Gamethrowing - Apparently a discussion on discord

[TGambitG]

People have been claiming that Shapesifter has been saying on discord that not claiming on the stand as town is not gamethrowing.

We need hard clarification on this, and if true, why, as it goes against what TurdPile says in this post:

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=14540

Would devs/mods please weigh in on this?

[TGambitG]

Also, I think we need a post on the forums that explicitly lays out what actions constitute gamethrowing. Because this BS has to stop.

[TGambitG]

Home shape is right.. how can u gamethrow if ur still tryna win? game would be much better without restrictions or at least like label em instead of relying on common sense

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Gracee]

TurdPile is our God. Shapesifter13 has no power here, or anywhere. We follow TurdPile.

[WittyRecluse]

It is true to anyone with half a brain that not claiming on the stand will get you lynched and thus lower town's chances of winning. Example here, where I used this "strategy" as jailor and got lynched for it: http://www.blankmediagames.com/Trial/vi ... id=1081057


Unfortunately, Shapesifter and the other devs have decided that this gamethrowing is now allowed, so expect the quality of your games to plummet now.

The admins and mods, however, are still enforcing the rule that not claiming on the stand is gamethrowing because they, unlike the devs, care about the game.

[Gracee]

https://imgur.com/a/bMXJE

I found these posts wandering around in the communityserver.

[Moltac]

Hello, coming from the trial server just to defend Shapesifter13's actions.
From now on not claiming on stand will no longer be punished as gamethrowing, as it is not duty to follow dumbass VFR-Noobs. You can do whatever you want. Your strategy may be to not claim in order to avoid Witches/Mafias/NKs to be on your tail. Thank you for your understanding. The entire high elo community is supporting this decision.


Kindest regards.

[Chancell0r]

https://www.reddit.com/r/TownofSalemgam ... d_as_town/

[AtwaGG]

To counter VFR, it is not AGAINST THE RULES to claim on stand.

[TGambitG]

https://imgur.com/a/bMXJE

I found these posts wandering around in the communityserver.

Ok..

Here's where the issue is... shapesifter according to that picture is saying that "not participating in VFR is not reportable"... Which I 100% agree with.

HOWEVER. Not participating in VFR is NOT refusing to claim on the stand. It's simply not voting people up when VFR is happening.

Not claiming on the stand IS 2000% GAMETHROWING.

Not claiming on the stand is detrimental to town and therefore gamethrowing.

Not participating in VFR is perfectly fine. But once you are on the stand it's no longer VFR. It's time to defend yourself.

People are taking what shapesifter said and applying their own meaning to it. He DID NOT say that not defending yourself on the stand is not reportable, only that not participating in VFR is not reportable.

[Moltac]

But that is exactly what he intended with this. We talked to him on the trial server and this is what it went down to. He said that not claiming on stand is no longer a reportable offense.

[Chancell0r]

https://imgur.com/a/bMXJE

I found these posts wandering around in the communityserver.

Ok..

Here's where the issue is... shapesifter according to that picture is saying that "not participating in VFR is not reportable"... Which I 100% agree with.

HOWEVER. Not participating in VFR is NOT refusing to claim on the stand. It's simply not voting people up when VFR is happening.

Not claiming on the stand IS 2000% GAMETHROWING.

Not claiming on the stand is detrimental to town and therefore gamethrowing.

Not participating in VFR is perfectly fine. But once you are on the stand it's no longer VFR. It's time to defend yourself.

People are taking what shapesifter said and applying their own meaning to it. He DID NOT say that not defending yourself on the stand is not reportable, only that not participating in VFR is not reportable.

yeah dw i used that argument + plenty of others, turdpile told all judges to keep suspending people for not claiming so i think we're fine

[TGambitG]

yeah dw i used that argument + plenty of others, turdpile told all judges to keep suspending people for not claiming so i think we're fine

I 100% agree with suspending/banning players who refuse to claim on the stand.

I 100% disagree for suspending/banning players who refuse to participate in VFR.

If you can't tell the difference between not participating in VFR and not claiming on the stand, you're out of touch. (I say "you" not meaning you personally, just the general "you")

[WittyRecluse]

https://imgur.com/a/bMXJE

I found these posts wandering around in the communityserver.

Ok..

Here's where the issue is... shapesifter according to that picture is saying that "not participating in VFR is not reportable"... Which I 100% agree with.

