Let's Talk About Retributionist

Put any feedback about the game here.

Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby Achilles » Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:34 pm

I have talked with the community about several different ways to change the Retributionist to be less powerful but also more fun to play. The conclusion was that the only thing that really made sense was a full rework.

Retributionist - The precursor to the Necromancer

The Retributionist will become the good mirror to the evil Necromancer. Both gaining their power from the ability to temporarily revive dead players and use their night abilities one last time.

Abilities:
You may reanimate a dead Town player and use their ability on another player.
You may only reanimate a Town player once before their corpse rots
You will be able to see the feedback of the roles you reanimate (Sheriff, Investigator, Lookout, etc)

Special notes:
The Retributionist can only reanimate Town roles.
Roles without targetable night abilities will not do anything (just like Necromancer)

Design Discussion
The Retributionist power will be determined by what Town roles are in the graveyard. They will essentially be a "jack of all trades", being able to use TI roles 1 extra time and provide information to the Town, being able to use a dead Vigilante to shoot evil roles, being able to use a BodyGuard, Doctor or Crusader to protect a priority Town member. There will however be several Town roles that are of no use to the Retributionist (Jailor, Medium, Psychic, Veteran to name a few).

Important considerations:
I'm still in the process of brainstorming how Ret will interact with cleaned roles or a Disguiser. I am currently thinking the Ret could be used to determine if a role in the graveyard was actually a Disguiser or attempting to use a cleaned role to figure out what that role was.
User avatar
Achilles
Developer
Developer
 
Posts: 1038
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:02 pm

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby Robbytherobot » Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:37 pm

I agree with this rework, gives evils more claim space, makes retri less confirmed, dead info can only come from medium (making it more powerful while evils are more able to use it to their liking), I don't think retri should instantly know that the dead is disg but have their ability do nothing, I agree with the cleaned roles. Coven needs more parallels to town so reworking retri helps them as well.
Robbytherobot
Medium
Medium
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:16 pm

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby MysticMismagius » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:17 pm

Robbytherobot wrote:I agree with this rework, gives evils more claim space, makes retri less confirmed, dead info can only come from medium (making it more powerful while evils are more able to use it to their liking), I don't think retri should instantly know that the dead is disg but have their ability do nothing, While it will oftentimes be pretty obvious (lack of TI results, Vigi kill, Escort rb, etc.) the extra day is probably worth it I agree with the cleaned roles. Coven needs more parallels to town so reworking retri helps them as well.

Achilles wrote:I have talked with the community about several different ways to change the Retributionist to be less powerful but also more fun to play. The conclusion was that the only thing that really made sense was a full rework.

Retributionist - The precursor to the Necromancer

The Retributionist will become the good mirror to the evil Necromancer. Both gaining their power from the ability to temporarily revive dead players and use their night abilities one last time.

Abilities:
You may reanimate a dead Town player and use their ability on another player.
You may only reanimate a Town player once before their corpse rots Question: Does this conflict with Necromancer at all? If Necro and neo-Ret try to use the same corpse, will one of them be prevented from doing so?
You will be able to see the feedback of the roles you reanimate (Sheriff, Investigator, Lookout, etc) PLEASE give this to the real Necromancer as well. Not only does this make it easier for Necro to fake-claim neo-Ret, it also solves a major problem with the role, in that TI/Consig corpses are technically "usable" but are useless in practice

Special notes:
The Retributionist can only reanimate Town roles.
Roles without targetable night abilities will not do anything (just like Necromancer)

Design Discussion
The Retributionist power will be determined by what Town roles are in the graveyard. They will essentially be a "jack of all trades", being able to use TI roles 1 extra time and provide information to the Town, being able to use a dead Vigilante to shoot evil roles, being able to use a BodyGuard, Doctor or Crusader to protect a priority Town member. There will however be several Town roles that are of no use to the Retributionist (Jailor, Medium, Psychic, Veteran to name a few).

