The game's policy on leaving rounds early is too aggressive.

[SilverCruz]

Guess I'm goin' back to quitting, then!

and back to being banned you'll go.

I see what you're going for, but you misunderstood me. I meant quitting as in not playing the game -at all-. Also, I'm not finding your attitude for people who aren't satisfied with the game to be particularly good. You're making quips when someone has legitimate complaints about how things are run, and that seems kind of unprofessional and obnoxious.

[cob709]

Disconnecting from the game while alive is against the rules.

[SilverCruz]

And i find that to be lacking in nuance that it desperately needs, I'm not saying that it's presently a different way, I'm saying that it shouldn't be that way in every circumstance.

[cob709]

And i find that to be lacking in nuance that it desperately needs, I'm not saying that it's presently a different way, I'm saying that it shouldn't be that way in every circumstance.

It should always be that way in every circumstance. Leaving the game defeats the whole point of joining a lobby.

[dbpeanut]

Guess I'm goin' back to quitting, then!

and back to being banned you'll go.

This was the most unprofessional and childlike response you could have had. This either implies you're going to ban them or that you think they're rage quitting every single game they play/another bannable offense.
Both are bad implications.
Try to avoid this kind of response in the future.

[LevinSnakesRise]

Maybe we should be more clear in what our intent is then, rather than being vague if we don’t want to be misunderstood. Silver certainly wouldn’t be the first or last to gloat that because of the way the rules are, they’ll go around breaking them. Just look at the botters. So you’ll excuse me if by default I assume (especially with your appeal that is very recent) you’re referring to that.

Also I’m not sure what you’re expecting from someone who doesn’t work on the game and doesn’t touch base with the Developers hardly ever. Would I like to say “this is being forwarded”? Sure. Would I be lying out of my ass? Sure would. The Developers are working on their recent update, which they're revealing painfully slowly piece by piece. I wouldn't expect them to look at anything except that thread and related feedback until it's done and over with.

As far as how I post goes, you're welcome to your opinion of what’s childish and what isn’t, or whatever have you, that’s why it’s called an opinion. I simply stated a fact. There was no childish intent there. These are all just words being placed onto the internet.

Cheers.

[dbpeanut]

Maybe we should be more clear in what our intent is then, rather than being vague if we don’t want to be misunderstood. Silver certainly wouldn’t be the first or last to gloat that because of the way the rules are, they’ll go around breaking them. Just look at the botters. So you’ll excuse me if by default I assume (especially with your appeal that is very recent) you’re referring to that.

Also I’m not sure what you’re expecting from someone who doesn’t work on the game and doesn’t touch base with the Developers hardly ever. Would I like to say “this is being forwarded”? Sure. Would I be lying out of my ass? Sure would. The Developers are working on their recent update, which they're revealing painfully slowly piece by piece. I wouldn't expect them to look at anything except that thread and related feedback until it's done and over with.

As far as how I post goes, you're welcome to your opinion of what’s childish and what isn’t, or whatever have you, that’s why it’s called an opinion. I simply stated a fact. There was no childish intent there. These are all just words being placed onto the internet.

Cheers.

While this response is better, you can't really pull a "Well that's just your opinion" on perceived childlike behavior. You're an administrator acting in at least semi-official capacity for a deceit game, which requires at least a fair bit of debate to deceive.
You can say you were stating facts, but you were not. You were stating your opinion that they would be banned. Or if they are facts, that's STILL bad for you.
You really gotta have at least some level of filter when you're acting in official capacity, even if you have literally 0 contact with the devs whatsoever, you're still an administrator on the official forums. It comes back to bite them and you.

[EqsyLootz]

And i find that to be lacking in nuance that it desperately needs, I'm not saying that it's presently a different way, I'm saying that it shouldn't be that way in every circumstance.

I don't comprehend how you keep complaining about leavers but then you're hypocritical because you recently got suspended for leaving too.

[Quartzified]

Even if you leave the game to help your team win, it should still be against the rules because disconnecting isn't meant to be a feature you can abuse for an in-game advantage. Also, if you leave, it is a guaranteed loss for you even if your team wins.