HOWEVER. Not participating in VFR is NOT refusing to claim on the stand. It's simply not voting people up when VFR is happening.

Not claiming on the stand IS 2000% GAMETHROWING.

Not claiming on the stand is detrimental to town and therefore gamethrowing.

Not participating in VFR is perfectly fine. But once you are on the stand it's no longer VFR. It's time to defend yourself.

People are taking what shapesifter said and applying their own meaning to it. He DID NOT say that not defending yourself on the stand is not reportable, only that not participating in VFR is not reportable.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachment ... /image.png

[TGambitG]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachment ... /image.png

Oh. My. GOD.

He can't be THAT out of touch can he?

[mdb1023]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachment ... /image.png

Oh. My. GOD.

He can't be THAT out of touch can he?

This is the stupidest fucking shit I have ever seen. How can the devs be that fucking stupid!? Not claiming on the stand is gamethrowing EVERY TIME if you're not a jester. THIS shit is why I stopped playing this game! Now it's going to be filled with even more people throwing on the stand. Guarantee that I'm not going to play this game again any time soon. Absolute fucking shit.

[TGambitG]

Maybe someone should put this in the FAQ forum... Feel free to suggest additions

Things that ARE gamethrowing (gamethrowing as defined by TurdPile: Gamethrowing is when the player is actively going against their roles' goal.)

Outing a member of the mafia without it being a planned strategy agreed on.

Not claiming a role on the stand, even as Jester.

Intenionally killing a known member of your faction. (jailor executing, vigilante shooting)

Intentionally voting up a member of your faction, knowing they are a member of your faction, especially for spite. (exception for this, voting up a mafia knowing they are caught. Or helping an Executioner when town has clear and inviolate majority)

Intentionally not voting to 'help a friend' or other such nonsense.

Leaving a game while alive when your faction still has a chance to win.

Going AFK in a ranked match.

Any action that would make your current faction lose when there is a chance for a win OR a draw.

--------

Things that are NOT gamethrowing:

Errors in judgement.

Stupidity.

Not voting due to confusion.

Not participating in VFR (specifically the voting stage, you're on the stand, you claim)

[Exacerbated]

I've gotten off trial innocent without claiming before.

But to be fair, this is back when there were unlimited trials and they just kept sending me up and voting me down over and over again so that they could get a good read on me.

With a max 3 a day, you're better off just getting claims and playing PoE simulator.

[Amythyr]

I agree with TP actually. Dunno what shape was smoking when he said that.

What should be GT imo:

• Not Claiming on Stat: Logic is simple-If you don't claim, you will get lynched.This hurts your team.So GT
• Asking for TP/lookout, then Baiting. You will kill only town 90% of time when using this strategy.
• Not voting people up when you can vote and win(during last few days) provided you are not afk. Also Voting someone up and innoing them, then losing due to trolling comes under this.
• Revealing other mafia/Coven(Bussing is an exception)
• Not doing anything entire game. Eg not jailing as jailor(provided he is not afk)
• Intentionally going afk or leaving. Example: Claiming that you hate your role and leaving
• Working with town and against other evils as an evil
• Shooting/Executing confirmed townies.
• Revealing VIP
• Killing your lover/lynching him
• And anything that leads to loss of your current faction

[X8ser]

Maybe someone should put this in the FAQ forum... Feel free to suggest additions

Things that ARE gamethrowing (gamethrowing as defined by TurdPile: Gamethrowing is when the player is actively going against their roles' goal.)

Outing a member of the mafia without it being a planned strategy agreed on.

Not claiming a role on the stand, even as Jester.

Intenionally killing a known member of your faction. (jailor executing, vigilante shooting)

Intentionally voting up a member of your faction, knowing they are a member of your faction, especially for spite. (exception for this, voting up a mafia knowing they are caught. Or helping an Executioner when town has clear and inviolate majority)

Intentionally not voting to 'help a friend' or other such nonsense.

Leaving a game while alive when your faction still has a chance to win.

Going AFK in a ranked match.

Any action that would make your current faction lose when there is a chance for a win OR a draw.

--------

Things that are NOT gamethrowing:

Errors in judgement.

Stupidity.

Not voting due to confusion.

Not participating in VFR (specifically the voting stage, you're on the stand, you claim)

How exactly is not claiming on stand when you're jester gamethrowing? Jesters WANT to look suspicious and be lynched. It's not gamethrowing if what you're doing helps your faction.

