The reporting system is a joke

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The reporting system is a joke

Postby Shyrakeso » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:55 am

It is impossible to play the game without being reported for gamethrowing. The whole category should be removed. Shoot someone as vig that is town REPORTED. Execute a townie as jailor REPORTED. Do something that is not meta, REPORTED.

It honestly ruins the game.

Meanwhile nothing at all is done about the toxic players in the community.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby Jerme » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:19 am

The reports are not reviewed by an algorythm, so getting falsely reported does not put your account in danger.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby Achilles » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:48 pm

Shyrakeso wrote:Meanwhile nothing at all is done about the toxic players in the community.


hundreds to thousands of players are suspended or banned every week
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby DiamondRanger8 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:53 am

I don't think being reported is the problem. The judges in the trial system almost never vote guilty on anyone. This causes people who outright threw or directly committed whatever the offense is to not get any punishment at all.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby Flavorable » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:10 am

DiamondRanger8 wrote:I don't think being reported is the problem. The judges in the trial system almost never vote guilty on anyone. This causes people who outright threw or directly committed whatever the offense is to not get any punishment at all.


Every actually valid report that is actually seen and handled by jurors is generally guiltied. The whole point of community-sourcing the reports is so when it comes to borderline cases, a jury of your peers can decide whether they think it's worth a suspension or not.

If you come across any reports that have been voted innocent that you disagree with, feel free to drop it in Trial System Feedback/Discussion so we can look into it and explain where necessary.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby kyuss420 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:46 am

DiamondRanger8 wrote:I don't think being reported is the problem. The judges in the trial system almost never vote guilty on anyone. This causes people who outright threw or directly committed whatever the offense is to not get any punishment at all.



All reports need a minimum number of votes before they get sent to judges to look at. Problem is (which i posted somewhere before), like the OP says, every idiot is spite reporting anyone for anything... like a vigi taking a risk, or a jailor taking a risk. That just floods the trial with innocent G/T reports, so the jurors get bored with wasting their time looking through them and skip G/T altogether.... so sometimes the reports dont get votes and never get to judge queue.

I had someone throw 3 games in a row yesterday, (leaving day 2, naming the coven in their will) and in the 4th and 5th game, they were nuetral, sat their quietly and didnt say a word, yet half the town reported them again, and told everyone in chat to report them... and Im like... why do you want flood the trial system with innocent reports on them? If someone reads the inno report first, they probly gonna skip the guilty ones with her name on it....
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby Kyosji » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:33 am

My 2 cents on this is that yes, players report way too often for nothing, and in turn needs to be addressed. Maybe a list of rules you can access while playing? I will sit there and try to explain that what they are doing is not reportable, and try to tell people where to access the rules, but they don't care. It feels like anything that makes them feel slighted or inconvenienced is going to be reported out of spite. Even trying to explain that they're just making it harder for the people that have to review it goes on deaf ears. I stopped juroring because the sheer amount of just pointless claims that diverted away from real stuff was maddening. I literally started feeling what i was doing wasn't helping anything anymore. I feel a button people can click in game with a list of the rules with examples may help.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby Flavorable » Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:16 am

Kyosji wrote:My 2 cents on this is that yes, players report way too often for nothing, and in turn needs to be addressed. Maybe a list of rules you can access while playing? I will sit there and try to explain that what they are doing is not reportable, and try to tell people where to access the rules, but they don't care. It feels like anything that makes them feel slighted or inconvenienced is going to be reported out of spite. Even trying to explain that they're just making it harder for the people that have to review it goes on deaf ears. I stopped juroring because the sheer amount of just pointless claims that diverted away from real stuff was maddening. I literally started feeling what i was doing wasn't helping anything anymore. I feel a button people can click in game with a list of the rules with examples may help.


The rules are already implemented into the game.
See down here:
Spoiler: Image

Personally, I am very much pro limiting people's reporting abilities for certain categories if they consistently report things that are in no way, shape or form against the rules. And then I don't mean the borderline cases, but moreso the cases of "randomly shot as Vig" or "didn't do what I told him to do, even though I am GF". I personally feel that people who repeatedly misreport on these types of things should be barred from reporting for said reason until they read through the rules and give verification that they understand the rules (which could be implemented in the endgame lobby by a simple pop-up with the rules on it and a checkmark to click), and if said user reports for the same type of thing again, they, for example, get fined for some MP or something.