[EqsyLootz]

Even if you leave the game to help your team win, it should still be against the rules because disconnecting isn't meant to be a feature you can abuse for an in-game advantage. Also, if you leave, it is a guaranteed loss for you even if your team wins.

Leaving regardless of the situation is against the rules if you are still alive.

[SilverCruz]

It should always be that way in every circumstance. Leaving the game defeats the whole point of joining a lobby.

Not agreed.

Maybe we should be more clear in what our intent is then, rather than being vague if we don’t want to be misunderstood. Silver certainly wouldn’t be the first or last to gloat that because of the way the rules are, they’ll go around breaking them. Just look at the botters. So you’ll excuse me if by default I assume (especially with your appeal that is very recent) you’re referring to that.

Also I’m not sure what you’re expecting from someone who doesn’t work on the game and doesn’t touch base with the Developers hardly ever. Would I like to say “this is being forwarded”? Sure. Would I be lying out of my ass? Sure would. The Developers are working on their recent update, which they're revealing painfully slowly piece by piece. I wouldn't expect them to look at anything except that thread and related feedback until it's done and over with.

As far as how I post goes, you're welcome to your opinion of what’s childish and what isn’t, or whatever have you, that’s why it’s called an opinion. I simply stated a fact. There was no childish intent there. These are all just words being placed onto the internet.

Cheers.

I mean, I've held the position that the quit policy is too strict long before that, you can see that easily if you care to look. Also, just going to put it out there, I'm pretty sure I've heard of this "leaver buster" since before I ducked out the first time years ago, and it's still not done? Considering that I've also never seen a lick of a deployment date, I'm guessing we're just going with the Duke Nukem Forever approach, which is all the more reason to have extremely low hopes that this will actually solve anything and not just choke the playerbase to death.

Also, the best I can figure from this "recent update" is that there's either going to be A, a cosmetic overhaul that I would consider to be a waste of time, or B, more things to try to sell, which comes off as tacky in light of the outstanding gameplay problems. I consider this to be a bad game, and while I could've recommended it in the past when it was free-to-play, with a price tag I cannot in good conscience suggest it to anyone because of things like the Jailor going years with their infinite combo never getting patched out.

I don't comprehend how you keep complaining about leavers but then you're hypocritical because you recently got suspended for leaving too.

Where am I complaining exactly? I might be tripping over myself, but my position is that leavers gonna leave. If they're a Day 1 Godfather quit, then yeah, you can maybe do something to dissuade that, but you should also try to understand why they did it, maybe directly ask them. If they're just trying to cause a problem, of course that's bad, but if it's because they hate being the Godfather because they find the role boring and unfairly weak (which it is because of the deadlocks), that's probably worth thinking about especially if you keep hearing things like that. On the other hand, if the Blackmailer-turned-Mafioso quits Day 2 because of a brutal confluence of events where the Mafioso got roleblocked and shot by a Vigilante through the Witch and the Godfather and Janitor ran into a Veteran, then I firmly uphold that they should be allowed to just go and let everyone try to get into a round that isn't so lopsided because that's a stupid situation to be in and pretty much unrecoverable since there are so many ways that they can get pinned out. The Jailor or an Escort finds them? Game over. Sheriff finds them? Game over, even if they don't get instantly lynched because of Executioner paranoia, an optimal Jailor will deadlock them on the spot. Why read the rest of the story if you know how it's going to end and the road to that ending isn't interesting? Nevermind that quit suspensions should roll off after a point.

Even if you leave the game to help your team win, it should still be against the rules because disconnecting isn't meant to be a feature you can abuse for an in-game advantage. Also, if you leave, it is a guaranteed loss for you even if your team wins.

Leaving regardless of the situation is against the rules if you are still alive.

So you're so unreasonably hostile to people leaving games while alive that you're promoting active and intentional gamethrowing, nevermind that no, leaving doesn't count as a loss.

[EqsyLootz]

I don't comprehend how you keep complaining about leavers but then you're hypocritical because you recently got suspended for leaving too.

