I got a lot to say all of a sudden, so here we go.

[SilverCruz]

Part 1 - "Is the mythical "leaver buster" even a good idea?"

My position is that it is not. Here is the evidence.

1 - There is already a system in place to manage this behaviour. There's a healthy amount of volunteers who are willing to look over in-game reports, so there is no need to automate this.

2 - The atmosphere of the game is already incredibly hostile. You leave a round because you're a Mafia, the rest of the Mafia is dead by Day 3, and the entire town is still alive? Well, you're just the scum of the earth, here's your suspension, it will never roll off so if you don't like it then just stop playing the game. Why should I financially support a game that decided that I was worth punishing for not staying in an incredibly unfair round where I lost half my team through no fault of my own? Speaking of...

3 - It is evidently distracting from actually improving the game. I mean, correct me if I don't have this right, but this game seems to be a little spartan as far as gameplay updates go. Let's ignore that the Jailor has been incredibly overpowered for years and focus on a few simple questions and answers. Why is it bad for the Medium when town players quit after they die? Because the Medium can't get any information from them. What could be done about this? Implement a Night Ability for the Medium that allows them to get that information even if those players have left the game? Evidently not, let's just work on an overcomplicated, overbearing punishment robot instead! What about live leavers? What should we do about that? Implement Quitbots so that neither faction is instantly and blatantly decapitated if they lose a key member like the Godfather or Jailor? No! Just work on an overcomplicated, overbearing punishment robot instead! Talk about any of this with the players in a direct manner? Nope! Punishment robot! This is the only thing I've actually seen word of being in development since my return (that doesn't include whatever those banners in the announcement forum says because they say nothing), and I don't think that's a very good look. Instead of trying to stop natural player behaviour because they're playing the game quote unquote "wrong", build infrastructure around it so that it's not as damaging. Don't quitbust, quitproof. Also, considering that I only just learned that this game quit the free-to-play model, it turns out that this is even more unexcusable. Again, correct me if I have this wrong, but it seems like your goal is to kick out paying customers who don't do exactly as you say, rather than making the game harder to disrupt. You're trying to get rid of what you see as the weeds but you're going to destroy the entire garden at this rate.

Part 2 - This game is a joke.

Moving off slightly, I'm gonna springboard off this and pick out a comment from the pay to play announcement. "Now that we are no longer free to play we will be having a very large focus on cleaning up the community and creating a fun and safe environment for everyone to have quality games." That was two years ago. You've failed! You've still got people spamming racial slurs, being completely and intentionally useless by spamming the chat with irrelevant garbage and getting lynched by the town just to shut them up only for it to turn out, whoops, they were the almighty Jailor, quitting Day 1 for no stated reason, it's been two years and this community is rotten! If I had to take a guess, I'd say it's because you're not setting a good example, here, looping it back to this apparent hyper-focus on punishing people for playing wrong or the aforementioned quitting on Day 1 instead of actually working to minimize the effect of what they're doing. Must I remind you that Team Fortress 2 is also in the middle of a bot crisis and choking out free-to-play accounts has done nothing to solve the problem? The only thing Valve has actually done relating to that is in service of their image by preventing bots from spewing racist rhetoric on their platform, but the bots still show up, they still cheat and ruin Casual mode, and going back to pay-to-play would just result in that game's flow of new players getting dammed. Sound familiar?

You know why people quit on Day 1? I'm sure some of them do it just ruin the game, but I also bet you others do it because they're not happy with the game. The Mafia sucks to play as because of the Jailor! There's always a Jailor, and nine times out of ten the first thing out of their mouth is "im jailor tplo on me", and you know what you can do about that as the Mafia? Nothing! You can't punish this behaviour because they are guaranteed to either have a Doctor and be unkillable without getting that Doctor first, or a Bodyguard in which case you can't deal with that without losing your Mafioso, at which point you've only made the Jailor even stronger because you can now get completely deadlocked, at which point they can just keep jailing the Godfather without executing until the Town Investigatives fish out the remaining Mafia and Witch, and it's game over. Or, considering there are three Random Towns, they might have one of each, or two Doctors or Bodyguards, so they're even more invincible than usual! Does that sound like a nice time to you? Because it's not! It's miserable, and the point is exacerbated by the Jailor being the only static town role, which gives off the impression that this game is intentionally balanced around the town having one overpowered role that they can always rely on to bail them out of trouble, which also goes the other way and if the Jailor dies or quits during the first night, then the town is going to feel really deflated because they lost the intentionally overpowered role they're supposed to be entitled to! The gameplay has trained the town to get upset if the almighty Jailor stops being there to protect them early in the game, and the Mafia to always expect to lose every round because of the almighty Jailor.

