kyuss420 wrote:SilverCruz wrote:kyuss420 wrote:so youre saying jailor should be nerfed because you dont like getting mafia roles, and feel that you should win a match by joining the lobby?
Well, clearly not, but question with a question. If a fighting game has a character with an infinite combo that takes the opponent from 100% to 0% with no way to stop it once it begins, should that combo be removed?
I actually had a game like that, and the combo was nerfed out of existence after 3 months because the $30 000 dollar whales cried too hard. Thing is, the combo took many rounds to get started (enough rounds for a whale to kick your ass) and required 4 characters to pull off, problem was, whales were too dumb to use strategies that could kick ass, because they were so used to dropping their $1000 characters on noobs who had no idea how to counter them. (Thats how I got famous in that game, by trashing the whales using simple characters - problem was, if i didnt match vs whales, my whale countering lineup lost to average players not using whale characters)
So no, that combo shouldnt be removed, cos it wouldnt have been implemented if there was no counter to a player using it. It only gets removed when big $$$$ players cry because they dont want to use the counter.
So another question(s):
If you know the combo exists, and how the combo works, how the hell havent you thought of a way to counter it yet? -or is it that its just ''too hard'' to play ToS using strategic moves, instead of the ''randomly hit and hope'' method that you learnt in bronze.
Or is it youre one of those players - ''I could visit the jailor n1 as RM, but i wont ''In case theres a spy'' . You know the ones..... the ones that wont use a strat ''in case X role exists'' or wont target a specific player ''in case X role is on them''.... Or thinks the game is over when they die
dbpeanut wrote:
Now, I want you guys to try inputting on the actual idea of avoiding players, since that's something a lot of games implement successfully, why can't TOS?
The problem here is that ToS runs on a lobby by lobby basis. So adding a blacklist feature, would cause multiple lobbies to be created at once. Now if 10 people have blacklisted each other and theyre all trying to join the same lobby, you now have 10 lobbies for the one mode causing a huge wait for probably 8 of them.
Imagine trying to join a lobby when 80% of the players online have you blacklisted because you executed a sheriff n3 during your 8th game ever..... all of a sudden every lobby is empty and never fills....
Nothing he has brought up is new..... its all been discussed at legnth in other threads, and all of the solutions suggested in them cause other problems, so if youre happy to have a blacklist feature at the expense of +10-20 minute lobby wait, then suggest away
Okay, first off, care to share what exactly this game was? It sounds like some Gacha game, and those aren't exactly paragons of repute and respect, so it'd be nice to be clear on what you're talking about. I also counter that with Mortal Kombat 9 Kung Lao. Had an infinite, infinite got thrown out. You seem to be of a misunderstanding in believing that it's normal for infinites to be intentional. They're usually not. They're usually around because of an oversight in development, and seen as a problem to be corrected.
Two, because there
is no counter. If you're solo Godfather/Mafioso and you get jailed, game over. It's also way too safe on the Jailor's part because there's no Neutral Killing, there's probably not an Ambusher and even if there were it can't choose to attack anyone and is itself extremely unsafe since if there are two visitors or a Medium it's dead after it gets one or two attacks off, and the only way the Witch could hope to kill you to break it would be for there to be no less than two Vigilantes, one to kill the Doctor if there is one (nevermind that has to be a perfect shot), or one to go down with the Bodyguard, then another to actually get you. Your other remark is completely baseless because there's no "in case" about it, there is
100% going to be a Doctor or Bodyguard protecting the Jailor because there is a Town Protective slot and those are the only Town Protectives, and banking on them not healing the Jailor because they find the meta annoying or too predictable on their part is incredibly unreliable.
Three, it doesn't even
have to be a lobby. Ranked uses a queue, the rest of the game can just also use a queue. Have an in-game chat room to replace the lobby so that people can still talk outside of rounds, but use a queue for actual matching so that your proposed issue can't happen.
But anyway, as you've been told, the Jailor should just be nerfed. No jailing the same person twice in a row is among the easiest solutions because it would require little more than adding a "wasjailed" flag that starts at 0, flips to 1 if one is jailed, flips back to 0 when a night passes where they are not jailed, and while it is 1 they cannot be jailed, if this game is coded in a way that would make sense to me. Flat out taking away the Jailor's roleblock unless they execute would also terminate their ability to deadlock completely as well as making them no longer an objectively superior version of the Escort.
Speaking of, I don't remember if I've actually spoken on this, but I find it strange the way in which the Jailor is an objectively superior version of the Vigilante. It has more power, but less risk. What sense does that make? It'd make more sense to me (balance notwithstanding) if the Jailor had a Basic attack and the Vigilante had a Powerful attack, since that'd give the Jailor less for not dying if they misfire and the Vigilante more to compensate for the risk both in what happens if they misfire and being easier for a Witch to use. I'm not sure if doing that would be overkill if Jailor deadlocks were removed and some risk to revealing Day 1 were added (I still say make the Witch force the Jailor to execute by making it self-target, since that's the shortest path to a solution while there's a static Witch), but it's one of those things that's weird if you think about it too long.
Then again, the Jailor is BMG's Wesley Crusher, so of course it's just outright better than two other roles, and the developers simply do not check these forums so honestly, talking about any of this is completely useless. They don't care what anyone thinks about their game, so of course it's in a bad place.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.
I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.