This community is acting like a bunch of 9 year old asshats.

[id10ts]

Most of the staff here doesn’t seem to get paid. They work hard, putting their time and effort into trying to fix things, but nothing they do seems good enough for some of you whiny, petty little brats.

I am not referring to everyone. Some of you have legitimate complaints. But others are clearly just stirring shit for the sake of stirring shit and jumping on a hate train to be edgy, and those people ought to be ashamed of themselves. But they won’t be, because they lack the sense given innately to even potatoes.

Making the game pay to play was the only way to make the bots fuck off, but I still see people bitching about that; often, these are the same people whining about the bots and offering stupid solutions that don’t work.

They try to make the forums less toxic, and some people waste time trying to demoralize the BMG staff with childish shitposts just to be fuckheads.

The staff here owes nothing to nobody. They are largely volunteers. It’s annoying to see people bitching and moaning about how the volunteers do their work, all the while sitting on their busted ass chairs, elbow-deep in a bag of Doritos, as useless as tits on a bull.

It’s shameful.

Absolutely disgraceful.

[greenrabbit7]

im gonna tell my mommy on u >:c

[Villagerlover]

Look, the developers of this game aren't exactly the greatest people ever. You're kinda blatantly disregarding the ridiculous things that have happened involving BMG's behavior, and what they've promised versus executed in the past. This involves things like (supposedly) unfulfilled kickstarter promises, extremely long gaps between even the most minor updates, and some questionable choices about how kickstarter money was spent.

We have a right to complain to the company for their actions, especially pertaining to things they say they will do, and never do.
And just like you said, not everyone here is that cringy 9-year old who's whining. But there's not a lot of that here on the forums...if anything, it's the same people complaining about the same thing in different pages, just repeating what others have already stated over and over again. And when you have multiple people all complaining about the same thing, then it's a likely cause for something to get done about that thing.

The developers are finally getting back to their feet, and doing things that should've been done a while ago. Especially pertaining to the recent bot raid problem being the only real cause for BMG finally adding more security measures to their game (ultimately having to switch to P2P). I know they say they have been trying to work on shifting to Unity Port, but it's clear they can still implement other minor content in the meantime that people still complain about constantly, and there's no real reason to hold it back and wait for December.

The moderators are fine, they are just volunteers who moderate the forums and act as a mail-person sometimes.

[PyromonkeyGG]

This involves things like (supposedly) unfulfilled kickstarter promises, extremely long gaps between even the most minor updates, and some questionable choices about how kickstarter money was spent.

Don't spread rumors that are baseless.

But others are clearly just stirring shit for the sake of stirring shit and jumping on a hate train to be edgy, and those people ought to be ashamed of themselves. But they won’t be, because they lack the sense given innately to even potatoes.

Making the game pay to play was the only way to make the bots fuck off, but I still see people bitching about that; often, these are the same people whining about the bots and offering stupid solutions that don’t work.

They try to make the forums less toxic, and some people waste time trying to demoralize the BMG staff with childish shitposts just to be fuckheads.

Please don't attack other users you don't agree with.


These forums are here so we can have civil discussions with each other. Let's be the best version of our selves.

[greenrabbit7]

Pyro, you're an amazing person. You found flaws in both people's arguments; genuinely, I'm really impressed. Thank you.

[abizoey]

This involves things like (supposedly) unfulfilled kickstarter promises, extremely long gaps between even the most minor updates, and some questionable choices about how kickstarter money was spent.

Don't spread rumors that are baseless.

Unfulfilled kickstarter promises - this is just a fact. The kickstarter is from four years ago, mobile has only just been fully released last month and localisation for other languages is extremely limited (two languages and there isn't even a turkish UI translation), as well as many of the stretch goals still being unfulfilled - no private lobbies, no trial system rewards, no emotes, no PSN port (okay that one was probably a little too ambitious)

Extremely long gaps between even the most minor updates - well, depends what you define as extremely long, but yes if you look in patch notes you can see the game has gone without any kind of update at all for three months at a time sometimes. Critical bugs also take an extremely long time to fix, such as the bug with reports not counting for players who have left the game - reported on the forums here, in June 2017 (and was already a known bug at that time) - and finally patched here, in February 2018.

Questionable choices about how kickstarter money was spent - no proof that this is true of course, but it's a well known rumour that has been going round for years now. Villagerlover said themselves that this is unconfirmed ("supposedly"). When kickstarter promises take years to fulfill, or are unfulfilled entirely, people will start to question why, which is where these rumours come from. It's up to you guys to clarify things, not punish anyone who even mentions something that a lot of people believe is true.

Giving this user a board warning for 'misinformation' for this comment is absolutely ridiculous.

