Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

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Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

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Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby Wzombie » Sun May 08, 2016 7:14 pm

I have heard varying opinions, but I want an overall view of what the forums thinks.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby PrinceofNeway » Sun May 08, 2016 7:28 pm

If they cause harm they are different neutrals. It's the very definition of "benign". Silly question.

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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby Kittenn1011 » Sun May 08, 2016 7:38 pm

I said, "yes"... but define "harmless"? Harmless to whom? By design only or are you asking whether or not they should chose to be harmless?

My opinion is that NB should be designed so they aren't OBLIGATED to be harmful to any particular side over any other.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby PrinceofNeway » Sun May 08, 2016 7:44 pm

Kittenn1011 wrote:I said, "yes"... but define "harmless"? Harmless to whom? By design only or are you asking whether or not they should chose to be harmless?

My opinion is that NB should be designed so they aren't OBLIGATED to be harmful to any particular side over any other.



I'd assume harmless in this game to mean unable to kill or negatively affect another player directly during a night phase and/or winnable with a large majority of if not all factions.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby Wzombie » Sun May 08, 2016 8:06 pm

PrinceofNeway wrote:
Kittenn1011 wrote:I said, "yes"... but define "harmless"? Harmless to whom? By design only or are you asking whether or not they should chose to be harmless?

My opinion is that NB should be designed so they aren't OBLIGATED to be harmful to any particular side over any other.



I'd assume harmless in this game to mean unable to kill or negatively affect another player directly during a night phase and/or winnable with a large majority of if not all factions.

That. Basically I'm asking, do neutral Benigns have to be useless?
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VucubCaquix wrote:Our juice was already diluted with water. More water has been added, but the juice has long been too watery for a parrot like me to drink. And thus, nothing was truly changed.

-These words of wisdom are about the influx of new players brought upon us by the YouTubers.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby PrinceofNeway » Sun May 08, 2016 8:17 pm

Harmless =/= Useless
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby Wzombie » Sun May 08, 2016 8:19 pm

PrinceofNeway wrote:Harmless =/= Useless

Ik, I'm just poking fun at the NBs
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VucubCaquix wrote:Our juice was already diluted with water. More water has been added, but the juice has long been too watery for a parrot like me to drink. And thus, nothing was truly changed.

-These words of wisdom are about the influx of new players brought upon us by the YouTubers.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby SpellChecker » Mon May 09, 2016 2:58 am

They aren't actually harmless, they are just extra vote.
Last edited by SpellChecker on Mon May 09, 2016 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
  
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby Technetium » Mon May 09, 2016 3:30 am

They don't have to be harmless, they just have to be capable of siding with anyone.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby sweetapples9 » Mon May 09, 2016 7:30 am

I wish they were "harmless". I played a game yesterday where the mafia killed a town member and cleaned them. The medium then talked to that member and then died the next day and put in their will that the cleaned town member was a Lookout and I disguised as them. Everyone when against me and got me lynched. I was veteran and there was already a "proven" vig so I was fucked. I was in fact veteran and then in dead chat I asked why df did he frame me as a disguiser. He said he just did it at random and he was LO.

At the end of the game it was found out that he was the Amne that picked me randomly and got my lynched and let the mafia win. That was the highlight of the game and everyone was mad at the amne, expect mafia of course.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby dota2reporter » Mon May 09, 2016 8:40 am

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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby air3000 » Mon May 09, 2016 8:58 am

They're neutral for a reason. Amnesiac's turning into Arsonist's would be very harmful to opposing players. Lol.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby VoidRuler » Mon May 09, 2016 9:29 am

I try to be harmless as a Neutral Benign to avoid being killed off, especially in the situation of an Arson/WW that can kill me out of spite.

But if a side is really doing that bad, then I might try to help them out. I've gotten Towns lynched as Survivor to help out the Mafia before. And alternatively, I've tried to help Town lynch pretty blatant scum.

