EvilPudding wrote:Interesting idea and it is balanced like the WW
/support
-This role can not be remembered by an Amnesiac.
Mafia night chat.
EvilPudding wrote:Interesting idea and it is balanced like the WW
/support
Soulshade55r wrote:So underboss but being Deception? it would make more sense being support...
Nah I like underboss but it should be "Mafia Head" and should not be made unless they change mafia into tactical.
Also mafioso should be able to remember any mafia.
This is too overpowered for a normal mafia role if it was Mafia head I'd understand...
/No support sorry :c
EvilPudding wrote:Interesting idea and it is balanced like the WW
/support
Blackwolfe99 wrote:Soulshade55r wrote:So underboss but being Deception? it would make more sense being support...
Nah I like underboss but it should be "Mafia Head" and should not be made unless they change mafia into tactical.
Also mafioso should be able to remember any mafia.
This is too overpowered for a normal mafia role if it was Mafia head I'd understand...
/No support sorry :c
I never knew there was such a role as Underboss. As long as I've been playing Town of Salem, I used to rarely visit the forums until last year around April, I think, so I had never heard of Forum Mafia or most of the roles that are in it.
EvilPudding wrote:Interesting idea and it is balanced like the WW
/support
Blackwolfe99 wrote:Two questions for anyone who cares to answer them.
1) Should I keep it the Execution as a threat or should I make it more like Underboss whose execution overrides the factional mafia kill?
2) If the execution should override the factional kill, should this role continue to be called Warden or change it to Underboss?
Soulshade55r wrote:Blackwolfe99 wrote:Two questions for anyone who cares to answer them.
1) Should I keep it the Execution as a threat or should I make it more like Underboss whose execution overrides the factional mafia kill?
2) If the execution should override the factional kill, should this role continue to be called Warden or change it to Underboss?
Personally I like the name warden better, I'd go with Interrogator or Kidnapper aswell, but stick with warden it's a cool name
It should be able to kill, but Protective roles should be able to still protect against it and it would only do basic attack, and being the Mafia factional kill
This is why a lot of people want to change the way Mafia kills for example any Mafia can give up there night action to kill for example consigilere can do the night kill all the other Mafia can too they just can't perform there normal action, changing Mafioso into a Mafia Amnesiac/can copy Mafia abilitys and Godfather will be immune still to Sheriff but also gains feedback on every Mafias night action
This would make Mafia use there abilities better for example if a Janitor used all there cleanings but a Consigliere became Mafioso that means there is one Mafia member just sat there doing nothing, but with tactical no Mafia will become Mafioso because they can perform the kill without a mafios/gf
Also side note: Investigatior will find it hard to find the last Mafia out because there results change
EvilPudding wrote:Interesting idea and it is balanced like the WW
/support
Mystoc: I understand all of your concerns, if you have any other ideas besides the maximum uses let me know. There are a few things I want to address though, it becomes too easily confirmed if Amnesiac remembers the role, and I did say that if the Warden doesn't perform their day ability, then they may speak to the mafia. This means that they can not speak to the Mafia and their prisoner at the same time.
Mystoc wrote:Mystoc: I understand all of your concerns, if you have any other ideas besides the maximum uses let me know. There are a few things I want to address though, it becomes too easily confirmed if Amnesiac remembers the role, and I did say that if the Warden doesn't perform their day ability, then they may speak to the mafia. This means that they can not speak to the Mafia and their prisoner at the same time.
you shouldn't limit amnesiacs choices just because its a dumb choice to do, even if people dont beilve your the real jailor your still rbing them that night even rb immune roles. you made unrememberable because the role would be too strong if 2 of it were allowed in 1 game
in fact amnesiac remembering this would be fine rbing someone each night is enough reason to do so. this would also make people not trust the real jailor if they knew for sure there was a warden in the game, town would be like im not telling you my role i don't trust you
EvilPudding wrote:Interesting idea and it is balanced like the WW
/support
EvilPudding wrote:Interesting idea and it is balanced like the WW
/support
Mystoc wrote:still a stronger version of consort, its OP in that regard, makes consort redundant and unneeded as well this does consorts job 10x better
if a role is gonna be jailor it needs to be a solo role not one with a team, i did recently suggest a jailor rework did you see it? i don't remember
ManateeDude wrote:Mystoc wrote:still a stronger version of consort, its OP in that regard, makes consort redundant and unneeded as well this does consorts job 10x better
if a role is gonna be jailor it needs to be a solo role not one with a team, i did recently suggest a jailor rework did you see it? i don't remember
Thats why its Mafia Head it's meant to be OP. Quick question, can capo retrain a role into this?
