discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby StlnSP » Sat May 22, 2021 2:29 am

alex1234321 wrote:
StlnSP wrote:
jelloman1 wrote:i guess i should have been slightly more clear, though it still somewhat is what i asked - my new question is why would you attack a surv claim night one?


It's even more that if it's d1.

They basically have nothing to go off of, and some surv claim would just be enough of a threat. Again, they are either real survs (in any way is not aligned with mafia, AND WOULD BE PRESSURED TO SIDE WITH TOWN EVEN MORE AFTER THEY HARD CLAIM), another killer, which may be immune, but they can push for lynch at that point, or an important town role who thinks no one would see through the fakeclaims.

You also may have been reg hunted if that's your go-to strategy


Would you rather kill someone who likely has no ability and may or may not side with you or someone who probably has a night ability that directly harms your alignment? The chance of hitting Jailor/Mayor doesn't outweigh the fact that you're probably going to hit someone who could easily side with you.


you're assuming that they're gonna actually hard claim in a deception game. and if they do, again, every side is gonna pressure them to side with them.
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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby Kuter » Tue May 25, 2021 12:42 pm

Why not attacking a surv claim? They're as chaotic as a pirate. Unless you're Jugg/pest, always kill surv imo
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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby James2 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:18 pm

jelloman1 wrote:as the title says - why would you, as mafia/sk/vig attack a surv claim at night? you either have 2 options: youll hit someone whose immune, thus wasting a night; or youll kill someone who might be an ally, thus wasting a night. im not saying trust surv claims 100%, for examples im about to say, but of the last week, ive claimed rolled mayor and claimed surv about 10 times, and of those 10 times, night 1 i was killed by mafia 6 times. so i come here to ask - why would they attack me? yes i was mayor, but night 1 they wouldnt know that and should take the surv claim with a grain of salt until someone else mentions it?

why would you, as a role that can do basic attacks, attack a surv claim? discuss

Survivors aren't town so it's reasonable for a Vigilante to kill them if he doesn't have any better targets.

Mafia/SK generally shouldn't kill Survivors, but if they're in a mode where Mayors frequently claim Survivor . . .
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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby alex1234321 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:26 pm

Kuter wrote:Why not attacking a surv claim? They're as chaotic as a pirate. Unless you're Jugg/pest, always kill surv imo


Why would Jugg and Pest want to kill Survivor? Isn't that one of the only roles that wins with them?

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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby Brilliand » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:02 pm

alex1234321 wrote:
Kuter wrote:Why not attacking a surv claim? They're as chaotic as a pirate. Unless you're Jugg/pest, always kill surv imo


Why would Jugg and Pest want to kill Survivor? Isn't that one of the only roles that wins with them?

I don't play coven


You're agreeing with Kuter. Kuter said that everything but Jugg/Pest should kill Survivor, while Jugg/Pest in particular (probably) shouldn't.
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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby danihaley » Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:37 pm

the only reason i would ever intentionally attack a surv claim is if they're openly not siding with my faction, whether it be that they're whispering to someone outside of the faction, voting very actively, or outwardly claiming who they're siding with.


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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby cmitc1 » Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:13 pm

first off, there is next to 0 times you should be claim survivor as town.

next, scum really shouldn't be highly concerned with them early on, but every town member should want them dead. They are threat to their majority. you mention it could be a waste of a night because they "might" be an ally, but the funny thing is that statement argues the exact opposite. them not being dedicated to your alignment is exactly why they should die.
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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby alex1234321 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:43 pm

cmitc1 wrote:first off, there is next to 0 times you should be claim survivor as town.


I do it all the time in All Any. Claiming Surv siding with evils and asking for consig/witch has worked surprisingly well for me as a vetbait. As Mayor or Jailor I sometimes do it early on so that Maf don't bother me. I've even done it a few times as other semi-confirmable roles like Transporter to bait Mafia members into giving me their teammates.

