Why Do People Always Throw?

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Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby angelwolf22 » Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:39 pm

No like... seriously. Why?

Some guy literally admitted to throwing to "farm reports from angry people". Some guy named Loli Defender. Like... What even is Town of Salem anymore?
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby Joacgroso » Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:55 pm

I wish I could understand that. Keep in mind that those people are a minority, though. Most people don't gamethrow. I'm kinda curious about how their actual lives are.

I don't really think this is a new problem. As for the reasons, I suppose that's because ToS is one of the best games for trolling for the motives I listed in this post.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby SilverCruz » Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:35 pm

Two reasons, from what I've observed.

1 - It's easy.
2 - They find it more interesting than actually playing the game normally.

The first one is exclusively the fault of Ads For Play. BMG says "We gotta stop being free to play to stop bad actors", but then says "Oh, actually, bad actors are fine as long as they give us ad bucks." by introducing Ads For Play. The Facebook requirement is not enough of a deterrent. The ads are not enough of a deterrent. The only way you can stop it from being easy is to completely get rid of Ads For Play, replace it with Ads For Coven Tickets or Ads For Scrolls if you must. Grandson the accounts that exist and have played a game but which don't have Premium accounts so that they can play indefinitely without it, same as the Grandfathers of the Free to Play era, but once that's over, actually lock the damn door. I also sent them an email about Ads For Play weeks ago and never got a response, so... BMG's head seems to be on a fantastic voyage exploring the innermost reaches of its intestinal tract, so far as I've noticed.

The second is just a symptom of the game being boring. I, personally, don't want to go play All Any just to maybe see an Arsonist. I like there being a level of structure to what's going on. That said, Classic and unranked are stale. Classic is intentionally severely lopsided in favor of the town from having only two roles that aren't completely static, one of which can only ever be Vigilante or Veteran, the Serial Killer is a Designated Idiot who can't hide behind the possibility of a different Neutral Killing to stay undercover, and the Mafia has its boring Godfather and Mafioso and a boring Framer, plus the static Executioner and Jester make their plays too predictable. Unranked has more non-static roles, but it's still boring. No Neutral Killing means that the status quo never changes and the Jailor can just always claim on Day 1 because there's never going to be an Arsonist or to a lesser extent Werewolf to fuck them up. Static Executioner means its plays are too predictable, static Witch has no cover to duck behind (can't have a second Witch get lynched, can't rely on the Mafia having a Forger and deciding to forge somebody as a Witch to take heat off you) so it's forced to play hyper-aggressively, plus Framer just feels awful and Hypnotist and Disguiser are insanely self-destructive, the game balance is completely screwed up in general (Jailor is overpowered, Bodyguard is overpowered, Transporter is overpowered, Escort waffles between basically useless and overpowered, Framer is a jobber, Hypnotist and Disguiser are self-sabotaging...), and overall the times this game produces a good experience from trying to play it as intended are really, really drowned out by the times it's completely unfair and uninteresting. Oh, the Godfather got jailed Night 1 and the Mafioso quit without declaring an attack, so the Jailor is going to spam-jail the Godfather until the other Mafia are lynched off. I guess the Mafia just loses now unless the Godfather also quits, but if you quit while you're alive you're a bad person somehow even if not quitting would guarantee your team's failure barring a miracle of the Witch having a Vigilante or an Ambusher managing to get more than one kill without getting instantly lynched.