Like I said. People are not happy with this game. The experience is horrible because you're seemingly more tunnel-visioned on trying to punish everyone who slights your view of a perfect world than actually trying to make the world as it is better, running a dramatization of the source material in how you treat the community instead of doing anything to help them!

Part 3 - So, here's how I think you could go about fixing all that.

Number 1, abandon this leaver buster nonsense. Focus on actually improving the game mechanically and making leaving less harmful to the round experience. You can cite this as a place to maybe start with that since I will admit that Quitbots are a tall order (also make Forger and Janitor able to target Mafia at will so they can at least use a quitting Godfather/Mafioso as a stiff to disrupt the Graveyard and obscure the fact that they've already been decapitated). You're already too harsh on leaving games as-is, so getting even harsher will just drive everyone away.

Number 2, go back to free-to-play. If the bots come back, then don't ban them. Instead, silently mark them to only get matched up with other tagged bots so that their handlers don't know that anything is wrong. I can't guarantee that would work, but it'd be worth a try, and if it does fail then well, that's brainstorming time, or time to get some staff devoted to curbing that, but the way you have things now is not really much of an improvement at all.

Number 3, either stop selling the Coven expansion as a separate product and just give it to everyone (with requiring a buy-in these days it's just double-dipping, honestly), or make it purchasable wholesale with Town Points and add a way to receive Town Points in game (wasn't there a system where you could watch some ads for town points before?). Splitting the playerbase like this is a bad move, and it just serves to make people run into the same bad actors more frequently, which serves as a further detriment to their experience and gives them a deeper negative impression of the game.

Number 4, Open the PTR and nerf the Jailor in it. My call is to prevent it from jailing the same person two nights in a row to prevent them from deadlocking, holding a non-Killing role hostage, or keeping a revealed Mayor protected, and to make the Witch force it to execute by making them self-target instead of needing to hit the jailed target to kill this Mayor Game 2.0 meta (note that as a nerf, this is situational to there being a static Witch or Neutral Evil in the Ranked list, and other nerfs, such as making jailed Serial Killers and Werewolves ignore Doctors and Bodyguards when attacking and making the Arsonist douse the Jailor if jailed and not executed could be considered if they aren't enough overall). These should both be incredibly easy adjustments to make, and there's no harm in just launching them on the PTR where they can't harm the main build of the game to see how things turn out. Throwing concepts at the wall haphazardly is better than the nothing that's been going on lately, so give it a try, maybe?

[EqsyLootz]

Alright since you're getting on my nerves it's time for me to respond to all of this. Please take the time to read this, you may gladly disagree with whatever you feel like I am saying but I will clarify a few things for you.

Part 1 - "Is the mythical "leaver buster" even a good idea?"

My position is that it is not. Here is the evidence.

1 - There is already a system in place to manage this behaviour. There's a healthy amount of volunteers who are willing to look over in-game reports, so there is no need to automate this.

Spoiler: You can't possibly expect us trial volunteers to do absolutely everything to deal with leaving. Based on statistics approximately 400 new leaving reports get summited to the queue that we the jurors have to go looking through. The queue is brainless there is absolutely no point in handling those reports simply because 95% of the time you press Innocent and move on with your life simply because only intentional leaving and or afking is punishable. Now you're over here talking as if you think the Job is quite simple having to deal with each individual braindead report. Obviously leaving is quite a braindead queue so it is not that difficult for us jurors to go through but it is very lengthy. However it should also be taken into consideration Leaving is probably the least important queue there is whereas the most of us prefer to focus on Gamethrowing, HS/H or IGN. An automate bot would make things MUCH simpler and would save the lot of us from having to deal with the leaving queue and focus on others.

