We need to stop this knee-jerk reaction to Merit Points

[Stinko]

It's sad that you guys defame a youtuber while saying he defames you.

[orangeandblack5]

Disagreeing with Merit Points is totally fine. Doing so based on a misinformed, reactionary basis just makes you look stupid and/or needy. This is my point. Not "don't criticize" (I even expressly say to do exactly that in the OP), but "don't jump to conclusions and attack somebody for something you haven't rationally thought about".

[presidentjeb]

I read something and changed my mind on most of this.

They should have told players a week in advance, though, so they could save up for the cosmetics they wanted.
All cosmetics will be available with merit points soon, it's just newer ones that they haven't gotten around to yet.
This makes me pretty much fine.

I think the problem with this is the coin farming that would've occurred. Can you imagine people entering non-ranked modes and afking all game just to get the TP?

still, I see your view. Perhaps TP should be allowed to be converted into MP, so that 770 TP (or some similarly unusable amount) can be used.

[Stinko]

second time to ask but what direct quotes from magna and torm are lies? No one is answering so it seems like no one actually has the back up. all I'm looking for is examples to understand why you're so insane about suing people

[orangeandblack5]

Yeah that's a few steps too far.

That being said, I'm not tossing any more attention towards Tormental. I've stayed very neutral throughout that schism, but Tormental's behavior (including towards me) has been extremely childish. I have no photo proof to back this up (unless I do somewhere, doubt it), but he's even gone so far as to reply to myself and at least one other person in a peaceful comment chain on one of his videos with expletives, but immediately edited what he said to ":)", making it appear in our notification boxes as an insult but to the outside world as something completely different. His behavior on the forums was hardly better.

[Stinko]

I mentioned magna too and I guess all that means you have nothing to show as a lie. someone else then? help me understand why critics should be sued

[orangeandblack5]

He didn't say for criticism, he said for defamation. Which probably either A: was deleted from the forums for breaking the code of conduct, or B: is in one of the long YouTube rants I haven't wasted time watching.

Either way, he said they may have a case, which they likely don't.

[Stinko]

please let other people reply with what they consider defaming since you don't know. if you keep going it will block out the question

[mdb1023]

I mentioned magna too and I guess all that means you have nothing to show as a lie. someone else then? help me understand why critics should be sued

Critics!? HAH! Don't make me laugh! There's a HUGE difference between criticism and just straight up shitting on people. Most of the points (and I use that term loosely here) that Tormental maked were either false, exaggerated, lacking logical reasoning or evidence, or plain hateful. If you don't understand the difference between criticism and defaming, here are some examples:

Criticism: "town of Salem is a free to play game that might, in my opinion, not he worth your time due to lack of motivation on the developers part to be worth yoIt time."

Defaming: "the devs are fucking liars and only care about money, so don't play their shitty game!"


Now, you can be rude with criticism for the sake of comedy, but that's clearly not what Tormental was going for.

Let me be perfectly clear here: I said that BMG COULD sue, not that will or should. I'm not lawyer, I merely suggested that they may have a case based on the little knowledge I had about the subject.

And lastly, I don't have the time nor the patience to go through Tormental's rants to find exact quotes, so allow me to paraphrase.

1: both Tormental and manga are always saying that they've "proven" that the devs are liars, yet I don't see any sound evidence that backs that up. There was one post that Achilles made about the friend cap where he got some fact wrong, and Tormental went to town about how that "proved" they were liars.

2: Tormental saying that he was banned from the forums for disagreeing with the devs. Anyone who has seen the posts he made knows that that simply isn't true. He often makes posts that are vulgar, degrading, and spiteful towards the people who disagree with him/ call him out on his bullshit. THAT'S why he was banned, not because he said that the Uriel skin was a LOL rip off (which is what he claims).

3: saying that bmg is swimming in cash. That's wrong. They aren't rich like he says they are, anyone who understands the most basic principles of developing and funding a free to play game will know that.

4: he clearly didn't do his homework on how merit points work, because he said things like "now everyone who paid for unlimited town points are getting screwed over" if he actually READ how it works, he would know that you get to KEEP the town points you had before the update. On a side note, he also said that "the only free thing about this game is no longer free"- you know, except for the game itself. That's still free....and the skins are still free if you grind long enough.

I could go on, but I don't really want/ need to. I think I've made my point here. In closing, Tormental's "argument" is based on personal grudges and invalid, biased reasoning.