So yeah. That's the gist of it. I saw a round recently where a very special Ann Hibbins was an Escort. Had the Godfather deadlocked and everything, but was acting so insanely erratic that they got lynched even when it was a standoff of them and a Vigilante with no shots left versus the Godfather and a spent Forger. They could've forced a draw, or even won had they not gotten as many townies lynched as they did and just focused, but they chose not to because they thought it was more interesting than it would've been if they had just played it straight. The problem is they were right. I was a Framer in that game, I got knocked out immediately because I Jailor Claimed on account of being in a foul mood, and the rest of the Mafia managed to land an all-or-nothing attack against the real Jailor, forging them as a Sheriff, because the Doctor bought my claim and went for me on Night 1. Sure, a Lookout caught them, but they managed to shoot the Lookout and sweep that under the rug by forging them as Executioner (though realistically they should've gone for Jester as the forge). It was a messy, stupid round, but Ann Hibbins was right. It was way more interesting because of their disruption than it would've been if the had just deadlocked the Godfather, waited for the Investigator to find the known Forger, then lynched those two off. Of course, being a Framer and therefore benefiting from this nonsense colors my view, but the fact is that what happened in that round was more entertaining than it would've been if Ann Hibbins had been playing optimally.

I'm not saying I condone the actions of that Ann Hibbins, old Socrates, or any other bad actors, but I am saying that as long as they are openly allowed to do this because of Ads For Plays, they will keep doing it. As long as the game is boring and stale and they can't get a better experience out of playing it as intended, they will want to keep doing it. It may not be the only problem, but it is a severe problem that the service just sucks, and that's what BMG needs to fix. A Leaver Buster due for a joint release with the Reconnect Button and Spoony Movie will not fix that. A new game that nobody asked for or wanted will not fix that. Refusing to say more than a sentence a month to people will not fix that. Being afraid of dissatisfaction, labeling it all as "toxic" and refusing to respond to it will not fix that. BMG are not good developers. I'm sure they could be, but they just don't want to even try. They'd rather run away from this game and just let it passively soak ad bucks while they make something else and hope nobody notices the state of that new thing's predecessor.

If any of them read this, then I invite you to prove me wrong. Tell us what you're doing with this game and stop leaving us in the dark. We want to know what's going on.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby Joacgroso » Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:04 pm

Honestly, I don't think the reason behind all this trolling is as simple as "the game is boring". Nothing forces anyone to play this game, after all. Those people aren't here because it's the only way they can have fun playing this game, it's because they enjoy ruining other people's experiences for some reason, or at least that's how I see it. Maybe a psychologist could answer the question of their motive.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby Stiersquid » Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:16 am

People trow because they just want to see the world burn.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby SilverCruz » Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:42 am

Joacgroso wrote:Honestly, I don't think the reason behind all this trolling is as simple as "the game is boring". Nothing forces anyone to play this game, after all. Those people aren't here because it's the only way they can have fun playing this game, it's because they enjoy ruining other people's experiences for some reason, or at least that's how I see it. Maybe a psychologist could answer the question of their motive.


It's cheap entertainment. Why bother finding something else to do when you can just do this?

Dickery is intrinsic to the human experience.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby kyuss420 » Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:52 am

man, its great behind the $5 coven paywall.... suffer in peace plebs
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby Joacgroso » Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:49 am

SilverCruz wrote:
Joacgroso wrote:Honestly, I don't think the reason behind all this trolling is as simple as "the game is boring". Nothing forces anyone to play this game, after all. Those people aren't here because it's the only way they can have fun playing this game, it's because they enjoy ruining other people's experiences for some reason, or at least that's how I see it. Maybe a psychologist could answer the question of their motive.


It's cheap entertainment. Why bother finding something else to do when you can just do this?

Dickery is intrinsic to the human experience.

You may be right, but I don't think finding a game nowadays takes much effort. Especially on mobile. I think people decide to troll and then they play this game, and not the other way around.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby angelwolf22 » Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:40 pm

Unrelated to me originally asking why people throw, but you guys switched it to "people always troll" so;

I've also noticed an increase in neo nazis????????? Like in multiple lobbies people will be named HolocaustWasFake, HitlerWasRight, GasTheJews, etc & sometimes they'll change their name off of that to hide but not always.
Like holy cripes, what happened to Town of Salem? It used to be fun and not this mentally draining to just play one game?

Edit: Found the usernames of two of them, it's Jackplace and LooseImpact.
Careful being in games with either. Frequent racist remarks and spamming slurs.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby SilverCruz » Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:37 am

They're unbannable as long as Ads For Play isn't dealt with. Sorry.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby Joacgroso » Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:49 am

I mean, they are just trolls. I doubt they actually think what they say. And no, I don't think people always troll. In fact, most people don't.