Where am I complaining exactly? I might be tripping over myself, but my position is that leavers gonna leave. If they're a Day 1 Godfather quit, then yeah, you can maybe do something to dissuade that, but you should also try to understand why they did it, maybe directly ask them. If they're just trying to cause a problem, of course that's bad, but if it's because they hate being the Godfather because they find the role boring and unfairly weak (which it is because of the deadlocks), that's probably worth thinking about especially if you keep hearing things like that. On the other hand, if the Blackmailer-turned-Mafioso quits Day 2 because of a brutal confluence of events where the Mafioso got roleblocked and shot by a Vigilante through the Witch and the Godfather and Janitor ran into a Veteran, then I firmly uphold that they should be allowed to just go and let everyone try to get into a round that isn't so lopsided because that's a stupid situation to be in and pretty much unrecoverable since there are so many ways that they can get pinned out. The Jailor or an Escort finds them? Game over. Sheriff finds them? Game over, even if they don't get instantly lynched because of Executioner paranoia, an optimal Jailor will deadlock them on the spot. Why read the rest of the story if you know how it's going to end and the road to that ending isn't interesting? Nevermind that quit suspensions should roll off after a point.

Even if you leave the game to help your team win, it should still be against the rules because disconnecting isn't meant to be a feature you can abuse for an in-game advantage. Also, if you leave, it is a guaranteed loss for you even if your team wins.

Leaving regardless of the situation is against the rules if you are still alive.

So you're so unreasonably hostile to people leaving games while alive that you're promoting active and intentional gamethrowing, nevermind that no, leaving doesn't count as a loss.

It is unreasonably selfish to take into consideration that regardless of the full outcome of the game even if it results in your losss there are NE like Witch or Exe (In ranked gamemodes) or other roles that require an evil faction in order for them to win. If you dare have the audacity to think leaving a game in the middle of it just proves you don't even deserve to play at all. You are complaining about dead locks but that's part of the game. Leaving isn't however, it presents an unfair advantage to many factions.

And how in thee world am i promoting active and intentional gamethrowing?

[SilverCruz]

By saying the Godfather, after the Mafioso has died, should just sit in jail every night and do nothing while the Town figures out who the other two Mafia are with no risk whatsoever, lynches them off, then executes after the fact.

"You are complaining about dead locks but that's part of the game." That's one word, deadlock, and yes. It is part of the game. It's the hands down worst part of the game that gives the town an insanely unfair advantage over the Mafia. There is a reason that in the day of patches, if a fighting game character is found to have a 100 to 0 infinite combo, they don't get to keep that combo. Why should the Jailor in this game get to keep theirs? Nevermind the fact that the old Disguiser and old Retributionist were also "part of the game" before. You know what happened to them? They got removed because they sucked and were completely broken, respectively.

[EqsyLootz]

By saying the Godfather, after the Mafioso has died, should just sit in jail every night and do nothing while the Town figures out who the other two Mafia are with no risk whatsoever, lynches them off, then executes after the fact.

"You are complaining about dead locks but that's part of the game." That's one word, deadlock, and yes. It is part of the game. It's the hands down worst part of the game that gives the town an insanely unfair advantage over the Mafia. There is a reason that in the day of patches, if a fighting game character is found to have a 100 to 0 infinite combo, they don't get to keep that combo. Why should the Jailor in this game get to keep theirs?

You didn't answer my question.

But none the less just get good and avoid dead locks.

[SilverCruz]

Yes, I did answer your question.

Plus, "get good", what a joke. Weren't we in a simulation of a realistic gameplay scenario in a different thread that you never finished? Let's try it again. Failure to respond will be interpreted as quitting while alive for the purpose of the simulation.

Night 1 - You are the Godfather, and William Phips is the Mafioso, and your Random Mafia are a Framer and Disguiser. You decide to attack Cotton Mathers.

