Ranked Role List Comparison

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Ranked Role List Comparison

Postby LewisFaisal » Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:53 am

Usually i'd just call upon a bunch of friends to try this in a custom lobby, but due to the cap of 4 mafia, that won't be possible. So I want to know of your opinions for this rolelist:

Jailor
Town Investigative
Town Investigative
Town Protective
Town Killing
Town Support
Random Town 1
Random Town 2
Random Town 3

Godfather
Mafioso
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Random Mafia

Jester

What I want to know in particular is:

Would this make a good, balanced and fun rolelist for normal Ranked?
Is the current season 5 ranked rolelist better?
Was the season 4 rolelist better?
Is there any obvious flaws?


i'd explain everything but im in a rush. will be sure to answer questions tho
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Re: Ranked Role List Comparison

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:41 am

is not balanced because it is too maf sided and jester is a bad role which should be left in chaos gamemodes
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Re: Ranked Role List Comparison

Postby LewisFaisal » Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:36 am

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:is not balanced because it is too maf sided and jester is a bad role which should be left in chaos gamemodes


Alr i got time now so...

I don't see how it's too mafia sided. I'd honest to god consider this rolelist a NERF to mafia compared to what we've got now.
Right now, mafia needs 1 mislynch day 2, then they win unless town rolls certain roles. [assuming Jailor meta]. Without Jailor meta, mafia has more claims they can make and they still have just under a 1/4 chance of getting Jailor killed n2.

The Witch is replaced with a 5th mafia because having a confirmed witch to go on Jailor is overpowered, and leads to games being decided day 2 in most cases .

Having a 5th mafia instead of witch fixes this issue. Rolling witch in Ranked is just demoralizing [imo], since if anything goes wrong mafia is gonna bus you for their win, and town wants you dead before mafia so that they may do their night actions without interruption. But rolling Mafia fixes this. You can work with your team to achieve a win, rather than have the fate lie on 4 blunderbuss mafia you don't know about as witch.

More RMs = more combos, more comboes = more potential plays.

Despite this, unless Mafia rolls Consort, they wont be able to win after a single mislynch day 2, which means they have to play a game of deception rather than enter a 1f1 whilst knowing town cant follow it up because of witch.
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Re: Ranked Role List Comparison

Postby EqsyLootz » Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:45 pm

Witch is good

Jest bad

5 maf no.

That's my low detailed response.
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Re: Ranked Role List Comparison

Postby LewisFaisal » Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:42 pm

EqsyLootz wrote:Witch is good

Jest bad

5 maf no.

That's my low detailed response.


My issue with the current rolelist is that almost EVERYTHING boils down to day 2.
I cant play more than 5 matches a session, because it's boring. It's same old, every single game.

Jester was made to replace Executioner because it sides with Mafia way less than Executioner. It's goal is to get lynched. As Executioner is, after it wins, it's an extra vote for town. But Jester, after it wins, it's vote is gone for good.

Mafias need to lynch Jester with caution, town wants to kill the jester so they don't side with mafia [or kill mafia fast enough], and Jester wants to get lynched to win. It's Wincon clashes very nicely with both other factions to add more variation to the game than Executioner does.

Exe's win condition is ALWAYS in favour of mafia. Jester's isn't.

I replaced the witch for a 5th Mafia for a few reasons i mentioned in a previous post. You can read that.

EDIT: Jester siding with mafia isn't safe, as if Mafia gets 1 member endgame and Town has 2 or more during day phase, that Jester has lost. Ideally, Jester aims to baffle the entire town and steal a win for itself. It's haunt isn't that detrimental to the faction it damages on its own, and the Executioner's extra vote is undoubtedly worse.
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Re: Ranked Role List Comparison

Postby EqsyLootz » Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:18 am

LewisFaisal wrote:
EqsyLootz wrote:Witch is good

Jest bad

5 maf no.

That's my low detailed response.


My issue with the current rolelist is that almost EVERYTHING boils down to day 2.
I cant play more than 5 matches a session, because it's boring. It's same old, every single game.

Jester was made to replace Executioner because it sides with Mafia way less than Executioner. It's goal is to get lynched. As Executioner is, after it wins, it's an extra vote for town. But Jester, after it wins, it's vote is gone for good.