Of course none of those things would work with competent players.
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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby Cihao » Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:51 am

I always check surv claims as witch or consig
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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby TerraHunter » Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:19 pm

Because in all any, anyone can claim survivor and be anything.
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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby BMFG » Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:56 pm

kyuss420 wrote:Survivor is such a boring role, I always claim it day 1 and purposely not vest for the 1st 3 nights in the hopes that maf will kill me.....if they dont, I have vests for late game and can kingmake the game however i like....


This is exactly what I do. If mafia wants to waste a night killing me? Their loss, that was a townie they could have killed. I normally say I'm going for the 'no vest' achievement and would appreciate help.

But yeah, I see zero reason to attack surv claims. Most times, you're NOT gonna kill them because theyre vesting or naturally have defense so you gain no information. And more times than once, I've seen surv turn on mafia because they were attacked early. IMO best call is to have an invest check if you think they're not a surv.
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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby CoolBottleOfWater » Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:20 am

I play all any a lot and sruvs often just get attacked lots because they could easily be evils faking survivor. town also tends to lynch survivors a lot which is unfair since survivor is fun :(
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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby kyuss420 » Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:27 am

TerraHunter wrote:Because in all any, anyone can claim survivor and be anything.


Except its a sus claim thats gonna get you checked by TI early game....

CoolBottleOfWater wrote:I play all any a lot and sruvs often just get attacked lots because they could easily be evils faking survivor. town also tends to lynch survivors a lot which is unfair since survivor is fun :(


but most evils have defence, so best case your gonna waste a night not killing an SK or Jugg (or an actual vesting surv), or else youre likely to get doused or plagued, in which case you still havent confirmed if theyre evil or nuetral. Worst case you hit a WW while hes rampaging at home, or a gazing medusa....

and I assume the 'town' youre talking about includes the evils in the 'town' who also prefer to lynch a potential night immune evil than bother trying to attack them.
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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby Descender » Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:52 pm

gotta assert my dominance somehow
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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby wozearly » Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:57 pm

Late to the party, but worth adding that a Surv claiming D1 is helping the Town by announcing their role (doing that is a relic strategy from the old Ranked days where Town forced D1 Surv reveals on pain of death). That often annoys the evils. In All Any, Surv is also such a common pre-emptive claim for lazy NKs and inexperienced Mayos and Rets that it draws unwanted attention to you.

Realistically, it's never good to openly reveal too early as Surv in All Any unless any NKs are definitely dead or Town is close to taking control, because no-one will trust the claim. I find fake claiming Invest or LO to give you an excuse to whisper suspicious types and soft reveal to Maf, Coven and NKs is usually a far safer route.

That said, there is pretty much zero reason for most roles to attack the Surv N1. It certainly makes no real sense for Maf, Coven or SK - all of whom have bigger fish to fry and if you are either Surv or NK faking Surv then they can't do much about you anyway.

N2 is a different story - that's when WW or Jailor may take a crack at you in case you're something more dangerous, Vigis may also shoot you to prove themselves either with your death or your announcement of an additional unexpected basic attack in the mix the next day.
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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby PleaseReadSiege » Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:39 am

Brilliand wrote:Sounds like it's time to start claiming Surv as Veteran.

I've done this plenty of times to save my alerts until late game in Coven All Any and it's worked great.

Any way, to answer the question: If I'm someone with basic attack, I almost never attack unconfirmed surv claims since it's more than likely they'll have defense (either by being NK or actual surv vesting). If I'm WW or Jugg, I may attack surv claim if I don't know of a better option just in case of arso (this is following Coven All Any rules since that's all I play)
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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby TrillPhonk » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:16 am

making survs lose is dopamine, you need high iq to understand
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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby PleaseReadSiege » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:49 am

TrillPhonk wrote:making survs lose is dopamine, you need high iq to understand


I hate the role, so I feel kind of bad when other people get it and don't want to be the direct reason they lose.
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Re: discuss: why would you attack a surv claim in the night?

Postby Ezradekezra » Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:55 am

TrillPhonk wrote:making survs lose is dopamine, you need high iq to understand

you must be great at parties
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