Important considerations:
I'm still in the process of brainstorming how Ret will interact with cleaned roles or a Disguiser. I am currently thinking the Ret could be used to determine if a role in the graveyard was actually a Disguiser or attempting to use a cleaned role to figure out what that role was. I don't like this idea. I guess it makes sense as a way to figure out who the cleaned might be in case they leave, but I don't want Janitor's ability to have too many counters, as it's one of the few good Mafia roles right now. Allowing neo-Ret to try to use the corpse of a cleaned role means that it remains a counter to Janitor even after the nerf.
Image
User avatar
MysticMismagius
Consigliere
Consigliere
 
Posts: 1271
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:46 pm
Location: The 12th Astral Plane of Zamboni

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby SuperChillGuy » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:22 am

I don't like it. Being able to res a BG/Doctor to stop a kill for a night just adds to the often luck based game style that already plagues ranked.

Most ranked games revolve around trying to kill the Jailor as fast as you can which means killing the TP and then going for the Jailor hoping town didn't role a second TP or god forbid a transporter. Now we've adding a third problem to the mix.

If you're going this route at least make it so the TP can only be used on the ret himself and no one else.
SuperChillGuy
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:56 am

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby HAWAIIANpikachu » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:38 am

This works for me. Split on the disguiser thing but a lot of roles can give notifications of what they do so I don't think Retri should be able to use cleaned/stoned corpses
Town of salem User name: HAWAIIANpikachu
Town of salem ingame name: Perfect town/Below Is Afk
User avatar
HAWAIIANpikachu
Survivor
Survivor
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:49 am
Location: USA

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby DesertStorm11 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:42 am

This is great! Definitely gonna have to agree that Necromancer should also receive TI results as well.
User avatar
DesertStorm11
Survivor
Survivor
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 1:51 pm

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby polypies73 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:56 am

what they said
E
User avatar
polypies73
Veteran
Veteran
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:43 am

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby Brilliand » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:59 am

I think the Disguiser should function as the role that it shows as in the graveyard, so if it died disguised as Escort then the ret can use it as an Escort.

I am, overall, worried about the Retributionist running out of bodies to use. If the first three nights are "Sheriff dies", "Investigator dies", and "Maf hits an immune", then the retri spends the first three nights functioning as half of a TI. To compensate for that... perhaps non-killing roles should have two uses instead of one? (it's a minor thing, though.)

I also think that certain non-visiting roles could be usable by the Retributionist. The Psychic and Veteran both have abilities that apply at the end of the night, so there's in principle no reason the Retri couldn't use them to get one night of Psychic results, and go on a Veteran-like alert once.
User avatar
Brilliand
Godfather
Godfather
 
Posts: 1503
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:34 pm

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby JakeTheSnake5963 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:04 am

Firstly, I am wondering if the dead corpse that will be used by neo-retri will be selected during the day then used at night, or will they be selected and used at night? If a corpse were to be selected during the night, roles such as transporter that interact with two people would do nothing if chosen (similar to necromancer). I feel that neo-retri should have to select the corpse during the daytime so at night the transporter's requirement to select 2 people won't be an issue. This way up to 3 targets can be selected every day: the dead corpse during the day, then up to two live townies during the night (depending on the role of course). If transporter isn't planned to be usable, then selecting the corpse at night should honestly be sufficient. A minor issue that I already see with this suggestion is that it makes the role prone to forgetfulness. I think there have all been times where someone has forgotten to jail during the day (even i ranked games) and I could understand how you guys may desire to avoid this small complexity.

Brilliand wrote: I am, overall, worried about the Retributionist running out of bodies to use. If the first three nights are "Sheriff dies", "Investigator dies", and "Maf hits an immune", then the retri spends the first three nights functioning as half of a TI. To compensate for that... perhaps non-killing roles should have two uses instead of one? (it's a minor thing, though.)