2 - The atmosphere of the game is already incredibly hostile. You leave a round because you're a Mafia, the rest of the Mafia is dead by Day 3, and the entire town is still alive? Well, you're just the scum of the earth, here's your suspension, it will never roll off so if you don't like it then just stop playing the game. Why should I financially support a game that decided that I was worth punishing for not staying in an incredibly unfair round where I lost half my team through no fault of my own? Speaking of...

Spoiler: It's as simple as don't break the rules and don't be punished. Leaving on purpose is indeed a punishable offence as you are ruining your chance to win which in other words are gamethrowing. Just learn from your mistakes. Move on, there's absolutely no need to continue this bickering about how the trial system works.

3 - It is evidently distracting from actually improving the game. I mean, correct me if I don't have this right, but this game seems to be a little spartan as far as gameplay updates go. Let's ignore that the Jailor has been incredibly overpowered for years and focus on a few simple questions and answers. Why is it bad for the Medium when town players quit after they die? Because the Medium can't get any information from them. What could be done about this? Implement a Night Ability for the Medium that allows them to get that information even if those players have left the game? Evidently not, let's just work on an overcomplicated, overbearing punishment robot instead! What about live leavers? What should we do about that? Implement Quitbots so that neither faction is instantly and blatantly decapitated if they lose a key member like the Godfather or Jailor? No! Just work on an overcomplicated, overbearing punishment robot instead! Talk about any of this with the players in a direct manner? Nope! Punishment robot! This is the only thing I've actually seen word of being in development since my return (that doesn't include whatever those banners in the announcement forum says because they say nothing), and I don't think that's a very good look. Instead of trying to stop natural player behaviour because they're playing the game quote unquote "wrong", build infrastructure around it so that it's not as damaging. Don't quitbust, quitproof. Also, considering that I only just learned that this game quit the free-to-play model, it turns out that this is even more unexcusable. Again, correct me if I have this wrong, but it seems like your goal is to kick out paying customers who don't do exactly as you say, rather than making the game harder to disrupt. You're trying to get rid of what you see as the weeds but you're going to destroy the entire garden at this rate.

Spoiler: First of all, you need to take into huge consideration how difficult it is to be a game developper. Blank Media Games is not a huge widescale company with hundreds upon hundreds of developpers. They are simply a smaller team who work on fixing Town of Salem so you should really cut them some slack. You are expection so much (Add quit bots, fix jailor etc.) It takes a long time for testing, programming and planning. A quitbot would take AGES to work around therefore for the meantime it is best to have a system which automatically punishes certain users if they have tendency to frequently leave games to save time not only for our jurors but also the dev team. Now your last comment is just ridiculous. I notice you've had ToS for a long time now I'm certain you remember the large scale botting that completely ruined the game. Adding P2P was one of the best decisions BMG could do to prevent large scale botting and rulebreakers. You may argue there are still racists, spammers etc. But not as many as there used to be thanks to the new system. Not to mention if they happen to make a new account to troll and spam they won't last long thanks to the trial system and the work of the Judges and Gmods. BMG also needs money (As do every single gaming company) in order to continue developping their game.

Part 2 - This game is a joke.

Moving off slightly, I'm gonna springboard off this and pick out a comment from the pay to play announcement. "Now that we are no longer free to play we will be having a very large focus on cleaning up the community and creating a fun and safe environment for everyone to have quality games." That was two years ago. You've failed! You've still got people spamming racial slurs, being completely and intentionally useless by spamming the chat with irrelevant garbage and getting lynched by the town just to shut them up only for it to turn out, whoops, they were the almighty Jailor, quitting Day 1 for no stated reason, it's been two years and this community is rotten! If I had to take a guess, I'd say it's because you're not setting a good example, here, looping it back to this apparent hyper-focus on punishing people for playing wrong or the aforementioned quitting on Day 1 instead of actually working to minimize the effect of what they're doing. Must I remind you that Team Fortress 2 is also in the middle of a bot crisis and choking out free-to-play accounts has done nothing to solve the problem? The only thing Valve has actually done relating to that is in service of their image by preventing bots from spewing racist rhetoric on their platform, but the bots still show up, they still cheat and ruin Casual mode, and going back to pay-to-play would just result in that game's flow of new players getting dammed. Sound familiar?