[mdb1023]

Well, I mean, there is some base to that. Yeah some kickstarter goals are unfulfilled, but they're mostly minor things and/or things that would take longer to implement that initially anticipated when the mods have better things to do. Or in the case of the PSN port- completely a waste of time. I did say at the time ToS would work great on the Wii U because of the gamepad, but the Wii U is dead now so there's really no point in porting this game to any system that doesn't have a keyboard.

As for the long gaps- yeah, that's kind of a fact. I've been itching for some new content to be added for quite a while. I think the last major update was Coven if you don't count the small ones that just tweaked balance.

But I agree with pyro on that 3rd point: how the money was spent is not anyone's business but BMG's and given how much money it takes to keep this game running and support the devs financiallly, i absolutely do not doubt that any extra money was invested straight into the company.

[abizoey]

But I agree with pyro on that 3rd point: how the money was spent is not anyone's business but BMG's and given how much money it takes to keep this game running and support the devs financiallly, i absolutely do not doubt that any extra money was invested straight into the company.

Sure. I'm not commenting on how they spent the money because no one knows and it can absolutely be argued that it's no one's business. I just think that giving someone a board warning for even mentioning that the rumour exists is ridiculous.

[BasicFourLife]

The root of the problem is BMG, not the community. BMG is the source which turned the community into this and it may be too late to salvage the community now but if there was one, the only chance for that is BMG.

But they think that banning everyone on the forums helps fix the toxicity it’s blantly false. There are always gonna be more people like that, unless you fix the core of the issue which turns the players into that in the first place.

Stop acting like the Devs are the victims here, because they are not.

The staff here owes nothing to nobody. They are largely volunteers. It’s annoying to see people bitching and moaning about how the volunteers do their work, all the while sitting on their busted ass chairs, elbow-deep in a bag of Doritos, as useless as tits on a bull.

This is a lie. Have you seen someone bitch about Mod volunteers? The answer is no, since they all do an amazing job, a better one than BMG does. The only staff who is bitched about are the ones who are paid aka BMG.

[Magnasword2]

But well this community has always been quite odd even before the highly dubious behaviour displayed around this game. Let's take for example the early days where it was extremely common for players to party up, put one player onto the stand, let them down, then put them up for hours on end. or the dark days of the double Jailor meta. Heck there was even the absurdity of the early forum days with the power mad moderators who would literally take any excuse to call someone out.

It really isn't as bad as the throne of lies developers just outright banning people off both the game and forums for disagreeing with them though. Not to mention their addiction to trying to 1up anyone who writes them a bad steam review.

If you look into it from an objective viewpoint, do things add up in a cohesive way to blame the developers for peoples outrage? Well sort of. There are connections to be made and assumptions to take based on priorities and motivation. What people don't seem to understand is that this sort of behaviour is Inherent in every single deduction game. and trust me I've been around. Epic mafia's community would make you long for the whiney teenage crying that happens here. those people will make up rule violations for not playing the way they wanted. Same with the above mentioned Throne of lies. Even mindnight suffered before it vanished into obscurity sadly. And their devs seem to be very nice from my experience with them.

Is there a solution to this type of community? Well yes there is. Pretty much creating a close knit group of friends who you only play with. That is how you make a worthwhile and positive experience out of TOS 100 percent of the time.

I guess my point is thus: Is there developer fault? Yes for sure this is evident in many excruciating details. Does developer fault create the problem of asshats in game? no. For certain they don't. On the forums? It could contribute to frustration but not at the extent people are putting forward. Do the devs put in work? Well undoubtedly. The amount of correspondence and action taken during the bot crisis proves that. In fact it was one of the reasons I started playing again. There are arguments for both sides from many different viewpoints. The fact of the matter is those who take fault with the developers actions want either one of two things. A. To try to moderate their actions through public opinion out of a sense of justice or B. To jump onto a hate bandwagon because of the love of drama. Section B are the legitimate problem.

[Achilles]

It really isn't as bad as the throne of lies developers just outright banning people off both the game and forums for disagreeing with them though. Not to mention their addiction to trying to 1up anyone who writes them a bad steam review.

Huh, hadn't heard of this before. Went to check their most recent review.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/MarikvonBernkastel/recommended/595280/

I don't really like taking shots at other developers but with how many shots they took at us I'll just say that I hope they realize now that being a game developer isn't easy and you have to learn how to take a lot of public criticism. I'm still trying to get better at it myself.

[Chemist1422]

Yeah, I think that the devs do need more support from the community, but attacking the community isn't going to help anything. Threads like this just add more toxicity and that's what most people seem to be trying to avoid.

[Villagerlover]

It really isn't as bad as the throne of lies developers just outright banning people off both the game and forums for disagreeing with them though. Not to mention their addiction to trying to 1up anyone who writes them a bad steam review.

Huh, hadn't heard of this before. Went to check their most recent review.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/MarikvonBernkastel/recommended/595280/

I don't really like taking shots at other developers but with how many shots they took at us I'll just say that I hope they realize now that being a game developer isn't easy and you have to learn how to take a lot of public criticism. I'm still trying to get better at it myself.