Day 2 - Cotton Mathers was killed by a member of the Mafia. His role was Medium. William Phips was shot by a Vigilante. His role was Mafioso. John Hathorne claims Vigilante and asks to be lynched so he can't get Witched again. The town lynches John Hathorne because nobody is counter-claiming Vigilante, so he's unlikely to be a Jester that wanted Cotton Mathers. His role was Vigilante.

Night 2 - The Jailor arbitrarily jails you because they had no reasonable leads and openly states that nothing you say will cause them to execute you tonight because if you're the Godfather then they have a deadlock. What do you do?

[EqsyLootz]

Yes, I did answer your question.

Plus, "get good", what a joke. Weren't we in a simulation of a realistic gameplay scenario in a different thread that you never finished? Let's try it again. Failure to respond will be interpreted as quitting while alive for the purpose of the simulation.

Night 1 - You are the Godfather, and William Phips is the Mafioso, and your Random Mafia are a Framer and Disguiser. You decide to attack Cotton Mathers.

Day 2 - Cotton Mathers was killed by a member of the Mafia. His role was Medium. William Phips was shot by a Vigilante. His role was Mafioso. John Hathorne claims Vigilante and asks to be lynched so he can't get Witched again. The town lynches John Hathorne because nobody is counter-claiming Vigilante, so he's unlikely to be a Jester that wanted Cotton Mathers. His role was Vigilante.

Night 2 - The Jailor arbitrarily jails you because they had no reasonable leads and openly states that nothing you say will cause them to execute you tonight because if you're the Godfather then they have a deadlock. What do you do?

Figure it out. Develop strategies or accept the loss.

[SilverCruz]

Okay, you figure "it" out. But, being that you didn't specify what "it" is, it turns out to have nothing to do with the situation at hand.

Day 3 - Nobody died. The Framer framed somebody and the Disguiser disguised them as somebody else.

Night 3 - You're in jail again because nobody died.

What's your next move?

[EqsyLootz]

Okay, you figure "it" out. But, being that you didn't specify what "it" is, it turns out to have nothing to do with the situation at hand.

Day 3 - Nobody died. The Framer framed somebody and the Disguiser disguised them as somebody else.

Night 3 - You're in jail again because nobody died.

What's your next move?

Hope to get yourself lynched whilst following all the guidelines

[SilverCruz]

Day 4 - You enact your master plan to get lynched. Deodat Lawson says "The Mafia hasn't been killing, so I bet they're the Godfather trying to get out of a deadlock since they started acting weird all of a sudden, and if not then we can check them and see if they're a Jester while the Jailor keeps doing what they're doing, and go from there.", and the town agrees because they are also playing optimally. Samuel Sewall mentions they got Witched, then Samuel Parris claims Lookout and says that Dorothy Good was their only visitor last night. Dorothy Good fails to produce a Will and is lynched. Her role was Witch.

Night 4 - Welcome back to jail.

[cob709]

It should always be that way in every circumstance. Leaving the game defeats the whole point of joining a lobby.

Not agreed.

y

[SilverCruz]

Because there are circumstances where a round has been messed up to the point that it's better to just scrub it and let everyone find a new one.

[dbpeanut]

There's times, even in the easiest of modes, where rounds are irrecoverable. Being found as framer when both mafia are dead in classic is an example. Some people view it as okay to leave in situations that wouldn't impact the outcome of the game, but do impact how much time they spend in it.
Personally, you're never going to stop leaving outright, and after like D2, you've gotten most of the rage quits out of the way. There could always be nuance added to tell if the leave was ill intended or otherwise less severe than someone who leaves D1 because they don't like a role or something similar.

[SilverCruz]

And regarding people who leave Day 1 because they don't like the role they got, there's more to that problem than just suspending them on the spot and not asking questions. If this happens a lot for a particular role, then that role might need to be checked out. Everyone knows that Framer and Disguiser are simply less interesting than Consigliere and Ambusher, and Godfather feels rather weak for being the supposed leader of the Mafia.

[cob709]

Because there are circumstances where a round has been messed up to the point that it's better to just scrub it and let everyone find a new one.

there will never be such a circumstance

[SilverCruz]

I don't agree.