Maf leavers and maf always losing

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Maf leavers and maf always losing

Postby misery96 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:36 am

So I mostly play ranked practice and it feels like 10 out of 11 of the last games ive played maf usually leaves on d1, or just gets destroyed without much resistance, is mafia under powered right now? Why do ppl hate playing mafia so much? I honestly think getting rid of NK was a mistake, maybe make it so if ppl get NK in ranked they dont lose rating, but gain rating if they win or something, Mafia losing that extra evil to create chaos, and witch being a mostly garbage and useless role imo. Im getting bored playing TOS, i usually get town 90% of games since i use scrolls, but its not really fun seeing maf lose in 3 nights or just all leaving. I cant tell if its just cause mafia is underpowered, theyre getting unlucky/are playing badly. Before NK was replaced with witch in ranked Maf would win 30/40% of games and leavers/throwers were way more uncommon, now it feels like Maf wins 5-10% of games, and leaver happen 1/2 games. What are peoples thoughts on this
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Re: Maf leavers and maf always losing

Postby Joacgroso » Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:08 pm

Hi. I also only play ranked practice, and mafia doesn't seem underpowered to me. In my experience, there are just as many town leavers as there are mafia leavers. If the jailor is a newbie, mafia will usually win as long as they try.

I don't play that often, but I record information from my games. Out of my 32 RP games since season 5 started, mafia won 50% (16) of them and town won 46.88% (15). I can compare that to my 224 RP games from season 4 (back when retris revived people), where town won 59.55% of games, mafia won 31.36% and the NK won 7.27%. So I think you are just being unlucky enough to always face mafia leavers instead of town leavers.
Regarding leavers, my data from RP season 5 says that they were 1.91 leavers per game (I'm counting people who left while alive, at any point of the game). 31.15% of them were mafia, 57.38% were town and 11.47% were neutrals. My data from RP season 4 says that there were approximately 1.58 leavers per game (the only irregularity is that I accidentally disconnected in in 2 of those games, so there might have been more leavers). Out of the known leavers, 40.68% were mafia, 46.33% were town, 7.34% were NK and 5.65% were NE. So apparently now there are more leavers per game, but less of them are mafia. I can upload the data if you want.

Regarding your other question, personally I used to hate being mafia because I found it very stressful, especially against a competent town. One would feel more restricted and sometimes hopeless. Also, some people are bad at improvising, which is something that mafia usually has to do. And then there are people who enjoy solving mysteries but not lying. It's a shame because once you get the hang of it, being mafia in RP is very funny because you can get away with all sorts of stupid crap.

I feel like removing NKs was a good idea because it reduced the swing, kingmaking scenarios and it also made the game more fair. Keep in mind that NKs also kill mafia, so they aren't such a strong ally. With 2 NEs, mafia has 2 allies instead of 1 so they can control the votes more easily (if exe wins d2 and mafia kills n1/n2, evils have mayority d3). NKs elo loss was already limited to 1 elo, but that didn't stop NKs from killing themselves into the jailor N1/N2. I don't think anything would change. I miss the old rolelist because now I can't play as jester or NK in a semi-balanced gamemode, but I think it should be added as a different gamemode, not as ranked. Maybe the NB slot could come back too.

And witches are great allies and also a very strong role. I don't know why you say the contrary.

In any case, I think you should give mafia a try. If you are good, you can win even if the rest of your team is bad. Remember that town is usually bad too.
Last edited by Joacgroso on Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Maf leavers and maf always losing

Postby misery96 » Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:58 am

Joacgroso wrote:Hi. I also only play ranked practice, and mafia doesn't seem underpowered to me. In my experience, there are just as many town leavers as they are mafia leavers. If the jailor is a newbie, mafia will usually win as long as they try.

I don't play that often, but I record information from my games. Out of my 32 RP games since season 5 started, mafia won 50% (16) of them and town won 46.88% (15). I can compare that to my 224 RP games from season 4 (back when retris revived people), where town won 59.55% of games, mafia won 31.36% and the NK won 7.27%. So I think you are just being unlucky enough to always face mafia leavers instead of town leavers.
Regarding leavers, my data from RP season 5 says that they were 1,91 leavers per game (I'm counting people who left while alive, at any point of the game). 31.15% of them were mafia, 57.38% were town and 11.47% were neutrals. My data from RP season 4 says that there were approximately 1.58 leavers per game (the only irregularity is that I accidentally disconnected in in 2 of those games, so there might have been more leavers). Out of the known leavers, 40.68% were mafia, 46.33% were town, 7.34% were NK and 5.65% were NE. So apparently now there are more leavers per game, but less of them are mafia. I can upload the data if you want.

Regarding your other question, personally I used to hate being mafia because I found it very stressful, especially against a competent town. One would feel more restricted and sometimes hopeless. Also, some people are bad at improvising, which is something that mafia usually has to do. And then there are people who enjoy solving mysteries but not lying. It's a shame because once you get the hang of it, being mafia in RP is very funny because you can get away with all sorts of stupid crap.