Well, if I could give my two cents, I think you guys are still doing pretty good. I know I say a lot of stuff on here that can still poke at the flaws from the past regarding certain terms used, and speculation about uncertainty. But ultimately, I'm just happy to see that at the end, the community is finally working to get better. And that's how it should be.

[abizoey]

It really isn't as bad as the throne of lies developers just outright banning people off both the game and forums for disagreeing with them though. Not to mention their addiction to trying to 1up anyone who writes them a bad steam review.

Huh, hadn't heard of this before. Went to check their most recent review.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/MarikvonBernkastel/recommended/595280/

I don't really like taking shots at other developers but with how many shots they took at us I'll just say that I hope they realize now that being a game developer isn't easy and you have to learn how to take a lot of public criticism. I'm still trying to get better at it myself.

If you would like to improve how you handle criticism, personally I'd recommend clarifying misunderstandings/misconceptions the community may have rather than just warning/banning anyone who mentions them.

I don't see how the behaviour of developers for an entirely different game is relevant to this discussion.

[BasicFourLife]

It really isn't as bad as the throne of lies developers just outright banning people off both the game and forums for disagreeing with them though. Not to mention their addiction to trying to 1up anyone who writes them a bad steam review.

Huh, hadn't heard of this before. Went to check their most recent review.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/MarikvonBernkastel/recommended/595280/

I don't really like taking shots at other developers but with how many shots they took at us I'll just say that I hope they realize now that being a game developer isn't easy and you have to learn how to take a lot of public criticism. I'm still trying to get better at it myself.

If you would like to improve how you handle criticism, personally I'd recommend clarifying misunderstandings/misconceptions the community may have rather than just warning/banning anyone who mentions them.

I don't see how the behaviour of developers for an entirely different game is relevant to this discussion.

^

This is about BMG and not ToL. Even if they were worse Developers than the ones in BMG, you can’t use that as an excuse for your own.

[Magnasword2]

It really isn't as bad as the throne of lies developers just outright banning people off both the game and forums for disagreeing with them though. Not to mention their addiction to trying to 1up anyone who writes them a bad steam review.

Huh, hadn't heard of this before. Went to check their most recent review.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/MarikvonBernkastel/recommended/595280/

I don't really like taking shots at other developers but with how many shots they took at us I'll just say that I hope they realize now that being a game developer isn't easy and you have to learn how to take a lot of public criticism. I'm still trying to get better at it myself.

If you would like to improve how you handle criticism, personally I'd recommend clarifying misunderstandings/misconceptions the community may have rather than just warning/banning anyone who mentions them.

I don't see how the behaviour of developers for an entirely different game is relevant to this discussion.

It's relevant because if you look at how other developers treat their fanbase on a personal level, Town of Salem is surprisingly much tamer than other communities like Epic mafia and Throne of lies. Being they have to deal with the exact same problems and criticism you can pretty much determine that The TOS devs have handled it better than them at least on an emotional and professional level. But if you think of this from an ethics standpoint things become a little vauge but effectively, TOS won't outrightly try to hurt their customers whereas these other places have done so which would garned a particular amount of merit within this community as a whole. This is in no way saying there aren't problems however, just that TOS moved way up the ladder in recent times.

[Jerme]

The staff here owes nothing to nobody. They are largely volunteers. It’s annoying to see people bitching and moaning about how the volunteers do their work, all the while sitting on their busted ass chairs, elbow-deep in a bag of Doritos, as useless as tits on a bull.

This is a lie. Have you seen someone bitch about Mod volunteers? The answer is no, since they all do an amazing job, a better one than BMG does. The only staff who is bitched about are the ones who are paid aka BMG.

Hidden, please, you have not much of an idea about what you are talking. I do have seen that and got some probably attacking meant comments on the forums against us (mostly Appeals, but some threads have already been removed) along with the typical moonman thing ingame. I do not wish to call you out for a lie, but only for having limited information.
You are free to check appeals for that.

@Abizoey: So you don't consider the taunts as emotes? The Trial System rewards are already there, or a couple of them, but they have not been implemented, yet. Some Kickstarter goals do take longer to make, as working code is not growing on trees, especially when the dev team is quite small with a lot of work to do. I prefer having the game being playable first before going more into details, which I consider the goals to be.

No person is free of flaws and makes errors, or decisions that may take longer to get done, but one is learning from the mistakes. I ask you to not figuratively lunge at BMGs throat for doing some errors and you dislike them for something you feel they haven't done. You are free to point the errors out, but there are different way to do so, none has to be hostile.

With that I'd like to wish everyone a good day and ask you to calm down. Thanks~

[Achilles]

They couldn't just remove the bots?

Can we not revive a necro thread with 30 days of no new posts please.