In regards to this I feel like neo-retri should be limited by the amount of bodies that are available to reanimate at night so they are used as strategically as possible. I do believe that it is a fair suggestion to allow TI corpses to have two uses and I don't just want to shoot it down yet, but I still am leaning on the side of keeping all bodies universally at one use. This is because I feel that neo-retri if idle early game will shine in the late game situations when mafia may least expect it (all TP's are dead so mafia targets jailor, but a quiet retri surprises everyone when the mafioso is killed by a bodyguard). I don't feel it would be fully balanced to allow it to act as a fully functioning TI in the early game, then as a TP/TK in the late game as well.

Brilliand wrote: I also think that certain non-visiting roles could be usable by the Retributionist. The Psychic and Veteran both have abilities that apply at the end of the night, so there's in principle no reason the Retri couldn't use them to get one night of Psychic results, and go on a Veteran-like alert once.


I personally like the idea of veteran being usable as it would really suck if the one TK in the game is a vet that dies early. This would at least allow neo-retri to be less of a sitting duck for mafia as it can guarantee defense for itself for one night without using a TP corpse, and it creates doubt (not a guaranteed kill). This is a fair trade-off for not being able to shoot an evil if a vigi simply isn't in the game.

In terms of the psychic, I am torn due to the argument that if a psychic can be reanimated, why can't a medium? A revived medium could in theory allow for neo-retri to talk with the dead for one night, but this will just result in a similar combo that currently exists right now (neo-retri reanimates medium to talk with the dead, medium seances confirmed townie and retri is then confirmed). I personally don't mind having psychic able to be reanimated on its own, but I feel that its similar ties to medium based on the fact that they are both non-visiting roles and similar in character may make it difficult to implement one but not the other.

MysticMismagius wrote: Question: Does this conflict with Necromancer at all? If Necro and neo-Ret try to use the same corpse, will one of them be prevented from doing so?


In my opinion I feel that it should directly affect the necromancer. Personally I think that if a corpse is used by one, it shouldn't be able to be used again by either. If both the retri and necro were to attempt to use the same corpse on the same night, neither of them should be granted the corpses ability and the corpse could remain unused. Instead, a notification should come up letting each role know of the other's existence and that the corpse was unusable because of it. This will make it a priority for both town and coven to get rid of the corresponding role as they would lock each other into a stalemate. If the necro/neo-retri were to be interferred with at night the other could continue as per usual. I don't believe this would be a bad thing because it would disadvantage both town and coven equally until either faction finds and gets rid of the role in question.
I tried so hard
and got so far
but in the end
it doesn't even matter.
User avatar
JakeTheSnake5963
Executioner
Executioner
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:18 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby Transcender » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:06 am

how to fix retri-




town power

like seriously, retri isnt the only broken town role. Adding town power, and making it that in classic modes such as ranked only one town power can role. town power would replace the jailor slot and would most likely include mayor, jailor, and retri.
User avatar
Transcender
Recruiter
Recruiter
 
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:44 pm
Location: FULLY DESCENDED

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby SkorumpowanyGlut » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:13 am

I like the rework and regarding Retri reanimating cleaned targets - Yes, that should be possible. Currently, Retri counters Disguiser anyway and reanimating cleaned roles comes with risks: for example using Vigilante or Escort on town members or wasting a night because your target had a passive ability.
SkorumpowanyGlut
Transporter
Transporter
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:39 am

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby Robbytherobot » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:06 am

I didn't even think of that, now retri needs to be cautious when using their power on stoned and cleaned townies, and fake claiming retris can give town fake info as for their roles.
Last edited by Robbytherobot on Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Robbytherobot
Medium
Medium
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:16 pm

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby Transcender » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:08 am

retri should also be able to bring back cleaned/stoned people and disguisers yes
User avatar
Transcender
Recruiter
Recruiter
 
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:44 pm
Location: FULLY DESCENDED

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby wozearly » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:25 am

Achilles wrote:Abilities:
You may reanimate a dead Town player and use their ability on another player.
You may only reanimate a Town player once before their corpse rots
You will be able to see the feedback of the roles you reanimate (Sheriff, Investigator, Lookout, etc)

Special notes:
The Retributionist can only reanimate Town roles.
Roles without targetable night abilities will not do anything (just like Necromancer)


Looks good to me.

