Allow reports for every violation.

[RedHeadStepChild]

Hell Yes Mystic. I like this! Thank you much for posting. You Rock!
I really like the last 2 marks.
The only one that gives me pause is rules being up to interpretation. This causes too big of a margin for error, because 1 judge could say yes its gamethrowing or its offensive whereas another could say no i dont find it offensive or i dont see it as gamethrowing. If the mods all get together and set a standard and everyone follows that standard then there is no reason for interpretation.

As far as being too strict...we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Simple as that. You can say no one wants this all you want. But it seems the only ones responding to ANY of my posts are mods/judges.

...

It's not my thoughts of what constitutes a rule break, i am going off of the current set of rules that mods/devs create.

That happens anyways. Every time there's a rulebook update, there's a whole big fuss about it because some people like the changes, some people think they're bullshit, and some people don't care, with every single change. What I want with that point is for people to be able to vote the way they think is right by the spirit of the law without being weighed down by its letter.

True, there is no universal standard for too strict or lenient. I just feel like your suggestions push the Trial System from one extreme to another, and I've seen the results of people trying to fix their problems that way. It's very ugly. On that last point, neither KatiyaKramer nor myself are mods/judges.

Are you using the rules that are displayed in game, or the lastest (Pay to Play) Trial System rulebook? Remember that those are very different from each other, so if you use the wrong rules, they might not be accurate.

Exactly, you are correct it does happen. Hence one reason why we have the problems we are having now.
You know how frustrating it is to see one judge handle a report for gamethrowing then suspend the person, then another judge handle another report of the exact kind of gamethrowing only for them to say"this does not Warrant a suspension"?
And of course people are going to fuss because theyre not allowed to get away with murder anymore. Hence why I said earlier, if you are in a supervisory or enforcement position, you are going to piss people off. Its called doing your job.

Alas, you make some good ideas there Mystic. Keep ut up. I salute you.



Im using the latest set of rules to include those on the trial system juror page.

[MysticMismagius]

Hell Yes Mystic. I like this! Thank you much for posting. You Rock!
I really like the last 2 marks.
The only one that gives me pause is rules being up to interpretation. This causes too big of a margin for error, because 1 judge could say yes its gamethrowing or its offensive whereas another could say no i dont find it offensive or i dont see it as gamethrowing. If the mods all get together and set a standard and everyone follows that standard then there is no reason for interpretation.

As far as being too strict...we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Simple as that. You can say no one wants this all you want. But it seems the only ones responding to ANY of my posts are mods/judges.

...

It's not my thoughts of what constitutes a rule break, i am going off of the current set of rules that mods/devs create.

That happens anyways. Every time there's a rulebook update, there's a whole big fuss about it because some people like the changes, some people think they're bullshit, and some people don't care, with every single change. What I want with that point is for people to be able to vote the way they think is right by the spirit of the law without being weighed down by its letter.

True, there is no universal standard for too strict or lenient. I just feel like your suggestions push the Trial System from one extreme to another, and I've seen the results of people trying to fix their problems that way. It's very ugly. On that last point, neither KatiyaKramer nor myself are mods/judges.

Are you using the rules that are displayed in game, or the lastest (Pay to Play) Trial System rulebook? Remember that those are very different from each other, so if you use the wrong rules, they might not be accurate.

Exactly, you are correct it does happen. Hence one reason why we have the problems we are having now.
You know how frustrating it is to see one judge handle a report for gamethrowing then suspend the person, then another judge handle another report of the exact kind of gamethrowing only for them to say "this does not Warrant a suspension"? It's less frustrating than what we've currently got. I've seen so many reports that I wanted to guilty so bad, but they would be inno by the book. If even half of them got guiltied that would be an improvement.
And of course people are going to fuss because they're not allowed to get away with murder anymore. But murder is what makes town of salem what it is ;D Hence why I said earlier, if you are in a supervisory or enforcement position, you are going to piss people off. Its called doing your job. I was talking mainly about fuss within the juror community but that's my bad for not being clear.

Alas, you make some good ideas there Mystic. Keep it up. I salute you. Thanks.

I'm using the latest set of rules to include those on the trial system juror page. Give that a reread. You'll find that half the things you think are against the rules, especially with GT and Cheating, actually aren't anymore, or can't be effectively punished.

[RedHeadStepChild]

You are quite welcome.

And yes ill give it a gander. I wanted to anyway, i was confused on something.

Murder is what makes ToS what it is eh? Lol cute

Jurors are enforcers. How many people were pissed off for being voted guilty on "just making a joke"?

[Jerme]

Quite a few were unsettled for getting suspended or banned for "just making a joke", which either are inside jokes, so nobody but them understand them, or secondly. or secondly aren't really jokes to the rules. You can find a few examples for that on the appeals board, as well as example for other of the excuses you brought up, and then you can compare, which of them were deemed valid and which not.

also your "request" to lock this thread might break Forum rule 12.