Mystoc wrote:ManateeDude wrote:Mystoc wrote:still a stronger version of consort, its OP in that regard, makes consort redundant and unneeded as well this does consorts job 10x better
if a role is gonna be jailor it needs to be a solo role not one with a team, i did recently suggest a jailor rework did you see it? i don't remember
Thats why its Mafia Head it's meant to be OP. Quick question, can capo retrain a role into this?
if its mafia head that means it has a team, which is OP, what was trying to say is if their gonna be fake jailor role it needs to a solo role, this role is too OP with a team, also its just a better consort that's guaranteed to be in every game, this isn't the right way to fix jailor
EvilPudding wrote:Interesting idea and it is balanced like the WW
/support
Mystoc wrote:ManateeDude wrote:Mystoc wrote:still a stronger version of consort, its OP in that regard, makes consort redundant and unneeded as well this does consorts job 10x better
if a role is gonna be jailor it needs to be a solo role not one with a team, i did recently suggest a jailor rework did you see it? i don't remember
Thats why its Mafia Head it's meant to be OP. Quick question, can capo retrain a role into this?
if its mafia head that means it has a team, which is OP, what was trying to say is if their gonna be fake jailor role it needs to a solo role, this role is too OP with a team, also its just a better consort that's guaranteed to be in every game, this isn't the right way to fix jailor
One: Mystoc, no. By your logic we shouldn't have jailor.
Also I did see your idea, I remember telling you it was swingy and unbalanced.
i have changed it more since then never said there shouldnt be jailor just that your change wasn't the right approach
Two: Manatee is absolutely right, it's power justifies a Mafia Head. Not to mention, THIS IS ALSO AN FM ROLE. Thanks to Soulshade, I now know about Underboss, reworked my concept to fit it and submitted it to TG.just cause its from FM doesn't means its balanced or fair for town of salem, in thrones of lies all of evil factions convert and that a huge nono in ToS, different games are different
And no Manatee, if I remember correctly Capo can't retrain Mafia into Unique roles which this is.
Three: It's not guaranteed to be in every game, and unlike Jailor it can't take its own members to protect them, so that is a weakness to it. Not to mention as a Tactical Mafia role, it can forgo the imprison part to just kill or take the Mafia's factional kill to kill the imprisoned target.mafia head sounds like a leader role to me Godfather leads mafia and is in every game you can see why i would think this role is in every game, and just becasue its not in every game doesnt mean its balanced or fair, also still no comment on how this is just a better consort?
it can forgo the imprison part to just kill or take the Mafia's factional kill to kill the imprisoned target.how can it kill people not in prison that makes no sense to me
EvilPudding wrote:Interesting idea and it is balanced like the WW
/support
Blackwolfe99 wrote:Manatee, you forgot GF. GF is Mafia Head as well.
Mystoc, do you know what Tactical Mafia is? If not, then shut up.
Also Godfather is certainly not in every game. There are plenty of single Mafioso games, especially in All Any, plus if they go with TM, they can change the guaranteed GF slot in Ranked for a MH slot and have multiple roles to fill it.
Also I have no response to it being a better Consort, because it's a poor argument. It's like saying Jailor is a better escort and leaving it at that.
EDIT: Forgot to address the FM part, it certainly is since it's a variant of the Town of Salem formula, designed to be longer and allow what amounts to cosmetic changes to many roles, and essential QoL changes to others.
Blackwolfe99 wrote:Manatee, you forgot GF. GF is Mafia Head as well.