Spoiler: As I stated previously, since P2P the community has gotten much better and much more enjoyable to be around. If there are still rulebreakers the Jurors and Judges will handle it. that's all there is to it. I don't see how the Judges, Gmods and Devs are setting a poor example. There aren't as many Jurors as you think who are incredibly active. Each queue is handled on a day to day basis. Racist spammers and such are dealt either privately or via the HS/H Queue. Then Gamethrowers are dealt in their own queue as such. You are saying we should focus on HS/H but it needs to be fairly distributed too. The Gamethrowing queue is substantially bigger compared to others. gonna just ignore the TF2 part as it's irrelevant.

You know why people quit on Day 1? I'm sure some of them do it just ruin the game, but I also bet you others do it because they're not happy with the game. The Mafia sucks to play as because of the Jailor! There's always a Jailor, and nine times out of ten the first thing out of their mouth is "im jailor tplo on me", and you know what you can do about that as the Mafia? Nothing! You can't punish this behaviour because they are guaranteed to either have a Doctor and be unkillable without getting that Doctor first, or a Bodyguard in which case you can't deal with that without losing your Mafioso, at which point you've only made the Jailor even stronger because you can now get completely deadlocked, at which point they can just keep jailing the Godfather without executing until the Town Investigatives fish out the remaining Mafia and Witch, and it's game over. Or, considering there are three Random Towns, they might have one of each, or two Doctors or Bodyguards, so they're even more invincible than usual! Does that sound like a nice time to you? Because it's not! It's miserable, and the point is exacerbated by the Jailor being the only static town role, which gives off the impression that this game is intentionally balanced around the town having one overpowered role that they can always rely on to bail them out of trouble, which also goes the other way and if the Jailor dies or quits during the first night, then the town is going to feel really deflated because they lost the intentionally overpowered role they're supposed to be entitled to! The gameplay has trained the town to get upset if the almighty Jailor stops being there to protect them early in the game, and the Mafia to always expect to lose every round because of the almighty Jailor.

Spoiler: Only thing I can really comment about this is get good at the game. There are ways to work around it. Some games are more RNG influenced then others which is unfortunate but there are ways to counter jailor Meta and dead locks.

Like I said. People are not happy with this game. The experience is horrible because you're seemingly more tunnel-visioned on trying to punish everyone who slights your view of a perfect world than actually trying to make the world as it is better, running a dramatization of the source material in how you treat the community instead of doing anything to help them!

Part 3 - So, here's how I think you could go about fixing all that.

Number 1, abandon this leaver buster nonsense. Focus on actually improving the game mechanically and making leaving less harmful to the round experience. You can cite this as a place to maybe start with that since I will admit that Quitbots are a tall order (also make Forger and Janitor able to target Mafia at will so they can at least use a quitting Godfather/Mafioso as a stiff to disrupt the Graveyard and obscure the fact that they've already been decapitated). You're already too harsh on leaving games as-is, so getting even harsher will just drive everyone away.

Number 2, go back to free-to-play. If the bots come back, then don't ban them. Instead, silently mark them to only get matched up with other tagged bots so that their handlers don't know that anything is wrong. I can't guarantee that would work, but it'd be worth a try, and if it does fail then well, that's brainstorming time, or time to get some staff devoted to curbing that, but the way you have things now is not really much of an improvement at all.

Number 3, either stop selling the Coven expansion as a separate product and just give it to everyone (with requiring a buy-in these days it's just double-dipping, honestly), or make it purchasable wholesale with Town Points and add a way to receive Town Points in game (wasn't there a system where you could watch some ads for town points before?). Splitting the playerbase like this is a bad move, and it just serves to make people run into the same bad actors more frequently, which serves as a further detriment to their experience and gives them a deeper negative impression of the game.

