The game's policy on leaving rounds early is too aggressive.

[kyuss420]

lmao ''no cost''

dear Mr Business man at BMG,
Can you please spend time, money and resources on adding things for no cost. Can you please work for free or bankrupt the company within a year, because I dont like playing Medium.

Your friend, Silver Cruz

[Ezradekezra]

Inb4 lock

[SilverCruz]

Quote

You have no faith in this company, huh?

[dbpeanut]

Quote

You have no faith in this company, huh?

I find a lot of the community lacks faith. The people on the forums lack realism.
Money doesn't come out of nowhere, but when you add up Coven, paid accounts and spammers constantly making new accounts, they should have a decently solid amount of income. Or at least it's consistent.

[kyuss420]

Quote

You have no faith in this company, huh?

I find a lot of the community lacks faith. The people on the forums lack realism.
Money doesn't come out of nowhere, but when you add up Coven, paid accounts and spammers constantly making new accounts, they should have a decently solid amount of income. Or at least it's consistent.

so they need 100 new accounts created per week to pay half of 1 guys liveable wage - (100 x 5 = 500) if they have 5 people employed, they need 500 new accounts per week. (altho Idk how theyd find employees to stick around at that price)

Now back in 2011, I was told by a dev of a Facebook game (that went bankrupt), that Facebook charged $25 per hour for server space. (thats 1 x $25 purchase per hour before turning a 'profit') 24 hours per day = $700 per day for servers (at 2011 prices), so theres another 700 new accounts per day needed. - 4900 new accounts per week.

So youre looking at 5500 new accounts per week, unless they have cheaper servers (which they obviously do). Because I dont see 5500 new names in the game every week.... I see the same names all the time...Im honestly curious how the game hasnt closed down in the last year or 2.....

So the reality is, that one off payments dont keep servers running for long, so if you add up all those things you said, that money is long gone. The reality is, that paying someone $5 in the real world, is going to get you less than 10 minutes of work....

[SilverCruz]

Okay, where did this start from? Role blacklisting, cool.

People getting roles they resent harms the gameplay because it puts them in a bad mood and, even if they don't leave outright, their frustration is going to have a negative impact, and as far as Merit Points, scrolls are too expensive to effectively mitigate that problem.

This game also also probably needs a donation box or something, but then I think that anything that is trying to make money should just have one of those.

[dolphina]

the minmax strategy to outlast all minmax strategies

“if you’re bad at it, don’t play it”

[SilverCruz]

Your defenses are so flat. Sorry, I know it's an empty truth.

Also some roles just are bad. Like Framer, Escort, and Disguiser.

[kyuss420]

Okay, where did this start from? Role blacklisting, cool.

People getting roles they resent harms the gameplay because it puts them in a bad mood and, even if they don't leave outright, their frustration is going to have a negative impact, and as far as Merit Points, scrolls are too expensive to effectively mitigate that problem.

This game also also probably needs a donation box or something, but then I think that anything that is trying to make money should just have one of those.

Exactly, and players who are on tilt are easier to manipulate in an exploitative style of play.

Blacklisting roles just means that theres no need for scrolls (the only consumable left worth buying) as I can just blacklist every role, except the ones I want. As far as the merit point ''problem'', its not a problem if you play every game to the end. Its easy to gain 10k+ merit points per week, buying you 20? scrolls per week (idk, i buy em blindly - bumping them up to 30 when i run out and my MP count never drops below 90k - but i never leave games until the end game lobby)

Getting roles you dont want is part of the game...just as some roles are weaker than others...may as well make everyone Jailor, and every mafia Godfather, that way everyone will have the most powerful role of the faction they rolled.

Thats why they have scrolls, to increase the chances of getting the role you want. If you never play a certain role, youre never going to get any good at that role, and you wont improve to being useful with the role if you keep doing the same dumb moves with it over and over...

So there you go...leaving rounds early means you will have no MP for scrolls, which in turn increases your chances of getting the same role you hate.....the devs have implemented ways to increase getting your favourite roles, you can hardly blame them for your own decision to choose not to utilise the available features.

[dbpeanut]

Quote

You have no faith in this company, huh?

I find a lot of the community lacks faith. The people on the forums lack realism.
Money doesn't come out of nowhere, but when you add up Coven, paid accounts and spammers constantly making new accounts, they should have a decently solid amount of income. Or at least it's consistent.

so they need 100 new accounts created per week to pay half of 1 guys liveable wage - (100 x 5 = 500) if they have 5 people employed, they need 500 new accounts per week. (altho Idk how theyd find employees to stick around at that price)

Now back in 2011, I was told by a dev of a Facebook game (that went bankrupt), that Facebook charged $25 per hour for server space. (thats 1 x $25 purchase per hour before turning a 'profit') 24 hours per day = $700 per day for servers (at 2011 prices), so theres another 700 new accounts per day needed. - 4900 new accounts per week.