Achilles wrote:Important considerations:
I'm still in the process of brainstorming how Ret will interact with cleaned roles or a Disguiser. I am currently thinking the Ret could be used to determine if a role in the graveyard was actually a Disguiser or attempting to use a cleaned role to figure out what that role was.


While I sort-of like the idea that Retri can try to figure out cleaned roles, I think in practice this is a bad idea as it gives too much utility against the Janitor. It's quite risky to provide fake info on the role if a number of roles can effectively be checked with 100% accuracy via a Retri (notably including all TIs except Psychic). The only real downside for the Ret is the pretty low chance of picking a cleaned/stoned Vigi (or Crusader in Coven) and killing a Townie while trying to understand what the role was. I'd say make it unable to use cleaned/stoned roles at first, as with the Necro, and tweak later if Retri seems underpowered.

With regard to Disguisers disguised as Town, it's important this isn't blindly obvious to the Retri (ie, they're not selectable despite being Town). I think the best way of handling this is for them to appear selectable, but trying to use them won't cause anything to happen (ie, as if they had no targetable night ability). This would make TI Disguisers easier to identify as fake, but only if Town is willing to ignore the info in their will for a whole day to let the Retri check. It also may lead to encouraging misplays if Town think they have an Escort/TP/Vigi when actually they don't. It also opens a small window of opportunity for Retris to look fake (why didn't you use the dead doctor on the Jailor last night?), or for ballsy scum to claim Retri and say a dead TI is a Disguiser.
wozearly
Sheriff
Sheriff
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:48 am

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby Robbytherobot » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:36 am

I have a question is retri still unique here, or can any townie be one, I personally don't like unique roles (except town power).
Robbytherobot
Medium
Medium
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:16 pm

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby wozearly » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:36 am

Brilliand wrote:I think the Disguiser should function as the role that it shows as in the graveyard, so if it died disguised as Escort then the ret can use it as an Escort.


That would pretty much force Disguisers to avoid disguising as TPs, Escort and Vigilante unless they're 100% certain there's no retri, as those roles will all end up being used against the remaining Mafia. Disguisers have it bad enough without landing that on them as well.

Brilliand wrote:I am, overall, worried about the Retributionist running out of bodies to use. If the first three nights are "Sheriff dies", "Investigator dies", and "Maf hits an immune", then the retri spends the first three nights functioning as half of a TI. To compensate for that... perhaps non-killing roles should have two uses instead of one? (it's a minor thing, though.)


There are typically around 8 other Townies in most modes; that should be more than enough corpse-meat for the Retri. Yes, there'll be games where Town doesn't die initially, or where roles are cleaned, but that helps overall as it places pressure on the Retri to claim without proof. Allowing a Retri to have two cracks at the whip with TIs would mean they could prove themselves beyond almost all doubt with access to a dead Investigator or Lookout.

Brilliand wrote:I also think that certain non-visiting roles could be usable by the Retributionist. The Psychic and Veteran both have abilities that apply at the end of the night, so there's in principle no reason the Retri couldn't use them to get one night of Psychic results, and go on a Veteran-like alert once.


True, but the rules are easier to communicate if non-visiting roles are all non-functional. Also, I'm not feeling any particularly great desire to give the Retri any more access to killing abilities than it already has!
Last edited by wozearly on Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
wozearly
Sheriff
Sheriff
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:48 am

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby Transcender » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:48 am

Robbytherobot wrote:I have a question is retri still unique here, or can any townie be one, I personally don't like unique roles (except town power).

town shouldnt be able to have multiple people who can use other people's abilities.
also necromancer lore will need changed.




and TPow is still better than all of these.
User avatar
Transcender
Recruiter
Recruiter
 
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:44 pm
Location: FULLY DESCENDED

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby orangeandblack5 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:06 am

While we're addressing Retri

Can we also touch on Medium?