Number 4, Open the PTR and nerf the Jailor in it. My call is to prevent it from jailing the same person two nights in a row to prevent them from deadlocking, holding a non-Killing role hostage, or keeping a revealed Mayor protected, and to make the Witch force it to execute by making them self-target instead of needing to hit the jailed target to kill this Mayor Game 2.0 meta (note that as a nerf, this is situational to there being a static Witch or Neutral Evil in the Ranked list, and other nerfs, such as making jailed Serial Killers and Werewolves ignore Doctors and Bodyguards when attacking and making the Arsonist douse the Jailor if jailed and not executed could be considered if they aren't enough overall). These should both be incredibly easy adjustments to make, and there's no harm in just launching them on the PTR where they can't harm the main build of the game to see how things turn out. Throwing concepts at the wall haphazardly is better than the nothing that's been going on lately, so give it a try, maybe?

Spoiler: Ok so your brilliant 200 IQ game developer plan is to first of all focus on spending Hours upon Hours of time to develop new systems to help the game. Sure that sounds great bit what comes after is just stupid. Now you're expecting them to return to F2P AND remove the coven expansion. So now you have a dev team who's spending many months working on a game without getting payed. Brillant idea. You also complain about Racists, Spammers and such now you want P2P back so you people can easily break rules more frequently, create a new account and move on. Not only is that incredibly selfish to the jurors and judges whom work hard to keep this community clean but it's selfish to the players too who have to deal with this. Then you want to Open PTR. I actually agree with your final point, adding more opportunities for testing would be brilliant but of course the only issue is a smaller dev team and it takes long time so it's best to just give the dev team some slack so they can of course impress us with the future updates.

Wow that took a lil while Anyways TL;DR Free to Play bad, Trial System good but need help, stop expecting so much from a small dev team.

[SilverCruz]

Okay, here, I really, really want a developer to prove me wrong if I am wrong to be proven, those two changes in particular (no consecutive jailing, Witch self-targeting) I cannot see how they would be even remotely complicated to set up. Like, for example, if you get doused, you are doused, which means you have stopped not being doused. Logically, that means there must be something akin to an "isdoused" player variable that is 0 when not doused and 1 when doused. Therefore, it should not be too hard to add a "wasjailed" player variable that becomes 1 when the player is jailed, stays at 1 the next day, and if wasjailed == 1, then make the button to jail them not appear. Once night comes and they are not jailed, then wasjailed changes back to 0 and they can be jailed again.

Of course, I don't know exactly how this thing is coded and my understanding is scattershot at best, but I'd find it weird if it weren't that simple. Likewise, allowing the Forger and Janitor to target Mafia at will should be pretty easy too.

[Flavorable]

Okay, here, I really, really want a developer to prove me wrong if I am wrong to be proven, those two changes in particular (no consecutive jailing, Witch self-targeting) I cannot see how they would be even remotely complicated to set up. Like, for example, if you get doused, you are doused, which means you have stopped not being doused. Logically, that means there must be something akin to an "isdoused" player variable that is 0 when not doused and 1 when doused. Therefore, it should not be too hard to add a "wasjailed" player variable that becomes 1 when the player is jailed, stays at 1 the next day, and if wasjailed == 1, then make the button to jail them not appear. Once night comes and they are not jailed, then wasjailed changes back to 0 and they can be jailed again.

Of course, I don't know exactly how this thing is coded and my understanding is scattershot at best, but I'd find it weird if it weren't that simple. Likewise, allowing the Forger and Janitor to target Mafia at will should be pretty easy too.

Chain-jailing is only a problem in Ranked from my experience. I personally don't see why a role should be changed solely because a handful of (the already small % of the community) Ranked players can't play around it.

[SilverCruz]

I don't follow. What's your defense?

[EqsyLootz]

I don't follow. What's your defense?

Jailor shouldn't be changed to sum it up.

[SilverCruz]

I didn't ask you.

[EqsyLootz]

I didn't ask you.

