syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Did you think about...not claiming survivor?
Flavorable wrote:syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Did you think about...not claiming survivor?
I always claim Surv, and it is by far my best played role still, with the most amount of wins out of every role in the game.
I think Surv is more about attitude and being valuable to all factions, than it is about sitting idly by, or pretending you're something you're not.
DNKraken wrote:I think we can agree that survivor is a pretty boring role to play. Your only purpose is to survive until the end of the game.
It's pretty hard to confirm yourself unless an investigator does.
Survivor is an easy claim for evils, which is why people are always willing to lynch the poor surv claims. It sucks when the surv is legit, but its hard for them to confirm themself. Shit, even I lynch surv claims because most of the time, they are just untrustworthy and weak claims.
I think that the role should just be removed from the role list.
I'm not saying that the role should be deleted entirely because of Guardian Angels.
Guardian Angels are the only role that should claim survivor because it confirms them.
Its sort of how plaguebearer/pestilence works where you can't get pestilence from the role list, but you start as a plaguebearer. So, you can get guardian angel from the role list and you can become a survivor later.
Also, amnesiacs can turn into survivors too.
Lynching a survivor just seems like To Kill a Mockingbird, and it sucks lynching the real ones.
Boredfan1 wrote:DNKraken wrote:I think we can agree that survivor is a pretty boring role to play. Your only purpose is to survive until the end of the game.
It's pretty hard to confirm yourself unless an investigator does.
Survivor is an easy claim for evils, which is why people are always willing to lynch the poor surv claims. It sucks when the surv is legit, but its hard for them to confirm themself. Shit, even I lynch surv claims because most of the time, they are just untrustworthy and weak claims.
I think that the role should just be removed from the role list.
I'm not saying that the role should be deleted entirely because of Guardian Angels.
Guardian Angels are the only role that should claim survivor because it confirms them.
Its sort of how plaguebearer/pestilence works where you can't get pestilence from the role list, but you start as a plaguebearer. So, you can get guardian angel from the role list and you can become a survivor later.
Also, amnesiacs can turn into survivors too.
Lynching a survivor just seems like To Kill a Mockingbird, and it sucks lynching the real ones.
Honestly, it's the only viable thing to claim as amnesiac since if the vampires are wiped out, it isn't too hard to know you lied and you're now not vigilante. So if it's removed, that just makes amnesiac, a role that kind of sucks because you get peer pressured into stuff or executed out of fear, even worse.
alex1234321 wrote:Boredfan1 wrote:DNKraken wrote:I think we can agree that survivor is a pretty boring role to play. Your only purpose is to survive until the end of the game.
It's pretty hard to confirm yourself unless an investigator does.
Survivor is an easy claim for evils, which is why people are always willing to lynch the poor surv claims. It sucks when the surv is legit, but its hard for them to confirm themself. Shit, even I lynch surv claims because most of the time, they are just untrustworthy and weak claims.
I think that the role should just be removed from the role list.
I'm not saying that the role should be deleted entirely because of Guardian Angels.
Guardian Angels are the only role that should claim survivor because it confirms them.
Its sort of how plaguebearer/pestilence works where you can't get pestilence from the role list, but you start as a plaguebearer. So, you can get guardian angel from the role list and you can become a survivor later.
Also, amnesiacs can turn into survivors too.
Lynching a survivor just seems like To Kill a Mockingbird, and it sucks lynching the real ones.
Honestly, it's the only viable thing to claim as amnesiac since if the vampires are wiped out, it isn't too hard to know you lied and you're now not vigilante. So if it's removed, that just makes amnesiac, a role that kind of sucks because you get peer pressured into stuff or executed out of fear, even worse.
Or you can claim a different town role like Sheriff or Bodyguard like every other scum role has to. There aren't any rules against claiming outside your invest result.
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Without jailor meta tps are not easy to disprove at all
Boredfan1 wrote:alex1234321 wrote:Boredfan1 wrote:DNKraken wrote:I think we can agree that survivor is a pretty boring role to play. Your only purpose is to survive until the end of the game.
It's pretty hard to confirm yourself unless an investigator does.
Survivor is an easy claim for evils, which is why people are always willing to lynch the poor surv claims. It sucks when the surv is legit, but its hard for them to confirm themself. Shit, even I lynch surv claims because most of the time, they are just untrustworthy and weak claims.