They share a lot of issues and we can significantly streamline the post-game process if we work on both

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=109316

I definitely think Retri needs it more but I think there's a lot of benefits to be had in removing dead interaction (and I've seen another game solve these exact issues via removing dead interaction before, so that decision has a good track record too!)
Image
Spoiler:
SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
User avatar
orangeandblack5
Halloween 2017 Winner
Halloween 2017 Winner
 
Posts: 5767
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:24 pm
Location: University of Michigan

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby Transcender » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:44 am

removing dead interaction is also good
but for some reason tos players hate that idea
no clue why
User avatar
Transcender
Recruiter
Recruiter
 
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:44 pm
Location: FULLY DESCENDED

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby ak521 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:16 am

I disagree with this - many townies will leave once they see there is no medium. The retributionist encourages people NOT to leave.

The retri has significant flaws. I believe that giving it a nerf instead of overhauling it is better.

For example, when the retributionist dies, their resurrected target will as well.
Or the resurrected target will only live two nights. (one is too less + would require a second use of the ability, three is an eternity)

I believe these have already been proposed but this role feels too complicated especially where you're going with Mafia Deception. What I stated above should have much better potential imo.
The first nerf I suggested also makes the Retributionist more interesting to play as they will have to figure out a way to hide.

EDIT: I noticed some people talking about lore, I STRONGLY believe in the first suggestion- when the retributionist dies, their resurrected target will as well.
ak521
Witch
Witch
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:31 am

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby lemonader666 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:24 am

Kinda amazed at how y'all don't even bother with RI or TG considering their purpose

you can email me at lemonader666@gmail.com if need be
User avatar
lemonader666
[Forum Mafia XVI] Winner
[Forum Mafia XVI] Winner
 
Posts: 1703
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby wozearly » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:32 am

JakeTheSnake5963 wrote:Firstly, I am wondering if the dead corpse that will be used by neo-retri will be selected during the day then used at night, or will they be selected and used at night? If a corpse were to be selected during the night, roles such as transporter that interact with two people would do nothing if chosen (similar to necromancer). I feel that neo-retri should have to select the corpse during the daytime so at night the transporter's requirement to select 2 people won't be an issue.


As the Retri's ability is based on that of the Necromancer, I think the starting assumption is that Transporter would not be usable (ie, you can select it and try to do something, but nothing will happen - same as Jailor). Given the amount of UI reworking and added complexity of having to make day choices on night resurrections to get Transporter working, I suspect it's not worth the aggravation to try to change that.

JakeTheSnake5963 wrote:
MysticMismagius wrote: Question: Does this conflict with Necromancer at all? If Necro and neo-Ret try to use the same corpse, will one of them be prevented from doing so?


In my opinion I feel that it should directly affect the necromancer. Personally I think that if a corpse is used by one, it shouldn't be able to be used again by either. If both the retri and necro were to attempt to use the same corpse on the same night, neither of them should be granted the corpses ability and the corpse could remain unused. Instead, a notification should come up letting each role know of the other's existence and that the corpse was unusable because of it. This will make it a priority for both town and coven to get rid of the corresponding role as they would lock each other into a stalemate. If the necro/neo-retri were to be interferred with at night the other could continue as per usual. I don't believe this would be a bad thing because it would disadvantage both town and coven equally until either faction finds and gets rid of the role in question.


I don't think either side (but particularly not Retri) should get a 100% confirmed message that a Retri or Necromancer is in the game.

