GodFocker wrote:This is amazing! Really detailed work, I think you should change the alignment of the Wannabe to Neutral Chaos, Neutral Evil just doesn't quite fit to me.
BlazinIce wrote:Ok, I can see you're new, so I'll explain why this role is bad.
A: Godfathers already immune, and you can only make mafioso immune
B: Neutral Evils shouldn't cheat mafia out of a win.
C: Neutral Evils should also win with NKs.
D: this role is extremely weak, because it makes one role immune. That's all.
E: Neutral Evils win with NKs and mafia, Neutral Benigns have to complete a goal, and Neutral Chaos is bad. Don't make NC roles.
Spectre0 wrote:Godfather's friggin immune m8
Also mafia doesn't need a protector
SomeCatchyName9 wrote:Spectre0 wrote:Godfather's friggin immune m8
Also mafia doesn't need a protector
I realised that in my previous post :p should I make this into a doc? A doc with a different goal and he knows who the gf is.
This isn't a Mafia protector. This is a hinderance for the Mafia, as they cannot win while he is alive. So the Mafia must get him lynched, and thus the "Protector" dies
Spectre0 wrote:
Ah, that makes far more sense.
Any role that can heal evils is overpowered because in lots of situations town relies heavily on the kills from vig/jailor. Making a mafia doctor is a bad idea, especially since a doctor who has to be lynched by maf to win has no actual motivation to help mafia. Sure, he needs them to survive, but revealing his presence only puts a target on his back from mafia anyway. A lot of wannabes would essentially play as a weaker survivor.
SomeCatchyName9 wrote:Spectre0 wrote:
Ah, that makes far more sense.
Any role that can heal evils is overpowered because in lots of situations town relies heavily on the kills from vig/jailor. Making a mafia doctor is a bad idea, especially since a doctor who has to be lynched by maf to win has no actual motivation to help mafia. Sure, he needs them to survive, but revealing his presence only puts a target on his back from mafia anyway. A lot of wannabes would essentially play as a weaker survivor.
Ohhhh I don't think the goal was clear enough, sorry!
Basically the Wannabe needs to be alive when Mafia win, but Mafia must kill the Wannabe, otherwjse they lose.
Honestly the main reason I like this role is its win condition. Apart from that even I can agree it needs some work.
Eg. If a Wannabe reveals, it will likely not be lynched by town as it isn't a threat to town, it's just a doctor.
Basically what I need to do is add something to this role that gives Town an incentive to lynch Wannabe claims. I was thinking maybe Mafia gets roleblocked the next night? But that may not be a good enough incentive. I'm struggling on this one.
If someone could help with this that would be great!
Spectre0 wrote:
I do understand how it wins, and I absolutely LOVE the concept of a role that needs a faction which wants to kill it (It has to help them, but covertly). Still, I feel like this isn't the way to do it. It's an amazing concept, though
Crazyzombie168 wrote:Yeah, roleblock anyone who visits the GF should work. But also, you should make it so it protects the Mafioso if there is no GF in-game (so it is not role dependent... kinda)
I like the concept of this role. I think mafia having a secret helper is neat. I think you should make it unable to whisper to the Mafioso/GF, so the mafia don't auto know a helper. Surely there can be a Spy, but it can still happen.
BlazinIce wrote:This should be neutral benign
SilenceHacker wrote:No for a thousand reasons. We don't need a role dependent on the existence of another role. Secondly, This role isn't Benign if it can't choose sides. Thirdly.... It's.... just..... Bad.
twelvethousandants wrote:This seems incredibly difficult to win as.
It's like an entire faction comprised of a single person.
This role looks like it needs another role (ergo, a townie) kingmaker to help it win - to choose the Wannabe over the mafia.
In every single situation I can think of, it involves the Town/NB/NE choosing to let the Wannabe win over the mafia.
I feel uncomfortable with it.
I also feel that if incentive was given to the Town to lynch the Wannabe, it would make the Wannabe win chance close to none, since the Town would then choose to lynch the Wannabe for whatever incentive it provides rather than letting the Wannabe win.
SomeCatchyName9 wrote:twelvethousandants wrote:This seems incredibly difficult to win as.
It's like an entire faction comprised of a single person.
This role looks like it needs another role (ergo, a townie) kingmaker to help it win - to choose the Wannabe over the mafia.
In every single situation I can think of, it involves the Town/NB/NE choosing to let the Wannabe win over the mafia.
I feel uncomfortable with it.
I also feel that if incentive was given to the Town to lynch the Wannabe, it would make the Wannabe win chance close to none, since the Town would then choose to lynch the Wannabe for whatever incentive it provides rather than letting the Wannabe win.
This is my biggest concern too. Wow it's a tough one
For Wannabe to win:
Mafia must be alive
Mafia must not know identity of Wannabe.
Therefore Town must not know identity of Wannabe.
Therefore it must not be known at all that there is a Wannabe. In any way.
The first thing I can do is make it completely Investigator immune. So investigators and consigs can't find it. Perhaps the Wannabe could disguise as someone each night, to make it investigation immune.
Next, I think I need to remove its guard ability. I fear it would make the Wannabe's identity known too easily.
So I guess what I could do is remove the guard ability and replace it with the disguise.
To make the Wannabe's presence even more secret, I could put it into Neutral Chaos, so it will only be in games where there is an Any. This will also solve this ongoing alignment problem, as the Wannabe doesn't seem to fit any alignment currently.
In conclusion...
Rename Neutral Chaos to Neutral Secret, or Unknown, or something secretive like that.
Put the Wannabe into this new alignment
Change Wannabe guard ability to the Disguise ability.
Thoughts?
GodFocker wrote:
That sounds a bit better!
frop418 wrote:FMLSheWas12 wrote:frop418 wrote:What do you guys find scummy about Sevo?
What do you think of S0me0ne's opinion on Sevo?
He pointed a lot of interesting points.
TheWolfBuddy wrote:Ahh a survivor that can only win with the mafia, can't vest, and the mafia have reason to murderkill?!
No thanks!!
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