I think that the role should just be removed from the role list.
I'm not saying that the role should be deleted entirely because of Guardian Angels.
Guardian Angels are the only role that should claim survivor because it confirms them.
Its sort of how plaguebearer/pestilence works where you can't get pestilence from the role list, but you start as a plaguebearer. So, you can get guardian angel from the role list and you can become a survivor later.
Also, amnesiacs can turn into survivors too.
Lynching a survivor just seems like To Kill a Mockingbird, and it sucks lynching the real ones.
Honestly, it's the only viable thing to claim as amnesiac since if the vampires are wiped out, it isn't too hard to know you lied and you're now not vigilante. So if it's removed, that just makes amnesiac, a role that kind of sucks because you get peer pressured into stuff or executed out of fear, even worse.
Or you can claim a different town role like Sheriff or Bodyguard like every other scum role has to. There aren't any rules against claiming outside your invest result.
Bodyguard is a stupid role to claim because one, it makes you vulnerable to evils and two, it is easy to disprove.
Doctor is a stupid role to claim for the same reason as bodyguard.
Escort is stupid for the same reason as doctor.
Sheriff is a bad role to claim because it's so easy to be exposed.
Transporter shouldn't be claimed unless there is a transporter but even then, it's pretty risky.
Mayor is stupid to claim because it's too easy of a lie to expose
Jailor is stupid to claim as you'll get executed or otherwise killed
ETC
There aren't many good roles to claim when evil.
alex1234321 wrote:Boredfan1 wrote:alex1234321 wrote:Boredfan1 wrote:DNKraken wrote:I think we can agree that survivor is a pretty boring role to play. Your only purpose is to survive until the end of the game.
It's pretty hard to confirm yourself unless an investigator does.
Survivor is an easy claim for evils, which is why people are always willing to lynch the poor surv claims. It sucks when the surv is legit, but its hard for them to confirm themself. Shit, even I lynch surv claims because most of the time, they are just untrustworthy and weak claims.
I think that the role should just be removed from the role list.
I'm not saying that the role should be deleted entirely because of Guardian Angels.
Guardian Angels are the only role that should claim survivor because it confirms them.
Its sort of how plaguebearer/pestilence works where you can't get pestilence from the role list, but you start as a plaguebearer. So, you can get guardian angel from the role list and you can become a survivor later.
Also, amnesiacs can turn into survivors too.
Lynching a survivor just seems like To Kill a Mockingbird, and it sucks lynching the real ones.
Honestly, it's the only viable thing to claim as amnesiac since if the vampires are wiped out, it isn't too hard to know you lied and you're now not vigilante. So if it's removed, that just makes amnesiac, a role that kind of sucks because you get peer pressured into stuff or executed out of fear, even worse.
Or you can claim a different town role like Sheriff or Bodyguard like every other scum role has to. There aren't any rules against claiming outside your invest result.
Bodyguard is a stupid role to claim because one, it makes you vulnerable to evils and two, it is easy to disprove.
Doctor is a stupid role to claim for the same reason as bodyguard.
Escort is stupid for the same reason as doctor.
Sheriff is a bad role to claim because it's so easy to be exposed.
Transporter shouldn't be claimed unless there is a transporter but even then, it's pretty risky.
Mayor is stupid to claim because it's too easy of a lie to expose
Jailor is stupid to claim as you'll get executed or otherwise killed
ETC
There aren't many good roles to claim when evil.
One of the biggest problems with the game is how easily Town roles can confirm themselves. But there isn't anything specifically wrong with Survivor causing it to have a hard time fakeclaiming compared to other non-Town roles. If it was really so hard to claim all those roles then all scum would be lynched instantly every game. The point of claims isn't to permanently deceive the Town. It's to trick the town for just long enough to reach majority. So a Survivor, just like any other non-Town role, can claim roles like Bodyguard, Doctor, Sheriff, and Medium and have a reasonable chance of getting away with it for 2-3 days before the outcome of the game is no longer in doubt. And of course they can still go for claims like Investigator, Lookout, Spy, and Escort if the situation permits it and there's always the option of telling the truth. Anyway, any role that can confirm itself should either be removed from Ranked or modified to no longer be confirmable such as silent transports. But this isn't a problem specific to Survivor and Survivor certainly shouldn't be changed because it's too hard to fakeclaim as.