I think it makes sense that the corpses are finite, giving the Necro the ability to interfere with the plans of the Retri. If both choose the same corpse, I'd be inclined to give the Necro priority and have the Retri receive either no feedback (if appropriate) or the results from the person the Necro directed the corpse to (if appropriate). That gives the Necro a tactical ability to try to stitch up the Retri in exchange for being unable to claim Retri themselves in games with one, as presumably the role will continue to be unique.
Last edited by wozearly on Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
wozearly
Sheriff
Sheriff
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:48 am

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby orangeandblack5 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:35 am

ak521 wrote:I disagree with this - many townies will leave once they see there is no medium. The retributionist encourages people NOT to leave.

Question

Why exactly is people leaving a bad thing

Like if you abstract yourself from the fact that Medium and Retributionist currently exist and honestly look at the idea, you'll see that the premise "dead players leaving is bad" has no innate merit

The only reason dead players leaving is bad is because there are roles that rely on dead players not leaving to be useful

But, were those not to exist, players would now have the agency to determine if they care to stick around to the end, or if they want to just leave and start another game, without any risk of negatively impacting their faction. This is much better for player comfort, and also benefits the scum's ability to actually remove threats, which is currently severely lacking.

It's a win-win, and should not be discounted just because players leaving is [i]currently1/i] harmful when these kinds of changes will mean that is no longer the case.
Image
Spoiler:
SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
User avatar
orangeandblack5
Halloween 2017 Winner
Halloween 2017 Winner
 
Posts: 5767
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:24 pm
Location: University of Michigan

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby Brilliand » Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:24 am

JakeTheSnake5963 wrote:I personally like the idea of veteran being usable as it would really suck if the one TK in the game is a vet that dies early. This would at least allow neo-retri to be less of a sitting duck for mafia as it can guarantee defense for itself for one night without using a TP corpse, and it creates doubt (not a guaranteed kill). This is a fair trade-off for not being able to shoot an evil if a vigi simply isn't in the game.


My thoughts exactly.

JakeTheSnake5963 wrote:In terms of the psychic, I am torn due to the argument that if a psychic can be reanimated, why can't a medium? A revived medium could in theory allow for neo-retri to talk with the dead for one night, but this will just result in a similar combo that currently exists right now (neo-retri reanimates medium to talk with the dead, medium seances confirmed townie and retri is then confirmed). I personally don't mind having psychic able to be reanimated on its own, but I feel that its similar ties to medium based on the fact that they are both non-visiting roles and similar in character may make it difficult to implement one but not the other.


I was imagining that the retri chooses his target at the end of the night, which would rule out the Medium because it's too late at that point to chat with the dead. If your suggestion to have the retri choose his target during the day is implemented, though, then I think the (current) Medium should be excluded strictly for balance reasons.

Medium is a problem role right now regardless. Hopefully it will be reworked soon into something that the Retributionist can safely use.

wozearly wrote:
Brilliand wrote:I think the Disguiser should function as the role that it shows as in the graveyard, so if it died disguised as Escort then the ret can use it as an Escort.


That would pretty much force Disguisers to avoid disguising as TPs, Escort and Vigilante unless they're 100% certain there's no retri, as those roles will all end up being used against the remaining Mafia. Disguisers have it bad enough without landing that on them as well.


You make a good point. I agree; disguisers disguised as Town should be selectable, but selecting them merely results in discovering that they're a disguiser.
User avatar
Brilliand
Godfather
Godfather
 
Posts: 1503
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:34 pm

Re: Let's Talk About Retributionist

Postby Szebo210 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:50 am

I like the whole idea and concept.

Regarding disguisers I think that the retri shouldn't be able to use their corpse, the ability should fail, just like how the current retri fails to bring back disguisers (so the disguisers will pick a role to disguise independently if there is a ret).
Regarding cleaned roles I think that the retri should be able to determine what roles are the cleaned ones, but shouldn't be able use them. Currently janitor is one of the strongest mafia roles, and a retributionist would become really useless in a game where there a janitor exists. Even if there are NK kills or if a townie was hanged, he could only use that corpse once so he would still be without any job most nights.
Szebo210
Jester
Jester
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:56 am

Next

Return to Feedback

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

cron