[RedHeadStepChild]

Quite a few were unsettled for getting suspended or banned for "just making a joke", which either are inside jokes, so nobody but them understand them, or secondly. or secondly aren't really jokes to the rules. You can find a few examples for that on the appeals board, as well as example for other of the excuses you brought up, and then you can compare, which of them were deemed valid and which not.

also your "request" to lock this thread might break Forum rule 12.

I am well aware of what examples are out there on the appeals forum Jerme, that is where I get a lot of my facts from, that and watching what people talk about in the game itself. Contrary to popular belief, I am not as ignorant as some seem to think.

If you want an interesting read, you should look up ToS videos on youtube and read the comments, particularly the videos of those people who were suspended or banned, its quite amusing.

And as far as excuses go, the things I listed are not excuses, they are the reasons why people break the rules. You can try to downplay it all you want, or try to make it seem its not as bad as it is, when looking at the report players forum, appeals, closed reports, and feedback, suggestions forums and the countless reports that are generated every day all speak to the contrary.

Plus not to mention, you mentioned before that there are not really any bugs with the system, then why May I ask did you overturn someone who was banned with no reports against them? Id say that right there would constitute a serious bug in the system now wouldnt it?
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=100848 referenced here
This is not the first instance of this, nor will it be the last. And also I am not even going to mention the bug that several mods say there is about the wrong reason why people are being banned/suspended.

The reason why I "requested " you to lock this post, because you and other forum mods have repeatedly locked posts ive started, so I figure hey go ahead and lock this one too. Which truthfully I am quite suprised you havent yet.

[Brilliand]

And also I am not even going to mention the bug that several mods say there is about the wrong reason why people are being banned/suspended.

A little off-topic, but it weirds me out when someone mentions that they're not mentioning something.

[Jerme]

There is indeed a slight issue with the System that the judges are aware of (and TurdPile cannot change, so it seems). Those are rare thing that comes up.
We do try to avoid it as much as we can, yet we're not machines and thus could forget something.

Thank you for your recommendation, but I believe I do have my priorities elsewhere

I do know that sone people underestimate the enforcement of the rules, but this is nothing that I can change about, as its what they have to learn by themselves. The only "excuse" that I see is the third person using the account, as the most of the times I've seen this stated, was the owner themselves the culprit, who attempts to push the blame in order to get unbanned. Thus I do have a slight doubt in the "[racist] relative/friend"-claim.

I do lock posts if they go into the direction of breaking the forum rules, unless its in appeals, then its mostly because the appeal is denied.

[Jerme]

I believe the quote of Flavorable was a sarcastic reply to the OPs thread.

[RedHeadStepChild]

I believe the quote of Flavorable was a sarcastic reply to the OPs thread.

My response was equally sarcastic in response to Flavorable's sarcasm combined with a strong desire to gauge the OP's response.

Oh Hagg1s, how I've missed you deary.....you know there is something I've been wating to tell you. Firstly as a Scot myself, haggis is delicious! Puts hair on your chest. So I like the name, 2ndly, do not throw stones in a glass house.

[RedHeadStepChild]

Plus not to mention, you mentioned before that there are not really any bugs with the system, then why May I ask did you overturn someone who was banned with no reports against them? Id say that right there would constitute a serious bug in the system now wouldnt it?
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=100848 referenced here
This is not the first instance of this, nor will it be the last. And also I am not even going to mention the bug that several mods say there is about the wrong reason why people are being banned/suspended.

Firstly, that has not been overturned yet. Jerme stated in that appeal that the ban in question would be under investigation.

As far as I'm aware, if someone is banned with no reports, it could mean that a Dev was involved in that banning, but as I said, the latest that came out of that appeal thread was that it was under investigation, and not overturned yet.

Secondly, the wrong reason thing is when users who are banned and suspended log in and are given a reason as to why they were banned/suspended, when it reality it was for another reason. Like a user logs in and sees they were suspended for HS/H, but the guilty report was for spam. This is an issue the Devs need to fix when they get a chance, and it's not the fault of the judges/Gmods/admins.

I do understand what you are saying Katiya, and I am also very much aware that Judges/Gmods/admins all stick up for each other regardless of the issue.
However, with that being said, I never stated it was the fault of the judges/Gmods/admins...I merely stated that in response to Jerme's comment "that there are no bugs with the system". Keep in mind that bugs in the system are not just limited to programming or software issues, it also includes people running it. It doesn't matter whos fault it is really, the point is, there are bugs in the system. I just bloody hope the Devs take time to actually fix the problems instead of putting everything toward unity, when flash support will not end for another 7 months.

[Brilliand]

I just bloody hope the Devs take time to actually fix the problems instead of putting everything toward unity, when flash support will not end for another 7 months.

The devs are probably right that there time is better spent finishing Unity and then doing other things, rather than alternating between the two.

[Brilliand]

I was more focused on the fact that while the Unity port is in progress, any improvements to the game take more work than they would otherwise (because they have to improve both the Flash version of the game and the Unity version of the game).