Regarding what Silver said about people trolling because the game is boring, I still don't think that's the case, but now that I think about it that argument may make sense in a way since if the game became boring to play then actual players would leave, but it will always be fun to troll in this game, so trolls will stay and may even come, which leads to a higher troll proportion.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby Benn3 » Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:39 pm

The Trial System is extremely stubborn, that's for sure one reason. One time, a Mafia member outted all of their Mafia D1 and then left the next day. They got reported by like 4 people and then didn't even get banned. Another case was when a Veteran purposely alerted so that a Witch could control people into them, most likely they were talking to each other on VC since every night from N1 they were doing that. They also had a history of gamethrowing, yet wasn't punished. A person literally has to admit to gamethrowing to be banned or punished for the most part, which is why people constantly gamethrow. This is a social deception game where you actually need to try, which is why there's so many gamethrowers, because they know it will be the most frustrating for actual players. There's more gamethrowers in Ranked than AA for a reason.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby SilverCruz » Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:31 am

New accounts are immune to getting banned until they've milled through ten rounds, and when they do get banned it's not that hard to just make a new one and run more ads.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby Joacgroso » Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:15 pm

Also, many people admit their intention to throw and they are still deemed innocent.

SilverCruz wrote:New accounts are immune to getting banned until they've milled through ten rounds, and when they do get banned it's not that hard to just make a new one and run more ads.

At least Flavorable mentioned that she agreed with this and she has been talking to the devs about removing the feature. I don't know if it will actually happen though.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby SilverCruz » Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:31 pm

I asked about getting rid of Ads For Play myself. Out of courtesy, all I'll say is that I found the answer unsatisfactory.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby Joacgroso » Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:45 pm

I was talking about removing suspension immunity for new accounts.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby SilverCruz » Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:14 pm

I don't feel like it'd help that much.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby Joacgroso » Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:33 am

I agree that the paywall is pointless if people can play for free with a new account, but seeing trolls with ban immunity laugh at us while doing the most blatant GT was pretty frustrating, so I'm glad someone with authority agrees with me.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby SilverCruz » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:18 am

And regarding the paywall, I've said before that I don't reckon they have the manpower to go back to free to play with it continuing to be a disaster, and I don't think there'd be enough of a rebound in population to sufficiently dilute the bad actors.

Tragedy, ain't it?
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I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby Joacgroso » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:53 am

Just keep the game free to play, but only allow premium users to play on public games.

The option is there, though I don't know how hard it is to implement.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby Colorbolt » Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:41 pm

Joacgroso wrote:Just keep the game free to play, but only allow premium users to play on public games.

The option is there, though I don't know how hard it is to implement.

There is no such thing as "public" and "private" games in TOS. Unless you mean some kind of solo gameplay with bots (which is basically unfeasible), what you suggest doesn't make any sense.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby Benn3 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:58 pm

Colorbolt wrote:
Joacgroso wrote:Just keep the game free to play, but only allow premium users to play on public games.

The option is there, though I don't know how hard it is to implement.

There is no such thing as "public" and "private" games in TOS. Unless you mean some kind of solo gameplay with bots (which is basically unfeasible), what you suggest doesn't make any sense.


He means games that people join in a party; you can create private lobbies(i think so at least) by having a party of at least 7 people and then selecting a gamemode. I know for a fact though you can have private games as long as you have 15 or more people in your party.
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Re: Why Do People Always Throw?

Postby Joacgroso » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:19 pm

Colorbolt wrote:
Joacgroso wrote:Just keep the game free to play, but only allow premium users to play on public games.

The option is there, though I don't know how hard it is to implement.

There is no such thing as "public" and "private" games in TOS. Unless you mean some kind of solo gameplay with bots (which is basically unfeasible), what you suggest doesn't make any sense.

I know that. I was talking about the first 2 suggestions in my signature.
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Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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