blackaxe3 wrote:I completely disagree. Merging the retributionist and medium would be far too overpowered and the roles aren't unbalanced as they are. In addition, the retributionist was changed quite recently and it would not make sense to change it so soon.
As for the medium, while disliked by many players, is still a fair role. If people did not leave the game so often players would enjoy the medium more.
Soulshade55r wrote:I personally dislike dead chat interaction mechanic's such as the mediums, which either forces players to stay or leaves the medium with less info depending on things out of their hands.
Honestly rework Med, keep current retri.
Boredfan1 wrote:Soulshade55r wrote:I personally dislike dead chat interaction mechanic's such as the mediums, which either forces players to stay or leaves the medium with less info depending on things out of their hands.
Honestly rework Med, keep current retri.
No one is forced to stay, you stay because you are being considerate of the med or you have info that you need to pass onto the town. Honestly, it almost feels like throwing to not try to pass on information to the town through a medium that they don't already know.
Soulshade55r wrote:Boredfan1 wrote:Soulshade55r wrote:I personally dislike dead chat interaction mechanic's such as the mediums, which either forces players to stay or leaves the medium with less info depending on things out of their hands.
Honestly rework Med, keep current retri.
No one is forced to stay, you stay because you are being considerate of the med or you have info that you need to pass onto the town. Honestly, it almost feels like throwing to not try to pass on information to the town through a medium that they don't already know.
You should stay because of med. But my point is a role like that shouldn't exist in the first place.
I actually stay for mediums because i wanna help, but at the same time i can be critical of the design of a role that wants people to stay after dying.
They removed Retri revives now it's time to rework medium and to be gone with any dead interaction.
Boredfan1 wrote:Soulshade55r wrote:Boredfan1 wrote:Soulshade55r wrote:I personally dislike dead chat interaction mechanic's such as the mediums, which either forces players to stay or leaves the medium with less info depending on things out of their hands.
Honestly rework Med, keep current retri.
No one is forced to stay, you stay because you are being considerate of the med or you have info that you need to pass onto the town. Honestly, it almost feels like throwing to not try to pass on information to the town through a medium that they don't already know.
You should stay because of med. But my point is a role like that shouldn't exist in the first place.
I actually stay for mediums because i wanna help, but at the same time i can be critical of the design of a role that wants people to stay after dying.
They removed Retri revives now it's time to rework medium and to be gone with any dead interaction.
While I don't like med for multiple reasons, you have good reason to stay regardless of if there is a med or not because often, you can still win post-death unless you're witch, exe who didn't get their target hung, jester who died at night, survivor or your the last of your faction. Also, how would you rework med?
James2 wrote:I would support changing Ret so that, instead of being able to use each corpse once, the Ret was able to fully bring back one (and only one) dead player.
There is no issue with medium. If leavers are a problem (they are), the solution is to penalize them, not change the game to cater to them.
DecDecAttack wrote:Last will is literally the LAST will lol, nothing else is supposed to come after it.
(Also sheriff could just stay 1 night then leave)
2.) Add a "personal" graveyard for the Retributionist (or Medibutionist, merging the two changes together, but probably not) to use. This graveyard would have 3 blank town members for the Retributionist to use. The Retributionist could then choose to use one of their charges (by Selecting themselves for corpse use) and they select which role this corpse would have. Obviously, this would need some balancing, they probably would not be able to use a TK role N1. Similarly, they could only use one of the 4 different categories (Town Investigative/Killing/Protective/Supportive) per charge (and no repetition of role types). This would mean that one Retributionist could not just use a Vigilante for 3 nights, but would have to work with what they have.
- For example, N1 - Retributionist uses a Spy (Town Investigative) to get an idea about Mafia (and Coven) actions, N2 - Retributionist uses a Bodyguard (Town Protective) on themselves to protect themselves and N3 - they use a Vigilante (Town Killing) to murder a suspicious player.
