The feeling of TOS being neglected

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The feeling of TOS being neglected

Postby Soulshade55r » Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:44 am

Sorry if this comes off as a rant I feel like this is Important to say because I believe theirs so much wasted potential in TOS, I've seen personally one of my favourite social deduction games slowly crumble into nothing with TOL, now I barely play TOS anymore just because the game is so bland and gotten less fun overtime, with basically the only two active game modes being ranked or all any (normal/coven)

Community perception:
A lot of people (including me), feel like the game has been neglected lately, we all understand that traitors in Salem was a big project (I'm not going to really go into detail here but it's clear that people still prefer TOS, I gave it a try and it wasn't for me). But now that we're more then years in from no major updates its starting to feel like theirs generally hope for any sort of future changes and that the game will steadily drop in numbers, This game is pretty successful still remains pretty popular for a niche, A lot of people just want some adjustments and things to be excited about really, forums have slowly died overtime due to many things, biggest is lack of feedback and clarity to what's even the future of TOS, lack of hope any meaningful changes will be made why discuss stuff? when people know nothings going to likely be added.

Balance:
Town of salem currently is in this weird state where a lot of the balance is really awkward for one, we've had many steps in the right direction but it's nearly not enough, Putting Nks into ranked? ok but did any of the nks get properly balanced for ranked play? nope. Has anyone done anything about the balance of Jester/exe in ranked nope? has any balance been made to make roles such as Spy, Transporter or Jailor more fair? nope. We need some good and decent balance for ranked to be a successful and fun game mode, we need to either move to a Fun ranked mode with neutrals and more chaos factors or move to a balanced ranked mode, this half attempt of being "fun" with chaotic roles such as NK doesn't really work. Neutral evil outside of witch is a joke, All any? I'm sorry but its fun but it feels like its the only playable decent game mode currently.
Favourite Roles (To play)
Spoiler: Town: Jailor
Mafia: Consort
NE: Witch
NB: Guardian Angel
Coven: Necromancer
NC: Pirate
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Re: The feeling of TOS being neglected

Postby CrazySheriff » Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:24 pm

Few Changes That Should be Made ASAP

Jailor nerfed
Should only have 2 executes
Should have limited jails, either a set amount or have a condition that limits when Jailor can jail. Or simply maybe Jailor should lose Jailing ability after using up executes

TP/LO meta abolished
This is more to increase the longevity of the game. A meta that's been around since the game came out is no longer fun. They had this meta planned when they got permission from Dark.Revalent to make a standalone game of SC2Mafia. Seeing as a few of the roles that they didn't add were the 3 roles that could counter tp/lo meta
Auditor, Judge, Mafia Jailor. Add Auditor and Mafia Jailor. Judge is not important at this stage
Auditor - converts Town Members into Citizens and Mafia into Goons. Fails against Night Immune targets
Mafia Jailor - Only gets 1 execute and cannot jail after using that execute it, this prevents it from becoming a glorified Consort

More Claim Space

Vigilante Loses Guilt -
Better for Mafia to be able to cc the kill and maybe have a mislynch, rather than a Town Member being instant confirmable for the town. Also balances its power level with Jailor

More T/S roles
Town Support roles should have one simple support function and should be the most basic roles that are added to the game. Town Support roles allow easy claims for evils and make scum-reading for town more difficult. Oracle, Street Racer, Enchantress are a few ideas but I'm sure there's plenty. Seeing as most Town Support roles shouldn't be in Town Support, we will need more added to the game.

Less Unique Roles
Veteran for starters

Role Alignment Changes
Transporter is too overpowered for Town Support and serves as more of a Town Protective. Either move to Town Protective or bring back Town Power or Adv Town.
Mayor needs to go to a Government alignment and be excluded from Random Town. Add Constable and Marshall to this alignment so there's variety too it.
Retributionist needs changes so its not RNG dependent; should be able to use Veteran, Nerfed Jailor and Transporter. + Other roles that are added to the game

Executioner and Jester both need to go to Neutral Chaos or Benign. Neutral Evil roles should be for roles that cannot win with Town. Add Auditor to the game and you have another role that can spawn instead of Witch. Executioner and Jester were in NB back in the SC2Mafia games, but ToS didnt add as many true Neutral Evil roles, so lazily added Exe/Jester so the alignment didn't feel lonely
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Re: The feeling of TOS being neglected

Postby cob709 » Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:13 pm

I agree with a lot of what you've said here, especially about ranked balance.
Role-madness setups are naturally difficult to make fair. However, there are some general guidelines that should be followed, such as preventing widespread confirmability.
Regarding NKS, they add an element of fun unpredictability to the game. However, it often creates detrimental game states such as kingmakers.
As for NEs, Witch is the only viable role for NE as they are strictly anti-town. All NE roles should always side with evils and strive for the town's defeat.