Mystoc, do you know what Tactical Mafia is? If not, then shut up.
Also Godfather is certainly not in every game. There are plenty of single Mafioso games, especially in All Any, plus if they go with TM, they can change the guaranteed GF slot in Ranked for a MH slot and have multiple roles to fill it.
Also I have no response to it being a better Consort, because it's a poor argument. It's like saying Jailor is a better escort and leaving it at that.
EDIT: Forgot to address the FM part, it certainly is since it's a variant of the Town of Salem formula, designed to be longer and allow what amounts to cosmetic changes to many roles, and essential QoL changes to others.
EvilPudding wrote:Interesting idea and it is balanced like the WW
/support
how does it have more freedom jailor can just be escort and astraly roleblock anyone it wants each night, pressure of being an important role has nothing to do with escort / jailor being different roles, just cause a role is first doesnt mean its the one the that needs to stay
pirate is RNG since you have no way of knowing or guessing what the person will choice ,its less RNG then psychic but is RNG also not gonna argue about RNGness of pirate when we are discussing jailor
evil jailor can win with all evils like witch but none if its allies know if its evil or not (it has no teammates that will 100% side with it) evils aren't told at the start of the game if jailor is evil or good
its bolsters mafia's power to much that is the problem,
stop using other games has a reason why something can work (conversion is not allowed in ToS so the concept of an evil jailor works their cause the old jailor is now evil, your role doesn't do that) they to completely different types of games,
still haven't seen a reason why it needs a team none of the reasons you said are supportive to this
jailor has a team but no one knows who the jailor is at the start of the game, this role has 3 auto teammates who knows who they are right away and has private night chat with to to share the info it gets its too strong
Mystoc wrote:Escort isn't unneeded since it does what Jailor does with more freedom in terms of decision making and less pressure in making the right choice, plus it was actually in the Mafia/Social Deduction genre before the Jailor concept was.how does it have more freedom jailor can just be escort and astraly roleblock anyone it wants each night, pressure of being an important role has nothing to do with escort / jailor being different roles, just cause a role is first doesnt mean its the one the that needs to stay
Too have a weaker stopping power than Jailor with more mobility, plus more chances to spawn.
I like Pirate though, it's a fun role and it's NOT RNG, RNG IS RANDOM NUMBER GENERATION. Do not use an RNG argument until you understand what it means and how it applies. Psychic, however, is guided RNG, and is way too powerful.pirate is RNG since you have no way of knowing or guessing what the person will choice ,its less RNG then psychic but is RNG also not gonna argue about RNGness of pirate when we are discussing jailor
I literally just facepalmed reading this, you have no idea what RNG is. RNG is how we get our roles or Exes and GAs get targets, RNG is not a human aspect, it's a system aspect.
Ironically, last I checked of your evil Jailor, it had more allies than the Warden could ever have, although it was more like the actual Jailor in that it needed to find those allies, whereas Warden may have anywhere from none to three guaranteed and any number of Neutrals who would probably betray it for a more likely to win side. It still had more allies.evil jailor can win with all evils like witch but none if its allies know if its evil or not (it has no teammates that will 100% side with it) evils aren't told at the start of the game if jailor is evil or good
And yet is infinitely more powerful than Witch, your argument just fell flat.
Warden can have a team, because it's meant to bolster the Mafia's power in a similar fashion to the GF or Capo. Evil Jailor doesn't need to be a solo neutral, going to good old ToL. They used to have a Black Rose, now known as Unseen, Prince. However, unlike the Evil Prince, there can be a Jailor to put down the Warden should they figure out who the Warden is.its bolsters mafia's power to much that is the problem,
stop using other games has a reason why something can work (conversion is not allowed in ToS so the concept of an evil jailor works their cause the old jailor is now evil, your role doesn't do that) they to completely different types of games,
still haven't seen a reason why it needs a team none of the reasons you said are supportive to this
jailor has a team but no one knows who the jailor is at the start of the game, this role has 3 auto teammates who knows who they are right away its too strong
EvilPudding wrote:Interesting idea and it is balanced like the WW
/support
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