I summed it up quite briefly based on what Flavorable was stated. She mentioned the only issues involved around Jailor are specified in ranked of which the large majority of players do not exactly play. But even so in higher rankings there are ways to counter Jailor easily if proper skill and strategies are involved.

[SilverCruz]

Okay, so what proper skill and strategy is involved to escape a deadlock alive when the Mafioso got killed by a Veteran or something?

In fact, let's have a little fun with this. I'm the Jailor, and you're the Godfather. The Mafioso is dead, and I've just jailed you arbitrarily. I don't execute you, and nobody is killed by the Mafia. What do you do next on the following day?

[EqsyLootz]

Okay, so what proper skill and strategy is involved to escape a deadlock alive when the Mafioso got killed by a Veteran or something?

Skill as in Don't attack Veterans.. If not it's always possible to weasle your way out of it using Witch to try to kill jailor, or other methods of killing

[SilverCruz]

Okay, so what proper skill and strategy is involved to escape a deadlock alive when the Mafioso got killed by a Veteran or something?

Skill as in Don't attack Veterans.. If not it's always possible to weasle your way out of it using Witch to try to kill jailor, or other methods of killing

Sorry, but it was a completely arbitrary N1 attack because the only thing anyone said on Day 1 was "im jailor tplo on me", and there doesn't seem to be a Vigilante around. So what's your move?

[dolphina]

literally all of this conjecture is based on if you were playing ranked

[SilverCruz]

It's a simulation of a realistic game situation.

[dolphina]

It's a simulation of a realistic game situation.

Yes, but this only affects a small amount of the playerbase, since from my experience, not a whole lot of people play Ranked consistently. Even with me, I find All Any to be much more fun. Usually the only people who play Ranked are people who own the game and don’t own the Coven Expansion, because, from my experience, once you Coven All Any, you never go back. Besides, why would the devs change a feature just because it’s a problem in just a portion of the already kinda small Ranked community?

[SilverCruz]

Why would fighting game devs want to patch out an infinite combo when only a small number of players know how to do it?

[dbpeanut]

It's a simulation of a realistic game situation.

Yes, but this only affects a small amount of the playerbase, since from my experience, not a whole lot of people play Ranked consistently. Even with me, I find All Any to be much more fun. Usually the only people who play Ranked are people who own the game and don’t own the Coven Expansion, because, from my experience, once you Coven All Any, you never go back. Besides, why would the devs change a feature just because it’s a problem in just a portion of the already kinda small Ranked community?

It's not just a problem in Ranked. It's a problem in almost every mode as long as Jailor is present. I don't like to comment on balancing issues often, but the Jailor problem is widely known in multiple modes. A lot of people tend to claim "I was attacked in jail" for this exact reason. But it doesn't always work. This is why jailing multiple nights in a row can be a huge issue and completely uncounterable. I get it, we all play something other than classic, but if the problem still exists, it becomes luck based. Which still makes it an issue.

This guy has very valid criticisms of the game, likely he's been playing as long or longer than us. For as long as I've played the game, the majority of what he's brought up has been an issue.
The difference is he wants dev input, not community input. To him, the lack of action by the devs hurts more than community actions.

[SilverCruz]

Summed up beautifully. And yeah, the "I was attacked in jail." line doesn't work. Any Jailor worth his salt will just jail you again and see what happens regardless of what you say because the optimal Jailor play once the Mafioso is out (whether by going down or promoting) is to deadlock and let the Investigatives do their work, lynch off the rest of the Mafia, and then execute once there's nobody left to become a Mafioso. The only time an optimal Jailor would want to execute before then is if you've come up on the stalemate deadline, and even then you're not going to actually execute them, you just lynch the guy off and jail someone else, then deadlock them if it turns out another night goes with nobody going down, or move on to the next one if that doesn't happen. The optimal way to play Jailor is also the way that sucks the most for everyone who's not the Jailor, and I see it as a major problem that the role's optimal strategy (deadlocking) is so unfair. The only thing the Mafia can try to do to counter it is to fake a deadlock by not attacking once the Mafioso is gone, but best case scenario the Jailor executes a townie and loses their execution, but they can still deadlock, and this is not always practical depending on the amount of TIs left or other circumstances, and isn't worth it at all if you're not doing something immediately useful in the meantime like using a Consigliere to try to find the Bodyguard so you can just ice the Jailor and move on.