[Stinko]

Defaming: "the devs are fucking liars and only care about money, so don't play their shitty game!"

in what video do i find this quote? Because it sounds like cartoon character quote and not a real person speaking

1: both Tormental and manga are always saying that they've "proven" that the devs are liars, yet I don't see any sound evidence that backs that up. There was one post that Achilles made about the friend cap where he got some fact wrong, and Tormental went to town about how that "proved" they were liars.

one mans "got a fact wrong" is another mans lie right? did achilles correct it? if so then he is okay and if not it seems suspicious

2: Tormental saying that he was banned from the forums for disagreeing with the devs. Anyone who has seen the posts he made knows that that simply isn't true. He often makes posts that are vulgar, degrading, and spiteful towards the people who disagree with him/ call him out on his bullshit. THAT'S why he was banned, not because he said that the Uriel skin was a LOL rip off (which is what he claims).

achilles said from what i saw that torm was banned for the video unless he 'got the fact wrong'? it was a long time ago but I remember thinking how unfair it is to ban from another web pages content and I know achilles said it was why

3: saying that bmg is swimming in cash. That's wrong. They aren't rich like he says they are, anyone who understands the most basic principles of developing and funding a free to play game will know that.

I hate to repeat but you have to tell me where you saw him say these things because its not in the video last he doesnt say they're rich so where do you get this?

4: he clearly didn't do his homework on how merit points work, because he said things like "now everyone who paid for unlimited town points are getting screwed over" if he actually READ how it works, he would know that you get to KEEP the town points you had before the update. On a side note, he also said that "the only free thing about this game is no longer free"- you know, except for the game itself. That's still free....and the skins are still free if you grind long enough.

i saw the video say that he thought to wonder what happened to unlimited points so you 'got this fact wrong'. also how can you say the game being free is something in the game thats free the game is inside itself according to this?

i think youre going too far and doing everything you say torm and magna do. maybe they do bad things but you're doing bad things so who are you to say it is bad.. ?? Also why do you all ignore magna that seems very much like you forget him entirely because you have the 'grudge' you accuse what about jedi ross dunce and all the people who say the same things

Maaaaybe you pick who has most views??

[JazzMusicStops]

Oh good lord the cancer has arrived already

Also @whoever said the customer is always right, that mentality only exists in fiction where they want the characters to suffer in a shitty retail job, the customer is not always right, that's not a thing that happens ever

[RetralMega]

This guy must be one of Magma's 5 fans.

[orangeandblack5]

Spoiler:

Defaming: "the devs are fucking liars and only care about money, so don't play their shitty game!"

in what video do i find this quote? Because it sounds like cartoon character quote and not a real person speaking

1: both Tormental and manga are always saying that they've "proven" that the devs are liars, yet I don't see any sound evidence that backs that up. There was one post that Achilles made about the friend cap where he got some fact wrong, and Tormental went to town about how that "proved" they were liars.

one mans "got a fact wrong" is another mans lie right? did achilles correct it? if so then he is okay and if not it seems suspicious

2: Tormental saying that he was banned from the forums for disagreeing with the devs. Anyone who has seen the posts he made knows that that simply isn't true. He often makes posts that are vulgar, degrading, and spiteful towards the people who disagree with him/ call him out on his bullshit. THAT'S why he was banned, not because he said that the Uriel skin was a LOL rip off (which is what he claims).

achilles said from what i saw that torm was banned for the video unless he 'got the fact wrong'? it was a long time ago but I remember thinking how unfair it is to ban from another web pages content and I know achilles said it was why

3: saying that bmg is swimming in cash. That's wrong. They aren't rich like he says they are, anyone who understands the most basic principles of developing and funding a free to play game will know that.

I hate to repeat but you have to tell me where you saw him say these things because its not in the video last he doesnt say they're rich so where do you get this?

4: he clearly didn't do his homework on how merit points work, because he said things like "now everyone who paid for unlimited town points are getting screwed over" if he actually READ how it works, he would know that you get to KEEP the town points you had before the update. On a side note, he also said that "the only free thing about this game is no longer free"- you know, except for the game itself. That's still free....and the skins are still free if you grind long enough.

i saw the video say that he thought to wonder what happened to unlimited points so you 'got this fact wrong'. also how can you say the game being free is something in the game thats free the game is inside itself according to this?

i think youre going too far and doing everything you say torm and magna do. maybe they do bad things but you're doing bad things so who are you to say it is bad.. ?? Also why do you all ignore magna that seems very much like you forget him entirely because you have the 'grudge' you accuse what about jedi ross dunce and all the people who say the same things

Maaaaybe you pick who has most views??

Pretty sure those last two points were directed at magna.

Anyways, he was not banned for a YouTube video, although obviously that didn't help his already terrible forum etiquette. Trying to call anybody that didn't like Tormental "biased" or "holding a grudge" is just ignoring the reality of his actions. Sorry you need some sort of proof instead of several eyewitnesses to his behavior, but much like other troll and useless-but-hateful posts, they were deleted.

[Magnasword2]

Pretty sure those last two points were directed at magna.