But that's just my personal opinion as a player and a juror.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby Kyosji » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:01 am

Flavorable wrote:
Kyosji wrote:My 2 cents on this is that yes, players report way too often for nothing, and in turn needs to be addressed. Maybe a list of rules you can access while playing? I will sit there and try to explain that what they are doing is not reportable, and try to tell people where to access the rules, but they don't care. It feels like anything that makes them feel slighted or inconvenienced is going to be reported out of spite. Even trying to explain that they're just making it harder for the people that have to review it goes on deaf ears. I stopped juroring because the sheer amount of just pointless claims that diverted away from real stuff was maddening. I literally started feeling what i was doing wasn't helping anything anymore. I feel a button people can click in game with a list of the rules with examples may help.


The rules are already implemented into the game.
See down here:
*removed cause i can't post BBC*

Personally, I am very much pro limiting people's reporting abilities for certain categories if they consistently report things that are in no way, shape or form against the rules. And then I don't mean the borderline cases, but moreso the cases of "randomly shot as Vig" or "didn't do what I told him to do, even though I am GF". I personally feel that people who repeatedly misreport on these types of things should be barred from reporting for said reason until they read through the rules and give verification that they understand the rules (which could be implemented in the endgame lobby by a simple pop-up with the rules on it and a checkmark to click), and if said user reports for the same type of thing again, they, for example, get fined for some MP or something.

But that's just my personal opinion as a player and a juror.


I meant IN GAME. That location is useless to players already in game, as you can't access them.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby James2 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:36 pm

DiamondRanger8 wrote:I don't think being reported is the problem. The judges in the trial system almost never vote guilty on anyone. This causes people who outright threw or directly committed whatever the offense is to not get any punishment at all.


The problem is that only 20% of moderation effort is directed at actual gamethrowers. Most guilty reports are for PC violations.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby Superalex11 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:17 pm

James2 wrote:The problem is that only 20% of moderation effort is directed at actual gamethrowers.

I was curious about the accuracy of this figure, and so for anyone else curious: it's actually legit.

Checking reportids 2225730 through 2985000 gives me this:
Image
And with some simple math this shows that a mere 21.34% of judged reports are GT reports.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby Flavorable » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:24 pm

Superalex11 wrote:
James2 wrote:The problem is that only 20% of moderation effort is directed at actual gamethrowers.

I was curious about the accuracy of this figure, and so for anyone else curious: it's actually legit.

Checking reportids 2225730 through 2985000 gives me this:
Image
And with some simple math this shows that a mere 21.34% of judged reports are GT reports.


Yeah, sadly, this is accurate. It's generally mostly because jurors are put off by doing gamethrowing reports due to the sheer amount of invalid ones. It's sad, but it's true.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby James2 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:29 pm

HS/H and IU have a higher validity rate because the rules governing what falls under them are so ridiculously expansive.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby kyuss420 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:38 am

James2 wrote:HS/H and IU have a higher validity rate because the rules governing what falls under them are so ridiculously expansive.


No, its just more black and white when you can clearly see someone using hate speech.... highlight their name, look for keywords.... easy guilty, no keywords...easy inno takes less than a minute.

Gamethrow - read through the entire game, just to realise the player was dumb and not actually intending to lose the match... takes 5-10 minutes
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby James2 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:51 am

kyuss420 wrote:
James2 wrote:HS/H and IU have a higher validity rate because the rules governing what falls under them are so ridiculously expansive.


No, its just more black and white . . .


That's substantively the same thing I said, but with a different overtone.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby WaddIes » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:32 pm

I was literally just suspended today because I executed a mayor when I was jailor (I thought they were just saying it to survive the night) so I took the risk (they weren't revealed). They used something I said about recognizing them from the previous game and said it was because of that which was the reason I killed them when I never said it myself (one of the mods said that I did which actually annoyed me; I checked the log, there is nothing about me saying I killed them because of past game things). So they and everyone else reported me for "game throwing" for killing the mayor. The stupid thing about it is that all the 'game throwing' reports were not seen as guilty, but the one for "hate speech/ harassment" was. Its ridiculous where they count some of these rules and how far they are willing to stretch it. So just to be safe, don't say anything about acknowledging someone from a previous game, these reporters are learning the system.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby Brilliand » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:05 am

WaddIes wrote:They used something I said about recognizing them from the previous game and said it was because of that which was the reason I killed them when I never said it myself (one of the mods said that I did which actually annoyed me; I checked the log, there is nothing about me saying I killed them because of past game things).