That second part is really important too. Does racist spam and bad sportsmanship hurt the game? Sure, ignoring that the game's definition of bad sportsmanship is not the same as mine. But nothing can hurt the game more than developer negligence. I don't have a clue of what's going on behind the scenes besides something that I think will be incredibly harmful to the game (especially if you start punishing dead leaves, that will kill this game very quickly because nobody wants to get killed by the Mafia Night 1 as a Jester then wait around for a match that means nothing to them to end, and if you try to make them do it anyway they're going to look for something else to do that doesn't feel like as much of a waste of time), and I haven't noticed any developers being particularly responsive in the Suggestions, Feedback, or Role Ideas forums, those being the exact spots I would expect at least one of them to be the most active. I admit, I don't know the full extent of the pre-pay-to-play bot crisis because I quit for a long time due to the Jailor frustrating me that much (and upon coming back, literally nothing has changed about the Jailor), but I do not have a good feeling about the place this game is in and where it seems to be going.

Please. Pay attention to people who have things to say about your game that aren't nice. There's a line, of course, if they're just saying "game sucks you suck go work at mcdonalds", then ignore them, sure. If they're drilling into the idea that the intentionally most important role in the game might be really overpowered and unfair, that's probably worth considering and/or surveying other players about. A lot of people, if they don't like the game, will just quit playing without a word and you've lost them, you need to take negative feedback into consideration or you'll get stuck in your outlook of how this game is and should be even if it's not accurate to the players' outlooks, and then you'll waste time developing a draconian anti-leaving robot instead of taking steps to prevent quitting players from being so harmful to the game in the first place. Replacing the Retributionist with the new Retributionist was a solid move, I'd say that they're distinct enough that they could easily co-exist without it being weird, but between the two the modern one just works better because it doesn't care if players quit (and for some reason people were really against my concept of quitproofing the old Retributionist by allowing it to become the role of a player who has left the game, somewhat akin to an Amnesiac), and the more aspects of the game that can still work even if players quit, the better (again, see the Medium Quitproofing post in Role Ideas).

[cob709]

The leave buster is designed to punish players that disconnect from the game while alive.

[SilverCruz]

Leaving while alive is not always unforgivable.

[cob709]

Leaving while alive is not always unforgivable.

The first few times that a player disconnects is forgiven. However, repeatedly leaving indicates a problem, and is punished as such.

[kyuss420]

so youre saying jailor should be nerfed because you dont like getting mafia roles, and feel that you should win a match by joining the lobby?

[Brilliand]

so youre saying jailor should be nerfed because you dont like getting mafia roles, and feel that you should win a match by joining the lobby?

Obviously not. Why would you even bother to accuse him of something so silly?

[EqsyLootz]

That second part is really important too. Does racist spam and bad sportsmanship hurt the game? Sure, ignoring that the game's definition of bad sportsmanship is not the same as mine. But nothing can hurt the game more than developer negligence. I don't have a clue of what's going on behind the scenes besides something that I think will be incredibly harmful to the game (especially if you start punishing dead leaves, that will kill this game very quickly because nobody wants to get killed by the Mafia Night 1 as a Jester then wait around for a match that means nothing to them to end, and if you try to make them do it anyway they're going to look for something else to do that doesn't feel like as much of a waste of time), and I haven't noticed any developers being particularly responsive in the Suggestions, Feedback, or Role Ideas forums, those being the exact spots I would expect at least one of them to be the most active. I admit, I don't know the full extent of the pre-pay-to-play bot crisis because I quit for a long time due to the Jailor frustrating me that much (and upon coming back, literally nothing has changed about the Jailor), but I do not have a good feeling about the place this game is in and where it seems to be going.

Again, all bad sportsmanship, HS/H and Racism cases are handled immediately to prevent the players from continuing their actions in other games. And No leaving while dead will never become punishable because it already is in some ways. Leaving while dead does not warrent you with any rewards you would obtain while winning such as ELO or MP. Therefore it's used as an encouragement to stay in game.