Anyways, he was not banned for a YouTube video, although obviously that didn't help his already terrible forum etiquette. Trying to call anybody that didn't like Tormental "biased" or "holding a grudge" is just ignoring the reality of his actions. Sorry you need some sort of proof instead of several eyewitnesses to his behavior, but much like other troll and useless-but-hateful posts, they were deleted.

Oh boy I just love being dragged back to deal with criticism here.

Okay let's first deal with this comment here: "Trying to call anybody that didn't like Tormental "biased" or "holding a grudge" This is misinformed. I only do this to people who have a ragey comment session without disproving his or my points. If they don't actually find anything decent to counter our arguments then it is clear they are acting on impulse either against Torm or out of a misguided attempt at loyalty to their game. My problem simply is these people don't even consider our points and just decide they are wrong unconditionally.

The reality of my actions is actually quite simple. I put out a video to inform as many people as I can of things that alot of people would be happier knowing than living in ignorance. I have no intrest in trying to enlighten those who aren't going to care or simply don't gaf. I need to erase the bad stigma I feel over supporting the game. Simple as that.

"Eyewitnesses to his behaviour" Lmao. You are not qualified to say what is good or bad behaviour. In fact my "behaviour" is only bad to you because I try to enforce change a little bit at a time and you panic because you don't want change. Simple as. I don't randomly attack people like Retral here does and neither do you so honestly I'm fine talking to you normally.

Finally my posts while my be useless to you since you've clearly decided to believe Blankmedia still give the chance for others to make their decisions. Information is a critical part of any community and it should not differentiate between the good and bad. Some people simply will want to know this as evidenced by the people who agree on mine and Torms videos. Despite what you think we are helping others to make an Informed decision.

As for deletions well... Would you really expect a business not to delete posts implicating them in shoddy practice.

I just love how everyone tries to enforce this idea that it's some sort of Offence for people to get annoyed at what people are doing nowadays. Especially when it's involved directly with harming other people. I guess nobody really cares anymore right?

[RetralMega]

You made a video of lies and assumptions.

[mdb1023]

Defaming: "the devs are fucking liars and only care about money, so don't play their shitty game!"

[b]in what video do i find this quote? Because it sounds like cartoon character quote and not a real person speaking[/

I didn't find it in a video, it was an EXAMPLE. If you bothered to read my post, you would know that.

i think youre going too far and doing everything you say torm and magna do. maybe they do bad things but you're doing bad things so who are you to say it is bad.. ?? Also why do you all ignore magna that seems very much like you forget him entirely because you have the 'grudge' you accuse what about jedi ross dunce and all the people who say the same things

Maaaaybe you pick who has most views??

So basically you're calling me a hypocrite? Classy. I may be a blunt asshole, but at least I don't harass people like Tormental does. Like I said in my post, you can be vulgar to an extent for the sake of comedy and/ or getting your point across, but when you start harassing and targeting specific people in a clearly hateful way, all bets are off.
I wasn't ignoring manga, this post was directed at both of them. To be honest, manga isn't my main concern here, and he isn't any less biased than Tormental, and he just doesn't listen to people. I presented him with facts and reasoning on a YouTube comment, and he responded by saying that I was "blind and stupid" because I choose to defend bmg. Then I told him I got both sides of the story and made a decision for myself based on the evidence from both sides, and he responded by saying that I must just be "baiting people." I asked him how he got to that conclusion, and he responded by linking a video or Robotnik saying no for thirty minutes. Frankly, manga is also a biased dumbass and I don't value his opinion in the slightest. Actually, both Tormental and Manga are immature, biased, and hateful people.
And as for your last point, I'm not just picking on people with the most views. I haven't even heard of those other people you mentioned, so I don't know what their arguments are. The only reason I even know who Tormental is is because of the huge blow up he caused on the forums.

Now, I have some words to say to Manga, but I have class for a while, so it'll have to wait.

[MrNSAagent]

Jesus Christ, people, this thread went from people's knee-jerk reaction about Merit Points to some people's YouTube videos.
Anyway, let's review what's being said here.
BMG supporters say that while the system is flawed, it is not entirely broken. They ask that people calm down, think for ten minutes, and suggest how to fix it. Or, if you truly believe it is broken, say what is broken about it.
Those who are against this keep accusing BMG for making an unnecessary money-grab and wasting the Kickstarter money in Las Vegas.

Seems to me that the Anti-BMG people are being childish. They keep bringing up points that were successfully countered way earlier. They're beating a dead horse.

You hate the system? Tell the devs how to fix it.
In fact, if you truly hate the system that much, STOP PLAYING THEIR GAME!
If you don't like them as much as you say they do, GET OFF THE FORUM AND GO PLAY SOME OTHER GAME!! DON'T RUIN IT FOR THOSE WHO ARE OKAY WITH IT!!!

[orangeandblack5]

Spoiler:

Pretty sure those last two points were directed at magna.