Mafias need to lynch Jester with caution, town wants to kill the jester so they don't side with mafia [or kill mafia fast enough], and Jester wants to get lynched to win. It's Wincon clashes very nicely with both other factions to add more variation to the game than Executioner does.

Exe's win condition is ALWAYS in favour of mafia. Jester's isn't.

I replaced the witch for a 5th Mafia for a few reasons i mentioned in a previous post. You can read that.

EDIT: Jester siding with mafia isn't safe, as if Mafia gets 1 member endgame and Town has 2 or more during day phase, that Jester has lost. Ideally, Jester aims to baffle the entire town and steal a win for itself. It's haunt isn't that detrimental to the faction it damages on its own, and the Executioner's extra vote is undoubtedly worse.


The thing I enjoy about this season is the high intensity. So what if it boils down to D2. If you want to make it go down to D3. VFR. Skip a lynch no TK kill and its 7v6 more discussions and more lynching times.

9v6 is quite balanced imo. This ranked season relies much less on luck and more on skill. If Mafia is better than the town the mafia wins. if the town is better they will win and so forth.
Who Am I! What Do I Do? Where am I? Wait where did I Come from? All questions to be answered. Mysteries among us.

Spoiler: Forums Mafia Stats! Win 5 Loss 5 Broken/Draw 1
FM Stats!
Most Recent Town Game: VFM 66
Most Recent Scum Game: SFM 79

Hosted:
XX5 - Town Win!
SFM 70 - Mafia Win!
VFM 69 - Mafia Win!
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Re: Ranked Role List Comparison

Postby kyuss420 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:10 am

EqsyLootz wrote:
The thing I enjoy about this season is the high intensity. So what if it boils down to D2. If you want to make it go down to D3. VFR. Skip a lynch no TK kill and its 7v6 more discussions and more lynching times.



high intensity makes noobs feel they absolutely have to lynch day 2.

Thing is, players who are used to playing evil, are used to the high intensity situations, whereas more townie sided players are used to (from a 2 year long season 4) having more control over the game, and time to think/re evaluate if they make a mistake. (as I always said - evil pros make smarter/better towns than townie pros)

Town has been too OP for too long and now the game has balanced out by reducing the luck factor for mafia (eg. now they arent reliant on what NK and NE spawns) they have figured out how to counter the LO meta (which made the game just as stale and boring) and townies actually have to think again.
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Re: Ranked Role List Comparison

Postby LewisFaisal » Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:58 pm

For Mafia-esque games, the burden of out-playing should be on the Mafia faction. With the current rolelist, there's not much "outplaying" going on, as you can be a medium playing legitimately PERFECT, but because a single dumbass sheriff thought the mafia's push was convincing, still lose.

What world is the town faction of a mafia-esque game punished for something usually out of their control; since idiots are gonna be idiots and ToS queueing ain't that good.

The rolelist I provided is a challenge for mafia, and sure it's more lenient on town, but nowhere near as lenient as the 9v4v1v1 of old. If town fuck up even the slightest, the 5 mafia can exploit that. Also, 5 mafia gives more room for comebacks from the evils.

The list I've proposed rewards Mafia for taking the initiative and baffling town, all the while it doesn't punish town for 1 townie being dumb.

It's stupid that an uninformed majority can lose so easily because 1 out of 8 of them made a mistake.
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Re: Ranked Role List Comparison

Postby LewisFaisal » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:02 pm

EqsyLootz wrote:The thing I enjoy about this season is the high intensity. So what if it boils down to D2. If you want to make it go down to D3. VFR. Skip a lynch no TK kill and its 7v6 more discussions and more lynching times.

9v6 is quite balanced imo. This ranked season relies much less on luck and more on skill. If Mafia is better than the town the mafia wins. if the town is better they will win and so forth.

That's the thing though. Even if 7 out of the 9 town want to skip a lynch and continue vfring day three to get more info, as long as a single townie votes with Mafia, that's game more often than not.

"Luck" was removed from the rolelist the second the Neutral Killing was removed.
But that doesn't mean the current rolelist is good.
Luck is gone, all we need to do is make Mafia and Town have a reasonable chance at victory. Currently, town doesn't have that reasonable chance. all 8 Town have to play perfectly, else you're praying to RNGesus that you rolled Mayor, Trans or Vigilante.
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