[dbpeanut]

That second part is really important too. Does racist spam and bad sportsmanship hurt the game? Sure, ignoring that the game's definition of bad sportsmanship is not the same as mine. But nothing can hurt the game more than developer negligence. I don't have a clue of what's going on behind the scenes besides something that I think will be incredibly harmful to the game (especially if you start punishing dead leaves, that will kill this game very quickly because nobody wants to get killed by the Mafia Night 1 as a Jester then wait around for a match that means nothing to them to end, and if you try to make them do it anyway they're going to look for something else to do that doesn't feel like as much of a waste of time), and I haven't noticed any developers being particularly responsive in the Suggestions, Feedback, or Role Ideas forums, those being the exact spots I would expect at least one of them to be the most active. I admit, I don't know the full extent of the pre-pay-to-play bot crisis because I quit for a long time due to the Jailor frustrating me that much (and upon coming back, literally nothing has changed about the Jailor), but I do not have a good feeling about the place this game is in and where it seems to be going.[/qupte]

Again, all bad sportsmanship, HS/H and Racism cases are handled immediately to prevent the players from continuing their actions in other games. And No leaving while dead will never become punishable because it already is in some ways. Leaving while dead does not warrent you with any rewards you would obtain while winning such as ELO or MP. Therefore it's used as an encouragement to stay in game.

Alright telling you now, racism and harassment cases aren't handled immediately. At best, they're handled ASAP, but I had a guy who consistently typed "Lynch the bl*cks" for 4-5 games in a row with the name "N*gro". And I'm talking at least 20m long games.

The only cases they seem to handle quickly are reports of faking BMG employees. Granted, it's also super rare to see anybody try that, but the few times I have, they were banned before the game was even over.

There's a reason I made a post about updating the banned words you know, since racism can run wild for hours due to either nobody being on or them being swamped with reports.

That being said I have nothing else relevant to add to your comment.

[EqsyLootz]

That second part is really important too. Does racist spam and bad sportsmanship hurt the game? Sure, ignoring that the game's definition of bad sportsmanship is not the same as mine. But nothing can hurt the game more than developer negligence. I don't have a clue of what's going on behind the scenes besides something that I think will be incredibly harmful to the game (especially if you start punishing dead leaves, that will kill this game very quickly because nobody wants to get killed by the Mafia Night 1 as a Jester then wait around for a match that means nothing to them to end, and if you try to make them do it anyway they're going to look for something else to do that doesn't feel like as much of a waste of time), and I haven't noticed any developers being particularly responsive in the Suggestions, Feedback, or Role Ideas forums, those being the exact spots I would expect at least one of them to be the most active. I admit, I don't know the full extent of the pre-pay-to-play bot crisis because I quit for a long time due to the Jailor frustrating me that much (and upon coming back, literally nothing has changed about the Jailor), but I do not have a good feeling about the place this game is in and where it seems to be going.[/qupte]

Again, all bad sportsmanship, HS/H and Racism cases are handled immediately to prevent the players from continuing their actions in other games. And No leaving while dead will never become punishable because it already is in some ways. Leaving while dead does not warrent you with any rewards you would obtain while winning such as ELO or MP. Therefore it's used as an encouragement to stay in game.

Alright telling you now, racism and harassment cases aren't handled immediately. At best, they're handled ASAP, but I had a guy who consistently typed "Lynch the bl*cks" for 4-5 games in a row with the name "N*gro". And I'm talking at least 20m long games.

The only cases they seem to handle quickly are reports of faking BMG employees. Granted, it's also super rare to see anybody try that, but the few times I have, they were banned before the game was even over.

There's a reason I made a post about updating the banned words you know, since racism can run wild for hours due to either nobody being on or them being swamped with reports.

That being said I have nothing else relevant to add to your comment.

BMG IMP is the smallest Q so it's handled almost immediately yes. HS/H is the 4th biggest queue so it may take a little while but huge occuring issues with Racism are best to be reported to the forums for fast acting results. Also reports don't get filed until 20 minutes after the game ends so there is a delay.