Anyways, he was not banned for a YouTube video, although obviously that didn't help his already terrible forum etiquette. Trying to call anybody that didn't like Tormental "biased" or "holding a grudge" is just ignoring the reality of his actions. Sorry you need some sort of proof instead of several eyewitnesses to his behavior, but much like other troll and useless-but-hateful posts, they were deleted.

Oh boy I just love being dragged back to deal with criticism here.

Okay let's first deal with this comment here: "Trying to call anybody that didn't like Tormental "biased" or "holding a grudge" This is misinformed. I only do this to people who have a ragey comment session without disproving his or my points. If they don't actually find anything decent to counter our arguments then it is clear they are acting on impulse either against Torm or out of a misguided attempt at loyalty to their game. My problem simply is these people don't even consider our points and just decide they are wrong unconditionally.

The reality of my actions is actually quite simple. I put out a video to inform as many people as I can of things that alot of people would be happier knowing than living in ignorance. I have no intrest in trying to enlighten those who aren't going to care or simply don't gaf. I need to erase the bad stigma I feel over supporting the game. Simple as that.

"Eyewitnesses to his behaviour" Lmao. You are not qualified to say what is good or bad behaviour. In fact my "behaviour" is only bad to you because I try to enforce change a little bit at a time and you panic because you don't want change. Simple as. I don't randomly attack people like Retral here does and neither do you so honestly I'm fine talking to you normally.

Finally my posts while my be useless to you since you've clearly decided to believe Blankmedia still give the chance for others to make their decisions. Information is a critical part of any community and it should not differentiate between the good and bad. Some people simply will want to know this as evidenced by the people who agree on mine and Torms videos. Despite what you think we are helping others to make an Informed decision.

As for deletions well... Would you really expect a business not to delete posts implicating them in shoddy practice.

I just love how everyone tries to enforce this idea that it's some sort of Offence for people to get annoyed at what people are doing nowadays. Especially when it's involved directly with harming other people. I guess nobody really cares anymore right?

[/quote]
Yeah, the only problem with you arguing what I said is that I have no problems with your actions. You may consider yourself "on Tormental's side", but all of my problems with him are based on his actions, not his ideas. You are fine in my book.
You assuming otherwise is assuming that I dislike you for your ideas; I have no such disposition. So stop lumping yourself in with Tormental, unless you also plan to start becoming a general nuisance and breaking forum rules.

[Stinko]

Pretty sure those last two points were directed at magna.

you need to be more clear then

Anyways, he was not banned for a YouTube video, although obviously that didn't help his already terrible forum etiquette. Trying to call anybody that didn't like Tormental "biased" or "holding a grudge" is just ignoring the reality of his actions. Sorry you need some sort of proof instead of several eyewitnesses to his behavior, but much like other troll and useless-but-hateful posts, they were deleted.

if you werent biased or holding the grudge you wouldn't be talking about all the youtubers in a thread about merit points but seriously

heres the thread since you didnt' ever see it viewtopic.php?f=7&t=40170&p=1278172&hilit=banned#p1278172

achilles says """the content of his video was very threatening towards the BMG staff and Town of Salem. We decided to make a stand that when someone is this threatening and aggressive towards us that it is time to do something about it and we banned him.""" and that means he was banned for the videos on youtube. please stop pretending other wise because saying torm is on thin ice but then they ban him because the video still means they banned him because the video and he was ban for talking bad about achilles and torm doesnt even threaten anyone meaning achilles even lied more

I didn't find it in a video, it was an EXAMPLE. If you bothered to read my post, you would know that.

you didn't say it was a made up example. you put quotes and said that was defamation after saying torm made defamation so to some people like me it sounds like your saying torm defames and then you quoted him to prove it. why didnt you actually quote the real defamation then does it exist?

So basically you're calling me a hypocrite? Classy. I may be a blunt asshole, but at least I don't harass people like Tormental does. Like I said in my post, you can be vulgar to an extent for the sake of comedy and/ or getting your point across, but when you start harassing and targeting specific people in a clearly hateful way, all bets are off.

what is an example of what you accuse? please give real example not made up sorry but i have to make that clear if it sounds mean. all you guys do in these posts is go about saying thing like 'user is just bad. user did a lie once' and expect people to just believe you over them without even saying what is the lie and instead making up examples of fake sentences?

[LevinSnakesRise]

Stinko, read this post and it pretty much should clear up your confusion, however this isn't about Tormental, and we're getting off-topic. Any further mentions of Tormenetal, Magna, or company practices related to this current off-topic discussion will be deleted for being off-topic. This is about Merit Points, and not YouTubers and their views on the company's practices.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=40170&p=1278172&hilit=banned#p1278268

[Stinko]

i was excited that you link to something torm did but instead its more talking about what torm did and not showing proof but thank you for agreeing this post shouldnt have been about youtubers i have no more post about it