Boredfan1 wrote: Spoiler:
1-Evils very often do get lynched instantly for fake claiming.
2-Evils rarely get majority.
3-Sheriff is easy to disprove like I said
4-No one trusts medium, they almost always get lynched or exed or otherwise killed at night
5-Claiming invest, LO, Spy and ESC puts a huge target on your back and increases your chances of getting killed
6-Every role except mafia or other evils can confirm themselves so basically, there should be instant winning evil roles.
alex1234321 wrote:Boredfan1 wrote: Spoiler:
1-Evils very often do get lynched instantly for fake claiming.
2-Evils rarely get majority.
3-Sheriff is easy to disprove like I said
4-No one trusts medium, they almost always get lynched or exed or otherwise killed at night
5-Claiming invest, LO, Spy and ESC puts a huge target on your back and increases your chances of getting killed
6-Every role except mafia or other evils can confirm themselves so basically, there should be instant winning evil roles.
1- Yes, and it should be easier for them to reliably fakeclaim. But that's an issue that pertains to all evil roles, and fakeclaiming is almost always better than telling the truth for most evil roles.
2- If this were true, evils would rarely win. They still win a fair share of games, so they have to get majority pretty often.
3- All claims will eventually be disproven, but a Sheriff claim can often last the player a day or two at least. And if you're Neutral and good at scumreading you could fake a red check.
4- Any Town that instantly lynches someone because they claimed a certain role is a dumb Town. If that were the optimal strategy, then fewer players would claim Medium and it wouldn't be optimal anymore.
5- If you're a Survivor you've got four vests for a reason. The only other non-Town roles that have to worry about this are Amne and Jester.
6- I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
Anyway, the main topic of this thread is Survivor. Any real or imagined problems related to evils fakeclaiming are going to hold for other evil roles as much if not more than Survivor, so it wouldn't make sense to change Survivor specifically to fix a problem that has to do with other roles. The only difference is that Survivor is on its own, but so is every other Neutral role. If you want to reduce Town confirmability, I'm all for that, but I don't see why Survivor needs special treatment.
Boredfan1 wrote:alex1234321 wrote:Boredfan1 wrote: Spoiler:
1-Evils very often do get lynched instantly for fake claiming.
2-Evils rarely get majority.
3-Sheriff is easy to disprove like I said
4-No one trusts medium, they almost always get lynched or exed or otherwise killed at night
5-Claiming invest, LO, Spy and ESC puts a huge target on your back and increases your chances of getting killed
6-Every role except mafia or other evils can confirm themselves so basically, there should be instant winning evil roles.
1- Yes, and it should be easier for them to reliably fakeclaim. But that's an issue that pertains to all evil roles, and fakeclaiming is almost always better than telling the truth for most evil roles.
2- If this were true, evils would rarely win. They still win a fair share of games, so they have to get majority pretty often.
3- All claims will eventually be disproven, but a Sheriff claim can often last the player a day or two at least. And if you're Neutral and good at scumreading you could fake a red check.
4- Any Town that instantly lynches someone because they claimed a certain role is a dumb Town. If that were the optimal strategy, then fewer players would claim Medium and it wouldn't be optimal anymore.
5- If you're a Survivor you've got four vests for a reason. The only other non-Town roles that have to worry about this are Amne and Jester.
6- I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
Anyway, the main topic of this thread is Survivor. Any real or imagined problems related to evils fakeclaiming are going to hold for other evil roles as much if not more than Survivor, so it wouldn't make sense to change Survivor specifically to fix a problem that has to do with other roles. The only difference is that Survivor is on its own, but so is every other Neutral role. If you want to reduce Town confirmability, I'm all for that, but I don't see why Survivor needs special treatment.
It's like you've never played Town of Salem....Literally all your counterpoints go against how the game actually gets played. Take mafia for example, people usually leave within the first day as mafia and are so easily lynched that it's quite hard to get the majority. And no, medium isn't an optimal role, people are as I've said, super suspicious of those claims and love to lynch and execute or shoot anyone who claims it. Also, just because you have vests, don't mean you are 100% safe, you can get rbed. And as for that last point, the point is that there's no point in removing roles that can confirm themselves because then there'd be no roles on town's side for an actual match because they all do.
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