[TGambitG]

I agree with TP actually. Dunno what shape was smoking when he said that.

What should be GT imo:

• Not Claiming on Stat: Logic is simple-If you don't claim, you will get lynched.This hurts your team.So GT
• Asking for TP/lookout, then Baiting. You will kill only town 90% of time when using this strategy.
• Not voting people up when you can vote and win(during last few days) provided you are not afk. Also Voting someone up and innoing them, then losing due to trolling comes under this.
• Revealing other mafia/Coven(Bussing is an exception)
• Not doing anything entire game. Eg not jailing as jailor(provided he is not afk)
• Intentionally going afk or leaving. Example: Claiming that you hate your role and leaving
• Working with town and against other evils as an evil
• Shooting/Executing confirmed townies.
• Revealing VIP
• Killing your lover/lynching him
• And anything that leads to loss of your current faction

On working with townies as an evil... An exception to this could be Exe/Jester working with town on a promise of them helping them win as well. Though this is a very risky strategy, and can very possibly backfire. NEs in the form of Exe and Jester are not bound to help Mafia/NK/Coven win.

[ObiWanCumnobi]

https://imgur.com/a/bMXJE

I found these posts wandering around in the communityserver.

Ok..

Here's where the issue is... shapesifter according to that picture is saying that "not participating in VFR is not reportable"... Which I 100% agree with.

HOWEVER. Not participating in VFR is NOT refusing to claim on the stand. It's simply not voting people up when VFR is happening.

Not claiming on the stand IS 2000% GAMETHROWING.

Not claiming on the stand is detrimental to town and therefore gamethrowing.

Not participating in VFR is perfectly fine. But once you are on the stand it's no longer VFR. It's time to defend yourself.

People are taking what shapesifter said and applying their own meaning to it. He DID NOT say that not defending yourself on the stand is not reportable, only that not participating in VFR is not reportable.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachment ... /image.png

Is Shape even playing the same game?

[TGambitG]

How exactly is not claiming on stand when you're jester gamethrowing? Jesters WANT to look suspicious and be lynched. It's not gamethrowing if what you're doing helps your faction.

Because not claiming as jester means you are jester if all other roles are forced to claim, thus making town inno you, and having a vigi/jailor kill you.

[YamiChan]

The thing with gamethrowing, is that it's subjective. It's impossible for mods or judges to know what a player is thinking, and I know I'm tired of being suspended for gamethrowing when I try a perfectly valid strategy and it doesn't work out.

Sure, if you get voted up on the stand and refuse to say ANYTHING, and you're not Jester, I could see that being called throwing. But if I get voted up for no valid reason, I think it's a perfectly valid strategy to refuse to claim and point out that I was voted up for no reason. If you're role is too important to expose, people say lie, but then if you're, say Mayor, and claim Medium, and someone counterclaims or an Invest speaks up and you get killed, suddenly you're gamethrowing anyway. And if your lie is ever discovered later, no one believes you when you claim your real role. I think it's smarter to try arguing against being forced to out your real role. If I do that, I'm still trying to win. I just believe that claiming a real or even a fake role will hurt my team's chances.

[Amythyr]

I agree with TP actually. Dunno what shape was smoking when he said that.

What should be GT imo:

• Not Claiming on Stat: Logic is simple-If you don't claim, you will get lynched.This hurts your team.So GT
• Asking for TP/lookout, then Baiting. You will kill only town 90% of time when using this strategy.
• Not voting people up when you can vote and win(during last few days) provided you are not afk. Also Voting someone up and innoing them, then losing due to trolling comes under this.
• Revealing other mafia/Coven(Bussing is an exception)
• Not doing anything entire game. Eg not jailing as jailor(provided he is not afk)
• Intentionally going afk or leaving. Example: Claiming that you hate your role and leaving
• Working with town and against other evils as an evil
• Shooting/Executing confirmed townies.
• Revealing VIP
• Killing your lover/lynching him
• And anything that leads to loss of your current faction

On working with townies as an evil... An exception to this could be Exe/Jester working with town on a promise of them helping them win as well. Though this is a very risky strategy, and can very possibly backfire. NEs in the form of Exe and Jester are not bound to help Mafia/NK/Coven win.

I agree with Jester & Exe being an exception. But witch can throw by working with town(and i have seen them doing exactly that)