanish, and I was actually in another room talking to someone the whole time.
TheNiceOne16 wrote:The difference is simply, one is a fight and the other is a slaughter. No one enjoys being slaughtered, people can enjoy fights.
On the knife, I simply don't like one shots and would not allow it unless you set it up by prehaps sneaking up on them since you could theoretically counter this by being paranoid to always have you back to a wall. A straight up "Cut Jacks Neck" rolled nat 20 instant kill is not something I would ever want or enjoy.
The second part? I don't like the ability but it being a one and not a nat 1 makes it not OP except for the ability to constantly simulate attacking your target. That seems broken still. How can't you get a one shot off of that? Or am I reading it wrong/
Schultz128 wrote:Do note, the only 1-shot in this game was me, and it wasn't because of Met's ability.
The difference is that the sneak attack is something that can be predicted and you can do something about. Your ability allows no way for people to know it exsists and thus no way to counter it.
. Its the differense between an invisble mind controller in the sky and an obvious pychic alien walking around and people start acting different. One you can do litteraly nothing about since you don't know it even exsists and the other has clues to point you to a possible if difficult solution.
LordofFail wrote:Schultz128 wrote:Do note, the only 1-shot in this game was me, and it wasn't because of Met's ability.
met 1-shot me after i failed 4 consecutive actions to kill him
I 100% agree that the forecast ability has counter play since you cant litteraly spam it enough to get nat 20's on demand and it takes high end gear to one shot. The roll a 1 ability and die while certainly balanced is not something anyone can know of, therefor it lacks counterplay.
The reason a One Shot could be seen as undesirable game design without adding in counterplay to it is as such, is it takes away player agency. If for no fault of your own you can just instantly die at anytime, why even bother?
I mean if nothing you do can effect the outcome then whats the point? It's simply not fun and we play VLDR to enjoy ourselves. The reason counterplay solves this is by allowing the other player the chance to do something about their impending doom you keep player agency intact.
And sure a power MAY have a hidden counter, but what use is that to the man who has zero knowledge of it or zero ways to learn of it? Nothing. One needs Knowledge and ability to counter something.
What I said on one shots and counter play is also relevant but to a lessar degree to all abilities. If you can do something and no one else can do jack shit about it then theirs zero agency in it. It may as well be gravity.
The main issue with the roll a 1 ability in combat and die is their is no reasonable way to exspect it and no resonable way to counter it in turn because of this. Not letting a random character ever near you or immediatly killing them is not something someone could naturely and logicaly do on their own. I honestly don't think anything unfair happened with your ability but I'm more speaking on hypothetically how unfair and bullshit it could have been.
I'm not saying what your saying. A Oneshot does not need to be perfect to be unfair, infact it work once out of 20 times and STILL be unfair. Any senario in which no character could have reasonably forscene or done something about and can one shot you is not fun.
Again I'm NOT saying dying makes it pointless to play but that having no choice or agency in your own outcome does.
The overwelmingly stronger character being basically unstopable is true and a problem with both gamedesign and gameplay. Is LoF an example of this? I don't think so honestly. Most players abilties and stats were atleast on a somewhat even playing flied if used correctly.
Is it fine to have SOME completly hidden abilities? Yes but rarely and it should be not considered lightly. Really in most cases I'd prefer if the ability had atleast the slightest hint of it's exsistence if only in flavor text.
TheNiceOne16 wrote:Is it fine to have SOME completly hidden abilities? Yes but rarely and it should be not considered lightly. Really in most cases I'd prefer if the ability had atleast the slightest hint of it's exsistence if only in flavor text.
I think I know why I got buthurt yesterday. Your pointing out flaws in my thinking but their not really flaws because their straight up not what I'm saying. But thats less maliciousness and more me failing to get my point across. Anyways sorry, I'll keep trying to clairfy as needed.
Nellyfox wrote:TheNiceOne16 wrote:Is it fine to have SOME completly hidden abilities? Yes but rarely and it should be not considered lightly. Really in most cases I'd prefer if the ability had atleast the slightest hint of it's exsistence if only in flavor text.
Next game I will give you the evil dude and post the rolecard publicly, if that is not acceptable then I will allow players to roll INT and if they roll high enough they will get fancy flavortext saying "Something is off about The Nice One..."
Not only does this buff INT, but it also means your inevitable insane abilities (which are in place to help your absurd wincon) are to be expected and people can prepare as they need to.
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