SquireLoL wrote:2.) Add a "personal" graveyard for the Retributionist (or Medibutionist, merging the two changes together, but probably not) to use. This graveyard would have 3 blank town members for the Retributionist to use. The Retributionist could then choose to use one of their charges (by Selecting themselves for corpse use) and they select which role this corpse would have. Obviously, this would need some balancing, they probably would not be able to use a TK role N1. Similarly, they could only use one of the 4 different categories (Town Investigative/Killing/Protective/Supportive) per charge (and no repetition of role types). This would mean that one Retributionist could not just use a Vigilante for 3 nights, but would have to work with what they have.
- For example, N1 - Retributionist uses a Spy (Town Investigative) to get an idea about Mafia (and Coven) actions, N2 - Retributionist uses a Bodyguard (Town Protective) on themselves to protect themselves and N3 - they use a Vigilante (Town Killing) to murder a suspicious player.
More than just merging the two roles together, I believe this change is more reasonable for the Retributionist.
Furthermore, giving the Retributionist like 3 extra roles it could use, when it already can use 11 roles yet rarely can do so, does not fix the issue, just prolonged the means of actually addressing it.
(Also, fix the uniqueness problem regardless)
Soulshade55r wrote:SquireLoL wrote:2.) Add a "personal" graveyard for the Retributionist (or Medibutionist, merging the two changes together, but probably not) to use. This graveyard would have 3 blank town members for the Retributionist to use. The Retributionist could then choose to use one of their charges (by Selecting themselves for corpse use) and they select which role this corpse would have. Obviously, this would need some balancing, they probably would not be able to use a TK role N1. Similarly, they could only use one of the 4 different categories (Town Investigative/Killing/Protective/Supportive) per charge (and no repetition of role types). This would mean that one Retributionist could not just use a Vigilante for 3 nights, but would have to work with what they have.
- For example, N1 - Retributionist uses a Spy (Town Investigative) to get an idea about Mafia (and Coven) actions, N2 - Retributionist uses a Bodyguard (Town Protective) on themselves to protect themselves and N3 - they use a Vigilante (Town Killing) to murder a suspicious player.
More than just merging the two roles together, I believe this change is more reasonable for the Retributionist.
Furthermore, giving the Retributionist like 3 extra roles it could use, when it already can use 11 roles yet rarely can do so, does not fix the issue, just prolonged the means of actually addressing it.
(Also, fix the uniqueness problem regardless)
Giving retri more roles to use fixes a lot of issues what are you talking about? The main problem with retri is some town roles literally can't be used. A good example of adding more uses.
Jailor = rb/protect ~(bassically jail effects without the chat or exe, prolly replace it with a simple rb message)
Transporter = Transports (Self with target, if they couldn't program a 3rd button)
Vet = Gives retri a alert
Med = 1. Rework med anyway 2. let it use its new targeted ability
NOW retri gets more uses
You could also give retri a one or two time protection on a target "Intervention" or something where they select them self and give the second target basic defence.
It literally is so easy to fix retri without giving it a medium merge that this suggestion is baffling to many, because instead of looking on ways how to make the role more active epically if they just don't get a lot of the "right deaths" you suggest merging it with medium which medium has the same problem of slow information, heck medium is likely a worse offender of sitting and doing nothing compared to retri. It doesn't fix the role, the lazy suggestion doesn't come across as someone who is actually thinking about what would be balanced its just tack on two bad TS (imo retri is better then med by far) and hope it makes a slightly better ts.
Give RETRI some more use cases then the role is solved. Rework medium so its not a role that sits to be spoon-fed information, by dead players that will either leave or afk, Which i honestly cannot blame them because waiting in a match to tell the only role with dead interaction that possibly exists. (Which removes towns wins if they leave once dead)
Soulshade55r wrote:Dead Interaction is a bad mechanic, Kills should be a perma loss of that player, they shouldn't have any sort of Input (Other then last will) on the game after dying, working around one role instead of making the game better. feels awful to be the sheriff who dies n1 (or early) and has to watch the entire match because of mediums existence is bad design and isn't fun.
Reverting retri is even worse, it was a really bad role that was so broken yet so awful to play.
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