Waddles: well, u let the entire town draw last game, so its the least i can do


What does this mean to you?
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby JaguarJumps » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:43 pm

The real problem is that life is not black and white, therefore treating any situation here as though it is black and white is illogical.
Booker T wrote:"Can you dig it? SUCKAAAAAA!!!!"

White Canary wrote:"Yeah? Well, even vigilantes have to pay their bills."

Citizen Steel wrote:"They beat him with the Care Bear Stare."

Moe Syzslak wrote:"They're heading for the old mill!""No we're not!""Let's head to the old mill anyway, get some cider.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby Brilliand » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:45 pm

JaguarJumps wrote:The real problem is that life is not black and white, therefore treating any situation here as though it is black and white is illogical.


Nah man, logic itself is a black-and-white thing. Anything that isn't black-and-white isn't logic.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby JaguarJumps » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:33 pm

That is a fairly accurate summary of how ToS people view things.
Booker T wrote:"Can you dig it? SUCKAAAAAA!!!!"

White Canary wrote:"Yeah? Well, even vigilantes have to pay their bills."

Citizen Steel wrote:"They beat him with the Care Bear Stare."

Moe Syzslak wrote:"They're heading for the old mill!""No we're not!""Let's head to the old mill anyway, get some cider.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby Brilliand » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:43 pm

JaguarJumps wrote:That is a fairly accurate summary of how ToS people view things.


Cool. I'm not even sure what I meant by that tbh.

I also think that you didn't really address anything with your vague statement about things not being black-or-white. I mean, you have to reach a conclusion of some sort, no matter which shade of gray the situation happens to fall under.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby WaddIes » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:09 pm

Brilliand wrote:
WaddIes wrote:They used something I said about recognizing them from the previous game and said it was because of that which was the reason I killed them when I never said it myself (one of the mods said that I did which actually annoyed me; I checked the log, there is nothing about me saying I killed them because of past game things).


Waddles: well, u let the entire town draw last game, so its the least i can do


What does this mean to you?


its a reasonable question, to me it was obvious that it wasn't the reason I was executing them. What isn't seen in the log is how long it took them to claim their role, so I was ready to execute anyway. I did think it was doing a favor to the town because how they talked before saying their role seemed sus to me. If I had a reason to not think they were lying about their role I wouldn't have exe. Its annoying when a mod or another player tries to bend this to take it for what they want it to mean. I think they took this situation to serious because the guy and his friends sent many reports my way for being salty that they died to jailor. a mod said that I explicitly said that I killed them because of something that happened in another game, but that just is not true. I even say a couple of times during the game itself that I thought they were faking being the mayor or whatever to survive the night. It was a mistake to kill them, but that's all it was.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby WaddIes » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:12 pm

reread my message, just to clarify, I was executing them based on how they said they were mayor in jail.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby Superalex11 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:16 pm

@WaddIes it's actually pretty... odd how your report got guiltied in the first place. As I've come to understand the Trials System, gamethrowing is really only ever guiltied under the most obvious of circumstances. Considering there's non-negligible potential you weren't gamethrowing (as evident in the report), then as the rules exist now within the system as it exists now, your report shouldn't have been guiltied. Period. Simple as that. Worst case scenario is it gets duped for HSH and then guiltied for that, but even then it's a hard case to make given the only indication is a single line of text made off-hand when considered exclusive of any other context.

Again, I will stress that gamethrowers only deserve ire and the system doesn't do nearly enough to stop them. But the fact that it doesn't do enough to stop them and yet a case like this gets guiltied is baffling.

So I've said it before and I'll say it again: Naru and TP, you two need to get your act together and fix this fucking system. I am sick of your worthless excuses for allowing it to rot as it has, and I'm not alone in holding that sentiment. We all know that BMG has zero interest in even looking at Trials for the foreseeable future, so this is your responsibility.
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Re: The reporting system is a joke

Postby Brilliand » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:44 pm

Superalex11 wrote:Worst case scenario is it gets duped for HSH and then guiltied for that


This is an HS/H report we're talking about.
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