So youre looking at 5500 new accounts per week, unless they have cheaper servers (which they obviously do). Because I dont see 5500 new names in the game every week.... I see the same names all the time...Im honestly curious how the game hasnt closed down in the last year or 2.....

So the reality is, that one off payments dont keep servers running for long, so if you add up all those things you said, that money is long gone. The reality is, that paying someone $5 in the real world, is going to get you less than 10 minutes of work....

Good thing we can purchase cosmetics, desktop premium, mobile premium, the sound track and the board game (if they still offer the last one).
Which obviously they aren't making a lot of money from- they would be though if there were more people satisfied with the game. See the issue?
In all honesty, you can keep saying that they don't make enough money to put in the effort, but it's more like they don't put in enough effort to make the money they require. I get it. They're small. But when you got games like Among Us, which is unbelievably successful in the same genre of game, Stardew Valley, which has undying support to the point where people actually bought the board game for it, and one of the OGs itself, Binding of Isaac, a testiment to how much indies can have an impact, the excuses stop having an impact.
You want to know the key reason why the game is losing support constantly? Because we don't have any back and forth with the devs. Because there are several problems that even in the older days that were never fixed or even attempted to be addressed.
Because we have a group of individuals who will defend the devs no matter what the actual criticism is.
This whole thread is proof of just how hard you guys will defend the devs even when it's justifiable criticism.

[kyuss420]

Good thing we can purchase cosmetics, desktop premium, mobile premium, the sound track and the board game (if they still offer the last one).

but those arent worth buying

I only use 1 cosmetic, why would I buy more?
I thought premium was included in the $5? idk - I bought the coven DLC on my first day to play with friends, and claimed coven roles in classic for the first month..... maybe premiuim came with that?
the soundtrack is easily downloaded for free... are they really selling that?
The boardgame isnt the computer game tho, taking profits from 1 thing to sustain another is a shit business practice, just get rid of the non profitable part and make $$$$ (unless youre using it for a tax dodge) I mean the devs have their own business model, and theyre not going to change it because of a suggestion thread

So why dont you suggest some kickstarters, to implement the things you want, and let the community decide whether theyre worth paying for? Custom kickstarter....new role kickstarter....etc etc....

dont ask me... i just came here to point out that leaving early fucks over other players wins, even if youve lost........since the OP thinks he should be able to quit just because he put himself in a losing situation. (Then complains he has no MP for scrolls to avoid the roles he hates)

[dbpeanut]

Good thing we can purchase cosmetics, desktop premium, mobile premium, the sound track and the board game (if they still offer the last one).

but those arent worth buying

I only use 1 cosmetic, why would I buy more?
I thought premium was included in the $5? idk - I bought the coven DLC on my first day to play with friends, and claimed coven roles in classic for the first month..... maybe premiuim came with that?
the soundtrack is easily downloaded for free... are they really selling that?
The boardgame isnt the computer game tho, taking profits from 1 thing to sustain another is a shit business practice, just get rid of the non profitable part and make $$$$ (unless youre using it for a tax dodge) I mean the devs have their own business model, and theyre not going to change it because of a suggestion thread

So why dont you suggest some kickstarters, to implement the things you want, and let the community decide whether theyre worth paying for? Custom kickstarter....new role kickstarter....etc etc....

dont ask me... i just came here to point out that leaving early fucks over other players wins, even if youve lost........since the OP thinks he should be able to quit just because he put himself in a losing situation. (Then complains he has no MP for scrolls to avoid the roles he hates)

If you had actually read my thing, you'd know I believe that the devs don't do enough to get more income. Game development isn't exactly like other jobs- it's almost solely based on game reception whenever you're anything smaller than AA studios.
Clearly, you guys haven't grasped the idea that the majority of the community doesn't exactly think fondly of the devs- mostly due to lack of back and forth.
Here, we have a post CRITICIZING the idea of a leaver buster or punishing leavers in general rather than trying to find a solution, and everybody, including a fucking administrator thinks that trying to dunk on them is the smartest idea. Newsflash- people do look at the forums. They just don't comment. So when you guys all try to dunk on a guy for criticizing something the majority of the community dislikes, what do you think the end result is?
They gave their feedback and wanted dev feedback. Not for an admin to state that them getting banned is a "fact" or for 3 people to repeatedly state ad hominems or try to discredit their feedback.

[dbpeanut]

Oh and FYI, the board game was made to help fund ideas they had for the game.

