Requirements for Game to Automatically End (Arsonist)

[Serahni]

I don't know if this scenario is only coming up because of the nature of Chaos modes, but is the game working as intended when it makes Arsonist go through the process of dousing a final target and igniting them when that role has no capacity to stop the Arsonist? It keeps happening where Arsonist and another role are the last standing and our game pushes through the douse/ignite scenario instead of just awarding the Arsonist the win? Is that just because the game isn't programmed to recognise the predicted outcome?

[Flavorable]

The game always fully plays out, unless it would end in a stalemate, which is where the stalemate detector would jump in. Every other scenario where someone just has to kill one last person to win, will always play out until the end.

[ScarfVendetta]

The game always fully plays out, unless it would end in a stalemate, which is where the stalemate detector would jump in. Every other scenario where someone just has to kill one last person to win, will always play out until the end.

I recall there being many situations where the stalemate detector kicks in, despite there being no danger of a stalemate.

Examples (not all are listed here):
- Arsonist vs Serial Killer (automatic Arsonist victory)
- Werewolf vs Serial Killer (automatic Werewolf victory)
- Arsonist vs Vampire (automatic Arsonist victory)
- Godfather vs Vampire (automatic Mafia victory)
- Werewolf vs Godfather (automatic Werewolf victory)
- Werewolf vs Mafioso (automatic Werewolf victory)
- Werewolf vs Escort (automatic Werewolf victory)
- Werewolf vs Jailor without executions (automatic Werewolf victory)
- Serial Killer vs Jailor without executions (automatic Serial Killer victory)

These outcomes are only present for pairs of roles which would be able to cause stalemates against other roles, even if not against each other. It does come across as inconsistent, though.

[Joacgroso]

Personally I think winning as NK would be way less sayisfying if you couldn't kill the last people off. Maybe they could make it so arso insta-ignites like a hex master if he douses the last player, saving everyone's time.

[OreCreeper]

Personally I think winning as NK would be way less sayisfying if you couldn't kill the last people off. Maybe they could make it so arso insta-ignites like a hex master if he douses the last player, saving everyone's time.

No because that actually acts as a gameplay buff. For example, if the arsonist douses the last player while the town still had majority, town would normally have an extra day to find the arso. It also nerfs vet in 1v1s against arso, because it saves arso a night to ignite (if the arso doesn't have the vet doused by the time the draw timer is announced, it means the arso has lost or the game draws, but with this change the arso still has a chance to win).

[Koyume]

No because that actually acts as a gameplay buff. For example, if the arsonist douses the last player while the town still had majority, town would normally have an extra day to find the arso. It also nerfs vet in 1v1s against arso, because it saves arso a night to ignite (if the arso doesn't have the vet doused by the time the draw timer is announced, it means the arso has lost or the game draws, but with this change the arso still has a chance to win).

Which is why OP suggested that the mechanic only comes into play "when that role has no capacity to stop the Arsonist".

[Joacgroso]

Personally I think winning as NK would be way less sayisfying if you couldn't kill the last people off. Maybe they could make it so arso insta-ignites like a hex master if he douses the last player, saving everyone's time.

No because that actually acts as a gameplay buff. For example, if the arsonist douses the last player while the town still had majority, town would normally have an extra day to find the arso. It also nerfs vet in 1v1s against arso, because it saves arso a night to ignite (if the arso doesn't have the vet doused by the time the draw timer is announced, it means the arso has lost or the game draws, but with this change the arso still has a chance to win).

I get what you're saying, although I don't think those examples are the best to justify it.
In the first situation, it's true that dousing the last player would give town more time, but an arsonist has no reason to do that. Right now, they can ignite and end in a 1 vs 1 against town, which is a sure win unless they end up against the mayor, the jailor or the veteran (which should have already been doused anyway). The result would be the same, but slower. And in the case of the veteran, it would still be a fair win since the vet didn't alert when he was doused.
The second case just gives arsos one more day to win, which isn't that important in my opinion. Buffing arso and nerfing town doesn't sound bad to me, especially when such a minor buff would save a lot of time for everyone.
The main problem is that it would make arsonists unable to lose in a 1 vs 1 with other NKs. Although, arsonists used to be the weakest NK, now that they have been buffed I can't say that for sure, so that's a possible reason not to implement what I said.

