Achilles wrote:Mafioso
Allow a 1 time use per game Unstoppable Attack.
Achilles wrote:Framer
Limited number of uses to target your own Mafia members, making them appear innocent.
Achilles wrote:Additionally we want the Framer to be able to mess with the Lookout's results. Potentially Framing your own teammates makes them invisible to the Lookout or framing non-Mafia makes them show up on the Lookout's results.
Achilles wrote:Disguiser
Instead of taking on the role of your target, you can select from a list of all possible roles to disguise as for the night.
Achilles wrote:Retributionist
Can resurrect a Disguiser who had disguised as a townie upon death.
Resurrects a town member as a Citizen/Townie (vanilla town member with no abilities).
Flavorable wrote:I 100% agree with Hiway's post above my own here ^
And I want to put an extra point into the mafioso change proposed here that it would completely nullify the BodyGuard in a Coven All/Any setting. A role that is already quite weak and situational compared to its counterpart: the Crusader.
If these changes are specifically only for Ranked, then pretend I didn't say anything.
TurdPile wrote:Personally, would like to pitch in the idea again of shuffled results for Framer to get people's take on it:
If a name-listing TI (such lookout or tracker) targets the person who the Framer also targets, their results are shuffled to include random names. IE Tracker visits PlayerA who got framed, Tracker would potentially see them visit someone that they didn't actually visit. Alternatively, a Lookout would see, for example, 2 people that never visited them, rather than the 2 people that actually did. This would also help with the Jailor meta issue as mafioso + framer could tag team and not be immediately exposed in their attempt.
Naru2008 wrote:In addition, I'll throw in something a lot of people have suggested;
- Make Day 1 a non-discussion day. It'll prevent Jailors from claiming Day 1 and asking for TP/LO. This won't completely solve the problem, as they can claim Day 2, but it does give evils a chance to get rid of the Jailor prior to the first day of being able to chat, which would punish Town heavily. I personally don't think it's a one-in-all solution, and I've never exactly been a fan of it, but thinking about it, it wouldn't hurt to give it a trial run and if it doesn't work well, or isn't well-received, reverse it back to normal.
Flavorable wrote:Naru2008 wrote:In addition, I'll throw in something a lot of people have suggested;
- Make Day 1 a non-discussion day. It'll prevent Jailors from claiming Day 1 and asking for TP/LO. This won't completely solve the problem, as they can claim Day 2, but it does give evils a chance to get rid of the Jailor prior to the first day of being able to chat, which would punish Town heavily. I personally don't think it's a one-in-all solution, and I've never exactly been a fan of it, but thinking about it, it wouldn't hurt to give it a trial run and if it doesn't work well, or isn't well-received, reverse it back to normal.
To give my two cents on this: While this might be helpful to battle a jailor meta in Ranked, specifically, it's again very unnecessarily gamechanging for other modes. Again, of course, I can only speak from a Coven All/Any standpoint, but it'd remove a lot of D1 tactics from that gamemode that do actually work out, such as Vet baits, Medusa baits and Day 1 shoutouts to have something to base scumreading off of.
Royee wrote:giving mafioso 1x unstoppable kill will slay neutral killings' winrate by a lot with what is already left.
Aureolin1 wrote:Royee wrote:giving mafioso 1x unstoppable kill will slay neutral killings' winrate by a lot with what is already left.
I do agree this change would be extremely unfair to NK's. Perhaps this unstoppable kill would be better if it only ignored Town Protectives, similar to the way Hex Master with the Necronomicon is able to successfully kill the Bodyguard's target.
Achilles wrote:Mafioso
Allow a 1 time use per game Unstoppable Attack.
Achilles wrote:Framer
Limited number of uses to target your own Mafia members, making them appear innocent. Additionally we want the Framer to be able to mess with the Lookout's results. Potentially Framing your own teammates makes them invisible to the Lookout or framing non-Mafia makes them show up on the Lookout's results.
Achilles wrote:Disguiser
Instead of taking on the role of your target, you can select from a list of all possible roles to disguise as for the night.
Achilles wrote:Retributionist
Can resurrect a Disguiser who had disguised as a townie upon death.
Resurrects a town member as a Citizen/Townie (vanilla town member with no abilities).
Achilles wrote:This nerfs the power of a Retributionist substantially but doesn't necessarily make the Retributionist more fun to play. Perhaps another option would be to give them 2 resurrections but the vanilla Townie will die the following night.
Royee wrote:Aureolin1 wrote:Royee wrote:giving mafioso 1x unstoppable kill will slay neutral killings' winrate by a lot with what is already left.
I do agree this change would be extremely unfair to NK's. Perhaps this unstoppable kill would be better if it only ignored Town Protectives, similar to the way Hex Master with the Necronomicon is able to successfully kill the Bodyguard's target.
It is called astral visit
Current Thoughts
Town is stronger than Mafia, especially at higher ELOs.
Mafioso
Allow a 1 time use per game Unstoppable Attack.
Thought process: In the current meta the Jailor has no fear of announcing himself on day 1, knowing that Town Protective's and the Lookout will guard him, making it impossible for the Mafia to deal with them. If the Mafioso has 1 Unstoppable Attack per game it would give the Mafia an opportunity to bypass Town Protective's on a priority role. Potentially this could be a 2 for 1 kill in the event of a BodyGuard. An added bonus is that this gives the Mafioso something unique to help the Mafia outside of just following the Godfather's orders. The Lookout would still be an issue but that is potentially addressed in an another change below.
Framer
Limited number of uses to target your own Mafia members, making them appear innocent. Additionally we want the Framer to be able to mess with the Lookout's results. Potentially Framing your own teammates makes them invisible to the Lookout or framing non-Mafia makes them show up on the Lookout's results.
Disguiser
Instead of taking on the role of your target, you can select from a list of all possible roles to disguise as for the night.
Retributionist
Can resurrect a Disguiser who had disguised as a townie upon death.
Resurrects a town member as a Citizen/Townie (vanilla town member with no abilities).
This nerfs the power of a Retributionist substantially but doesn't necessarily make the Retributionist more fun to play. Perhaps another option would be to give them 2 resurrections but the vanilla Townie will die the following night.
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