[SilverCruz]

Getting roles you dont want is part of the game...just as some roles are weaker than others...may as well make everyone Jailor, and every mafia Godfather, that way everyone will have the most powerful role of the faction they rolled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4

Spoiler: Godfather sucks as a role. You know that TMK idea about letting any member of the Mafia commit the night's attack at the expense of their role action? That should be a thing, and along with that Godfather and Mafioso being removed outright, Godfather in particular instead becoming a trait applied to a member of the Mafia (like Coven having the Necronomicon) that gives Basic defense and Protection immunity on top of their actual role.

put himself in a losing situation.

Oh, sure, it's my fault when I'm a Consort, all three of the other Mafia quit for no stated reason, and the game has no response to that other than "Welp, guess they'll die.", but when that exact same thing happens to you, you're completely free of liability in the situation and they're the ones who are bad, right? Not you, and certainly not the game itself even though there's been over six years for it to come up with literally anything to prevent this sort of situation from being so catastrophic for the match. Get off your high horse.

A solution that isn't ideal is still better than leaving the problem completely unattended. Mediums are another problem that has been left completely unattended. That role could very easily be Quitproofed, as described here and the Mafia could be occasionally quitproofed by allowing the Forger and Janitor to target members of the Mafia at will so that, if a member of the Mafia quits, they can cover that up. That latter point in particular isn't ideal because it relies on there being a Forger or Janitor in the first place, but it's still better than nothing.

[dbpeanut]

Getting roles you dont want is part of the game...just as some roles are weaker than others...may as well make everyone Jailor, and every mafia Godfather, that way everyone will have the most powerful role of the faction they rolled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4

Godfather sucks as a role. You know that TMK idea about letting any member of the Mafia commit the night's attack at the expense of their role action? That should be a thing, and along with that Godfather and Mafioso being removed outright, Godfather in particular instead becoming a trait applied to a member of the Mafia (like Coven having the Necronomicon) that gives Basic defense and Protection immunity on top of their actual role.

put himself in a losing situation.

Oh, sure, it's my fault when I'm I'm a Consort and all three of the other Mafia quit for no stated reason and the game has no response to that other than "Welp, guess they'll die.", but when that exact same thing happens to you, you're completely free of liability in the situation and they're the ones who are bad, right? Not you, and certainly not the game itself even though there's been over six years for it to come up with literally anything to prevent this sort of situation from being so catastrophic for the match. Get off your high horse.

A solution that isn't ideal is still better than leaving the problem completely unattended. Mediums are another problem that has been left completely unattended. That role could very easily be Quitproofed, as described here and the Mafia could be occasionally quitproofed by allowing the Forger and Janitor to target members of the Mafia at will so that, if a member of the Mafia quits, they can cover that up. That latter point in particular isn't ideal because it relies on there being a Forger or Janitor in the first place, but it's still better than nothing.

No no, don't give feedback and give your ideas of a fix- that's not what the forums are for silly! They're to discredit and attack you while the devs either don't see any of it or aren't willing to implement it!
Silly goose, trying to be logical because after 5-6 years of game time, you'd expect some steps in the right direction!

[SilverCruz]

Exactly, and players who are on tilt are easier to manipulate in an exploitative style of play.

Blacklisting roles just means that theres no need for scrolls (the only consumable left worth buying) as I can just blacklist every role, except the ones I want. As far as the merit point ''problem'', its not a problem if you play every game to the end. Its easy to gain 10k+ merit points per week, buying you 20? scrolls per week (idk, i buy em blindly - bumping them up to 30 when i run out and my MP count never drops below 90k - but i never leave games until the end game lobby)

Getting roles you dont want is part of the game...just as some roles are weaker than others...may as well make everyone Jailor, and every mafia Godfather, that way everyone will have the most powerful role of the faction they rolled.

Thats why they have scrolls, to increase the chances of getting the role you want. If you never play a certain role, youre never going to get any good at that role, and you wont improve to being useful with the role if you keep doing the same dumb moves with it over and over...

So there you go...leaving rounds early means you will have no MP for scrolls, which in turn increases your chances of getting the same role you hate.....the devs have implemented ways to increase getting your favourite roles, you can hardly blame them for your own decision to choose not to utilise the available features.

A'ight, this is really late, but I need to settle this real quick. You get more Merit Points than me. I have a grandfather account, so I do not have any Merit Boosters from Web Premium, Steam, or iOS. I might be incorrect, but I'm pretty sure I get 20 Merit Points on a win without the bonus. That means that for me, I need 40 wins to get one Scroll. Meanwhile, someone who has all three, if the Wiki is to be believed, will instead get 160 Merit Points for a win, meaning they get a Scroll after 5 wins. I'm not going to assume that you have all three Merit Boosters, but considering that if I won every round consecutively I'd still need to churn through about 500 of them for 10,000 Merit Points, 12 scrolls and change I stress, I hope you can see where I'm coming from when I point that out, nevermind that even if I were getting the standard 40 points (or if I am, I don't know, and it's not the time to do a round to check), that'd still be 20 wins for one scroll, which is still too damn many.