I feel like removing NKs was a good idea because it reduced the swing, kingmaking scenarios and it also made the game more fair. Keep in mind that NKs also kill mafia, so they aren't such a strong ally. With 2 NEs, mafia has 2 allies instead of 1 so they can control the votes more easily (if exe wins d2 and mafia kills n1/n2, evils have mayority d3). NKs elo loss was already limited to 1 elo, but that didn't stop NKs from killing themselves into the jailor N1/N2. I don't think anything would change. I miss the old rolelist because now I can't play as jester or NK in a semi-balanced gamemode, but I think it should be added as a different gamemode, not as ranked. Maybe the NB slot could come back too.

And witches are great allies and also a very strong role. I don't know why you say the contrary.

In any case, I think you should give mafia a try. If you are good, you can win even if the rest of your team is bad. Remember that town is usually bad too.


Well informed reponse, but im just gonna say i found those statistics insanely hard to believe, even in games that town outright throws, vig kills townies, and jailor exes jailor, ive seen town win without much resistance. It feels like town has to miss play badly for maf to win, but maybe the maf players are bad, or theyre just getting unlucky/town playing well.
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Re: Maf leavers and maf always losing

Postby Joacgroso » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:52 am

Maybe we play at different times, which leads to us finding different players. I can upload the data if you want, including descriptions of every game.

All you need in order to win as mafia is having a full team willing to coordinate, even if they are clueless by themselves, and a jailor that isn't very good. Usually towns in RP are pretty bad, so you can get misslynches without even trying. If you don't get very unlucky, you can win. Just yesterday I won a game where the only leaver was our mafioso and where the other 2 mafia members didn't even speak at day unless I told them to. There's always hope.

I'm not an expert or anything, but I can give you a couple tips for playing as mafia in RP if you want.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Maf leavers and maf always losing

Postby kyuss420 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:29 am

in my experience ''townie biased'' players cant play as mafia/coven (or even NK and NE) very well, to the point that even if they have big IQ as town, they make very stupid plays as evils.

These players like to play the game in an informed kind of way, relying on information and scum reading, and are easily manipulated by nuetrals as they will lynch just because someone lied (handy when youre GA and want to buy your evil target a night). As evil, they also tend to stupidly vote in even majority situations, so they dont look sus - but at that point it doesnt matter if town know theyre evil...

They wont change their playstyle when theyre nuetral, and will always side town, which is where the problem lies.... They cant change their playstyle when theyre evil either, so to counter how they play the game as town, they tend to target TIs so they ''dont get caught''. (IMO TIs are the weakest roles in the game - they cant do anything without a majority vote or a TK in play so theyre the lowest priority targets) This allows town to have a day phase kill - by lynch, and a night phase kill - by jailor and vigi, so they tend to get steamrolled when theres a team full of them in an evil faction.

In a mode like ranked or RP, where theres no NK to carry them (if the NK has a brain), they know theyre screwed from the get go, so they tend to leave (probly so they dont appear stupid cos they cant evil)

So Joaca's statistics are true....he just plays with smarter players, who know how to change play style depending on what faction they get. Mafia is very easy to win with, if your targeting priorities are optimal. If you have no plan to kill the jailor early, youre likely to lose. If the witch isnt prepared to out themself in a tied majority, youre probly gonna lose. If your faction members cant count to 4, or cant halve 8 during voting phases, youre probly going to lose.

Im no expert either, but with 11k games under my belt, I can say that even the smartest townie biased player, who has no clue how to play evil, isnt as smart as a semi brained player as evil, when the semi brained player rolls town.
I mean...someone who knows what moves the smart evils are trying to make at night, can easily counter them (I can even spot them by who they say they visited at night), but thats something you learn with experience. People who only know how to counter their own townie biased plays/scum reads are never going to pull off constant mafia wins.

Over time a lot of players have learnt that, have been stuck in a mafia faction with 2-3 of those kinds of players, never change their losing strategies (cos they won once or twice against dumb towns) so they just give up when they see red on the role screen...theres not much the devs can do about that.

Problem with having NK in ranked was exactly the same..... NK would just quit day 1, or suicide into the BG on the jailor, or would just play like they were town....all making it harder for mafia to win (at low ELOs) leading to mafia leavers as well
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Re: Maf leavers and maf always losing

Postby Joacgroso » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:18 am

Eh, 11k games make you something pretty close to an expert, even if you specialize in coven.

But I don't think things in RP are as complicated as kyuss said. It's not like I play with smart players or anything. The key is remembering that yes, mafia can have dumb players, but town will usually have at least 2 of them. You need to get those newbies lynched (or just watch while the smarter townies do that for you), and with 2 misslynches you will usually be fine. Just make it look like it's their fault they died (which is actually true).

To get them killed, you can point out basic things like how TP/lo wasn't on jailor claim, or how they never counter claimed their slot, or how they investigated people who already claimed instead of the quiet people, or how they voted wrongly (or didn't vote) during some lynch.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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