I don't think they have to be harmless, but more often than not unless they're the deciding vote, they often are.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby Wzombie » Mon May 09, 2016 11:24 am

Well, I meant this as in, when you make NB Role Ideas, do they have to be harmless, not do you have to be timid as a NB in-game. This is just for poll/discussion, i was just curious what people thought.
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VucubCaquix wrote:Our juice was already diluted with water. More water has been added, but the juice has long been too watery for a parrot like me to drink. And thus, nothing was truly changed.

-These words of wisdom are about the influx of new players brought upon us by the YouTubers.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby SarahSaurus » Mon May 09, 2016 11:27 am

If you have a tumor that's causing harm, it's not benign. If you have a tumor thats chillin there, not affecting anything, it's benign.

However, nothing is really "harmless" in this game. NB roles still end up having to pick a side, which means they are directly/indirectly harming SOMEONE in the game.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby VoidRuler » Mon May 09, 2016 11:46 am

Wzombie wrote:Well, I meant this as in, when you make NB Role Ideas, do they have to be harmless, not do you have to be timid as a NB in-game. This is just for poll/discussion, i was just curious what people thought.

I didn't realize that was the intent of the thread.
I thought you meant whether or not they should just do nothing or actively/at least a little bit help out a side in-game.

In which case of the actual purpose of this thread, obviously yes because that's what benign means.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby Raetah » Mon May 09, 2016 2:02 pm

No, Neutral Benigns don't have be Harmless.

And they are not. If you think that Survivor is harmless you have never seen me playing Survivor. I have obliterated Town and Mafia as Survivor.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby PrinceofNeway » Mon May 09, 2016 2:14 pm

Use your brain guys this thread is clearly in reference to direct violence (being able to cause a night kill). We know already that it is inherent that a neutral benign is a havoc-wreaking swing vote in any game they manage to survive in, but that's not "harm" as posed by the OP- it's only verbal/voting power.

The second an Amne picks a role he is neither benign (unless he has become benign town) nor an Amne. Amnes themselves cannot harm directly- future kills have to be attributed to their selected role.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby Raetah » Mon May 09, 2016 2:53 pm

PrinceofNeway wrote:Use your brain guys this thread is clearly in reference to direct violence (being able to cause a night kill). We know already that it is inherent that a neutral benign is a havoc-wreaking swing vote in any game they manage to survive in, but that's not "harm" as posed by the OP- it's only verbal/voting power.

The second an Amne picks a role he is neither benign (unless he has become benign town) nor an Amne. Amnes themselves cannot harm directly- future kills have to be attributed to their selected role.

My playstyle as Survivor goes beyond a simplier voter, Im telling you that I literally destroyed entire factions with my bare hands as Survivor. I dont need a night Kill to do that.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby MisaTange » Mon May 09, 2016 4:08 pm

I've seen Survivors lead and carry the Town, which is probably how Rae plays Survivor. No way they are 100% harmless; I define Neutral Benigns as roles that can change sides very quickly.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby jld3221 » Mon May 09, 2016 4:27 pm

Technically, they are harmless in the sense that they can't kill. However, they are an extra vote that is crucial to determining who wins.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby Kittenn1011 » Mon May 09, 2016 7:51 pm

Okay, in light of further clarification:

I think survivors should not be obliged to be harmful to any particular over another, or all factions at the same time, and their night abilities shouldn't cause them to do things that are more helpful or harmful to one side over another, keeping in mind most night actions that involve others will most often involve town members, who have the majority.
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby Mindslayer » Mon May 09, 2016 7:56 pm

harmless to town? survivor doesn't have to see the town lose, and doesn't have any night abilities to interfere with town. amnesiac is harmless until it chooses an evil role like ne, nk, nc, or maf where he must go against the town in some way (kind of exception to jester). other than that, nb's are just... there

likewise, surv poses no threat to scum, and only when an amnesiac picks town will it be harmful in some way to the evils.

of course in actual games they have to pick a side, so they're not truly harmless
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Re: Do Neutral Benigns Have to be Harmless?

Postby TheChosenOne095 » Tue May 10, 2016 12:07 am

Technetium wrote:They don't have to be harmless, they just have to be capable of siding with anyone.


Those are Neutrals in general. I'd say that in order for a role to be NB they must not be a direct or indirect threat to town nor mafia.
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