[EqsyLootz]

Your defenses are so flat. Sorry, I know it's an empty truth.

Also some roles just are bad. Like Framer, Escort, and Disguiser.

You named only 1 bad role there. Escort and Disguiser are great roles you're just bad at them.

[EqsyLootz]

Good thing we can purchase cosmetics, desktop premium, mobile premium, the sound track and the board game (if they still offer the last one).

but those arent worth buying

I only use 1 cosmetic, why would I buy more?
I thought premium was included in the $5? idk - I bought the coven DLC on my first day to play with friends, and claimed coven roles in classic for the first month..... maybe premiuim came with that?
the soundtrack is easily downloaded for free... are they really selling that?
The boardgame isnt the computer game tho, taking profits from 1 thing to sustain another is a shit business practice, just get rid of the non profitable part and make $$$$ (unless youre using it for a tax dodge) I mean the devs have their own business model, and theyre not going to change it because of a suggestion thread

So why dont you suggest some kickstarters, to implement the things you want, and let the community decide whether theyre worth paying for? Custom kickstarter....new role kickstarter....etc etc....

dont ask me... i just came here to point out that leaving early fucks over other players wins, even if youve lost........since the OP thinks he should be able to quit just because he put himself in a losing situation. (Then complains he has no MP for scrolls to avoid the roles he hates)

If you had actually read my thing, you'd know I believe that the devs don't do enough to get more income. Game development isn't exactly like other jobs- it's almost solely based on game reception whenever you're anything smaller than AA studios.
Clearly, you guys haven't grasped the idea that the majority of the community doesn't exactly think fondly of the devs- mostly due to lack of back and forth.
Here, we have a post CRITICIZING the idea of a leaver buster or punishing leavers in general rather than trying to find a solution, and everybody, including a fucking administrator thinks that trying to dunk on them is the smartest idea. Newsflash- people do look at the forums. They just don't comment. So when you guys all try to dunk on a guy for criticizing something the majority of the community dislikes, what do you think the end result is?
They gave their feedback and wanted dev feedback. Not for an admin to state that them getting banned is a "fact" or for 3 people to repeatedly state ad hominems or try to discredit their feedback.

You're saying they don't do enough to earn income yet there's people like SilverCruz who complain about everything yet refuse to even benefit the income of the managers. Evidentally understandable. Not everyone is required to pay for the game. I just find it so awkward how they expect so much such as TMK, Jailor Switch, Leaving changes, Bots to control leaved players. From a small low income dev team!??!

[SilverCruz]

Escort has no feedback and because of that is only particularly good at disrupting the town, deadlocking, and dying to a Serial Killer and telling the Medium who it was, with deadlocking being something that shouldn't exist. Disguiser is a bad hard counter that sells out other members of the Mafia when it goes down if there's a Spy unless it just does nothing, and if there's not its remaining abilities are just as scattershot as the original Framer's were due to requiring another of three specific roles to do pick the same target on the same night and relying on non-Mafia roles for disrupting Investigators instead of being able to just pick an investigation bracket at will, its best use-case being to cover up a hit on the Jailor who declared their role Day 1 after the Doctor/Bodyguard drops even though that's still a gamble to commit that attack thanks to the three Random Towns and if there's not even a Lookout anyway, or they ignored the Jailor for whatever reason (I never listen to a Day 1 Jailor claim because I have better things to be doing than just expecting the Mafia to actually be dense enough to commit an attack against someone who did that), then it's not even helping and you nearly always benefit more from having a Consigliere, Janitor, or Forger. And of course, being a hard counter, when all the TI are down it basically turns into a Mafia Civilian.

The managers need to do more than say "no we read the forums" once and then completely ignore a direct message asking questions. That's the core here. I'm not aggravated because I'm not getting every last thing I suggest, I'm aggravated because best I can tell nothing is going toward dealing with any of the problems that have been problems for around six years and I can't get so much as a "I read this." on any of those suggestions, so kindly explain why I should be expected to financially support a game that I find fundamentally broken when I have no faith that it will actually improve in the ways I see it as needing to improve. It was their choice to allow grandfather accounts to be a thing.

Also, I checked, and I do get 40 Merit Points on a win, not 20. That's still 20 Wins for one lousy scroll, and that's still too many.