Nevertheless, discussions about game-balance doesn't matter if development and support for the game has ended
There are lots of differing opinions between everyone on what direction the game goes, it's up to the developers to make the final decision.
Please continue to work on and improve ToS
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Re: The feeling of TOS being neglected

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:57 am

Spoiler:
CrazySheriff wrote:Few Changes That Should be Made ASAP

Jailor nerfed
Should only have 2 executes
Should have limited jails, either a set amount or have a condition that limits when Jailor can jail. Or simply maybe Jailor should lose Jailing ability after using up executes

TP/LO meta abolished
This is more to increase the longevity of the game. A meta that's been around since the game came out is no longer fun. They had this meta planned when they got permission from Dark.Revalent to make a standalone game of SC2Mafia. Seeing as a few of the roles that they didn't add were the 3 roles that could counter tp/lo meta
Auditor, Judge, Mafia Jailor. Add Auditor and Mafia Jailor. Judge is not important at this stage
Auditor - converts Town Members into Citizens and Mafia into Goons. Fails against Night Immune targets
Mafia Jailor - Only gets 1 execute and cannot jail after using that execute it, this prevents it from becoming a glorified Consort

More Claim Space

Vigilante Loses Guilt -
Better for Mafia to be able to cc the kill and maybe have a mislynch, rather than a Town Member being instant confirmable for the town. Also balances its power level with Jailor

More T/S roles
Town Support roles should have one simple support function and should be the most basic roles that are added to the game. Town Support roles allow easy claims for evils and make scum-reading for town more difficult. Oracle, Street Racer, Enchantress are a few ideas but I'm sure there's plenty. Seeing as most Town Support roles shouldn't be in Town Support, we will need more added to the game.

Less Unique Roles
Veteran for starters

Role Alignment Changes
Transporter is too overpowered for Town Support and serves as more of a Town Protective. Either move to Town Protective or bring back Town Power or Adv Town.
Mayor needs to go to a Government alignment and be excluded from Random Town. Add Constable and Marshall to this alignment so there's variety too it.
Retributionist needs changes so its not RNG dependent; should be able to use Veteran, Nerfed Jailor and Transporter. + Other roles that are added to the game

Executioner and Jester both need to go to Neutral Chaos or Benign. Neutral Evil roles should be for roles that cannot win with Town. Add Auditor to the game and you have another role that can spawn instead of Witch. Executioner and Jester were in NB back in the SC2Mafia games, but ToS didnt add as many true Neutral Evil roles, so lazily added Exe/Jester so the alignment didn't feel lonely


This isnt SC2 mafia

Stop
Trying
To
Copy
That
Game

And dont come with "the game is already super similar", that doesnt means it should be even more



Regarding the post, I dont have much to add considering we have already discussed this in other places
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Re: The feeling of TOS being neglected

Postby CrazySheriff » Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:45 pm

Stop
Trying
To
Copy
That
Game
'

Dude the SC2Mafia creator gave rights to BMG. This game was literally a copy and paste of that when it came out; obviously leaving out Jailor counters and buffing Jailor because they wanted to create a "fun meta" which is no longer fun btw

Anyway, every point I've made is valid. I'm not suggesting this game become more like SC2. I'm suggesting more variety, which SC2 just happens to have
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Re: The feeling of TOS being neglected

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:09 am

CrazySheriff wrote:
Stop
Trying
To
Copy
That
Game
'

Dude the SC2Mafia creator gave rights to BMG. This game was literally a copy and paste of that when it came out; obviously leaving out Jailor counters and buffing Jailor because they wanted to create a "fun meta" which is no longer fun btw

Anyway, every point I've made is valid. I'm not suggesting this game become more like SC2. I'm suggesting more variety, which SC2 just happens to have


You are suggesting to add roles that are in SC2, just because BMG has rights it doesnt means we should keep going this way, we should be original and do our own ideas
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Re: The feeling of TOS being neglected

Postby 2FPSpersecond » Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:30 pm

Someone developed a TOS mod and added 5 roles from SC2mafia. The guy's name is Tuba Antics on youtube. so these roles are unofficially in the game now
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Re: The feeling of TOS being neglected

Postby Soulshade55r » Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:47 am

2FPSpersecond wrote:Someone developed a TOS mod and added 5 roles from SC2mafia. The guy's name is Tuba Antics on youtube. so these roles are unofficially in the game now

Jackal seem's really intresting as a chaos role, gotta say I kinda like a lot of those unoffical roles, Not really fan of marshall being another easily confirmable town support though.
Favourite Roles (To play)
Spoiler: Town: Jailor
Mafia: Consort
NE: Witch
NB: Guardian Angel
Coven: Necromancer
NC: Pirate
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