[RedHeadStepChild]

Oh Hagg1s, how I've missed you deary.....you know there is something I've been wating to tell you.

If that was really true you would have PMed me so I think you just added that for dramatic effect.

Do not throw stones in a glass house.

Funny I recall you being told this exact same thing in another thread.

To put this bluntly, I disagree with all of your suggestions. I think the current system of checks and balances needs to remain so people like you are not able to repeatedly file multiple reports, based on perceived slights or egregiously baseless interpretations of events. Based on your posting history, you have a tendency to do this and subsequently get angry at the outcome when it doesn't go your way. You've even done it to me.

BMG/Judges/Mods whatever cannot possibly have the capacity to constantly be weeding through these in order to find the ones that are accurate and require their attention and action. That's why the community-driven trial system is so beneficial at abdicating that responsibility. Opening the forums back up negates this valuable property. Stacking suspensions on reports filed at the same time impacts gameplay and potentially drives away user base.

I think you need to accept that some people make poor decisions, mistakes and don't deserve to be harassed or shot out of a cannon into the sun immediately for it.

Unless you're still in game in which case those noobs need to be pwned.

Im highly flattered you read my posts Haggis. It makes me feel all warm and squishy inside. And I highly appreciate your bluntness.

However I must ask, what thesaurus are you using? Been trying to find a decent one myself.

The reason I make repeated reports are because I play several games back to back mostly in Draculas Palace, and it is quite easy to tell the difference between a bad play and someone trying to get away with breaking the rules. We all make bad plays, I know I do. But its quite easy to tell when someone is cheating out of game, teaming and purposefully gamethrowing. Its not that hard Especially when they bloody admit it! Or write it in their will or get all pissed off when they are called out on it. Plus if you pay attention to who comes in and leaves the lobby chances are if 2 or more people come in at the same time, theyre teaming. Usually on discord. Now i am not saying everyone that comes in is cheating or teaming, but if its the same group of people game after game and then they start saying things in game about certain information about other players when there are no whispers between them, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out whats going on. Use a little common sense.

But the reason why so many people posted reports on the forums is, like myself, they have no faith in the trial system and at the time, that is what it was used for. Derh! Plus if people would actually read and abide by the bloody rules there would not be any need to make reports now would there? NO! But because of the reasons, plus many more that I listed of why people break the rules. It is going to keep happening regardless no matter what is done.
When I am playing games back to back, its easier to take notes and screenshots after im done playing for the day and make several posts at once, than to run back and forth to the forums between games.
Can I or anyone else help the fact when they see several people break the rules they report it? No! Why? because that is what we are supposed to do.
And everyone knows Hagg1s you're are nothing but an elitist type gamer who think hes gods gift to gaming by constantly attempting to stroke his ego by saying "I carried the game" after every game even after dying night 1 and losing. I gotta say, its good for a laugh.

What I get mildly frustrated about is the fact there is no set standard that the judges follow when they decide whether a report is guilty or not. Especially when i submit the same kind of reports and 2 different judges handle it, and one deems guilty and one deems innocent for the same thing. And not to mention tthe number of times its been said racial hatespeech/usernames are auto banned yet some who are blatenly guilty of it were suspended, while others were banned. The closed reports sections have numerous accounts of this. I am not the only one whos Expressed their distaste for this either.

My question to those of you who dont like my ideas, and also to those that claim they never had a report against them before, if you abide by the rules and follow the rules, then what are you afraid of if the rules get more strict? If you can follow the rules then why cant everyone else? Why do you care if you have nothing to worry about? What are you afraid of?


@Brilland Yes I agree with Katiya, it is a good point

[Jerme]

Moderator Message: A quick reminder: Please mind the forum rules, especially rule 8. Any further actions will result in boardwarnings.

[RedHeadStepChild]

Teaming with Airowyn...lol...So predictable.
But I will answer your inquiry, Teaming with Airowyn: No. Occasionally Invite each other as an ingame party with a few others I enjoy playing with when we all happen to be online at the same time. Yes, of course! I do not have discord. Nor do I have any desire to acquire it. So as far as me teaming out of game with her or anyone else for that matter, does not happen.

Perceived insights. Given your use of big words, you seem book smart, but have no real world experience because obviously you have never heard the phrase Perception is reality.

Dictatorship? Lol.....oh you must be a liberal living in new England somewhere. And really have no concept of having to fight fire with fire. Which has been my whole bloody idea to my suggestions because ToS mods/judges are being walked all over by a bunch of jackasses that think the rules do not apply to them.

And Wow!!! I was not aware that people intentionally violating the rule "Racial slurs/Usernames will not be tolerated" by avoiding the filter knowing full well what they are doing, is interpreted in a different way then how it is written. Holy Crap! Thank you for the much needed clarification. Its much appreciated.
I feel like such an idiot for not realizing it sooner. Yes. I stand here before you all and say I was wrong.

I take back every idea I have ever posted to this forum.