[OreCreeper]

Personally I think winning as NK would be way less sayisfying if you couldn't kill the last people off. Maybe they could make it so arso insta-ignites like a hex master if he douses the last player, saving everyone's time.

No because that actually acts as a gameplay buff. For example, if the arsonist douses the last player while the town still had majority, town would normally have an extra day to find the arso. It also nerfs vet in 1v1s against arso, because it saves arso a night to ignite (if the arso doesn't have the vet doused by the time the draw timer is announced, it means the arso has lost or the game draws, but with this change the arso still has a chance to win).

I get what you're saying, although I don't think those examples are the best to justify it.
In the first situation, it's true that dousing the last player would give town more time, but an arsonist has no reason to do that. Right now, they can ignite and end in a 1 vs 1 against town, which is a sure win unless they end up against the mayor, the jailor or the veteran (which should have already been doused anyway). The result would be the same, but slower. And in the case of the veteran, it would still be a fair win since the vet didn't alert when he was doused.
The second case just gives arsos one more day to win, which isn't that important in my opinion. Buffing arso and nerfing town doesn't sound bad to me, especially when such a minor buff would save a lot of time for everyone.
The main problem is that it would make arsonists unable to lose in a 1 vs 1 with other NKs. Although, arsonists used to be the weakest NK, now that they have been buffed I can't say that for sure, so that's a possible reason not to implement what I said.

Honestly you must be insane if you still want NK buffs against town after the latest patch. For the first situation, I mean where the arso has like all but one person doused. You get what I mean. Saving time is not really that important, especially since its like literally one minute, but that one minute can change the outcome of many games.

[Joacgroso]

That's what I said. If the arso has all but one person doused, he can ignite and end in a 1 vs 1. The he has to wait 2 more days to end the game. Unless he faces very specifiq roles, his chances of winning are almost a certainity. Which is the same as dousing a player and insta igniting, except that it takes a lot less time.
It's true that this would make jailors, mayors and veterans unable to clutch, but I highly doubt an arsonist would make it that far without igniting the TL roles. And if he doused the vet and he didn't alert, that's on the vet. My main concern are other NKs.

edit: On the other hand, you make a good point. An arsonist who didn't douse the jailor or the mayor until endgame doesn't deserve to win.

[Serahni]

Just for the record, I'm not asking for any scenario changes that would let Arsonist auto-win a game they have a chance of losing, (and yes I know everyone can disconnect at the last minute but that's bad luck, not a function of the gameplay lol). I'm specifically talking about the irritation of making the game go through the cycle of douse-ignite when the only other person left is a Medium. lol. For example.

[kyuss420]

Personally I think winning as NK would be way less sayisfying if you couldn't kill the last people off. Maybe they could make it so arso insta-ignites like a hex master if he douses the last player, saving everyone's time.

No because that actually acts as a gameplay buff. For example, if the arsonist douses the last player while the town still had majority, town would normally have an extra day to find the arso. It also nerfs vet in 1v1s against arso, because it saves arso a night to ignite (if the arso doesn't have the vet doused by the time the draw timer is announced, it means the arso has lost or the game draws, but with this change the arso still has a chance to win).

Can you explain how town has majority when the arsonist douses the LAST player? I think the LAST player has found the arso in the 1v1 situation (altho with most towns ive been in over the past 3 weeks, it wouldnt surprise me if they still couldnt figure they werent arso themselves)

[OreCreeper]

Personally I think winning as NK would be way less sayisfying if you couldn't kill the last people off. Maybe they could make it so arso insta-ignites like a hex master if he douses the last player, saving everyone's time.

No because that actually acts as a gameplay buff. For example, if the arsonist douses the last player while the town still had majority, town would normally have an extra day to find the arso. It also nerfs vet in 1v1s against arso, because it saves arso a night to ignite (if the arso doesn't have the vet doused by the time the draw timer is announced, it means the arso has lost or the game draws, but with this change the arso still has a chance to win).

Can you explain how town has majority when the arsonist douses the LAST player? I think the LAST player has found the arso in the 1v1 situation (altho with most towns ive been in over the past 3 weeks, it wouldnt surprise me if they still couldnt figure they werent arso themselves)

Idk maybe in gamemodes like All Any where there can be multiple NKs, arsonists may choose to douse everyone before igniting in case that last player that they don't douse ends up being a werewolf or something.