VLDR Combat Outline

Virtue's Last Dangan Ronpa

VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:15 pm

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mepXhlZlW5wvl4JOY-ciyQ79c-4N9Tmh6fr0FhaJGZk/edit?usp=sharing

This doc contains a system I had in mind. The system is based around blood loss rather than hit points.

VIT can replace CON and WIL.

ACC can replace Dex

Stealth can replace stealth attacks, but the defender should defend with perception.

The document contains cases for first aid, determining hit location, the severity of the blow from grazing to devastating, and dealing with unconsciousness and clinging to life.

The doc allows you to comment.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:53 pm

Okay how do you convert damaging attacks that don't cause blood loss? I.e death by poison or crushing forces?
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:55 pm

Crushing forces usually cause internal bleeding. These are what the bruises you get if you get hit by a blunt object are caused by. This blood is still out of the circulatory system, but on the bright side isn't likely to get infected. (which the system doesn't account for.)

Blunt objects are also more likely to break bones than serrated edges, which will cause its own bleeding complications. For this reason, I average out the two for being roughly equivalent.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:03 pm

Their not the same amount of blood loss simply because your body naturaly puts pressure on the internal wounds to stim the bleeding, but its fine to hand wave that aspects for sake of convience sure. How is poison handled? It's own seperate statues affect with its own system to lead to death?
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:08 pm

TheNiceOne16 wrote:Their not the same amount of blood loss simply because your body naturaly puts pressure on the internal wounds to stim the bleeding, but its fine to hand wave that aspects for sake of convience sure. How is poison handled? It's own seperate statues affect with its own system to lead to death?


I personally lend it to CON or VIT saving throws against difficulty of the poison. You roll 5 times over a median period. If you get 3 successes, you survive the poison. If you get three failures, you die.

Willpower allows you to deal with symptoms and are rolled at the same time as the CON check. Under the VIT system they're the same roll, with successes allowing you to ignore symptoms.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:10 pm

Are you or your players distributing stats in this system? If its you then theirs no issues but if you leave it up to the players then you run into the issue of stat balance. For instance DEX is clearly better than STR. And WILL is clearly garbo compared to all other stats.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:15 pm

TheNiceOne16 wrote:Are you or your players distributing stats in this system? If its you then theirs no issues but if you leave it up to the players then you run into the issue of stat balance. For instance DEX is clearly better than STR. And WILL is clearly garbo compared to all other stats.


Well, I plan on making Ranged weapons rather rare, and all melee weapons revolve around Strength. Dumping Strength for dex works for avoiding blows, but you'll struggle in actually damaging anyone with a melee weapon. Thrown weapons should use Strength, IMO.

Willpower keeps you conscious and can buy you precious time to avoid death. Dumping will risk you losing conciousness mid fight if someone manages to hit your head. I will probably extend this to other high value areas as well to simulate shock. Additionally, (although I haven't elaborated on it yet), it allows you to reduce penaltys for wounds at higher blood loss levels.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:24 pm

Dex is still clearly better. Even if finding actual ranged weapons may be rare you can still make do with throwing weapons. This would allow your dex investment to both account for your attack damage and defence. WILL is an inferrior defence/mitigation stat in comparsion to either Luck or Con. Luck has the massive effect of determining the severity of hits and Con has the massive effect of determining base cloting which is huge in any system with multplication in it. I'd argue the following in stat rankings Dex>Luc>Con>STR>WIL.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:26 pm

Point taken. Moved thrown weapons to Strength. I will find other ways to use Willpower to increase frequency of its influence, thank you.


Didn't expect Luck to be one of the strongest stats.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:28 pm

Thats a good way of handling STR. I'd recommend you just combine CON and WILL into VIT.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:31 pm

I'll definitely consider doing so, but I would definitely have to find a replacement by splitting off other stats. ACC would be the best replacement by splitting off Strength and Dex's motor skills components.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby Arcthurus » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:33 pm

just to clarify whats like your reason to have a blood loss system over a ficticious hp one

i assume its like realism youre gunning for but then youre gonna need some changes on those effects due to bloodloss

like half of the table disappears because losing 30%-40% of your blood is enough for you to pass out unconcious to lack of oxygen plus losing 50% of your blood should be enough to kill you for the same reason


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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:38 pm

Arcthurus wrote:just to clarify whats like your reason to have a blood loss system over a ficticious hp one

i assume its like realism youre gunning for but then youre gonna need some changes on those effects due to bloodloss

like half of the table disappears because losing 30%-40% of your blood is enough for you to pass out unconcious to lack of oxygen plus losing 50% of your blood should be enough to kill you for the same reason


I agree that you definitely shouldn't be able to survive these cases in most circumstances. The Clinging to life and Resisting Unconsciousness tables were changed several times to help balance Willpower to make it more potent. I will probably revise these tomorrow by removing the bottom two segments and making surviving under 2500 ML neigh impossible. When I do so i'll also combine WIL and CON into VIT.

The goal is to approach realism somewhat while also allowing for some absurdity to happen. After all, it wouldn't be the first time someone lived who DEFINITELY shouldn't have been able to. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldn ... tions.html
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:42 pm

I actually completly forgot about CUN. Anyways I don't think you need 6 stats. I think STR/DEX/VIT/LUC/CUN is a fine system given you use it the way we specified. Question, does CON actually reduce damge? Because it doesn't seem to on the doc and if it doesn't then it doesn't cover durability.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:45 pm

TheNiceOne16 wrote:I actually completly forgot about CUN. Anyways I don't think you need 6 stats. I think STR/DEX/VIT/LUC/CUN is a fine system given you use it the way we specified. Question, does CON actually reduce damge? Because it doesn't seem to on the doc and if it doesn't then it doesn't cover durability.


CON reduces the damage you take over time by making you blood clot faster. As damage is more based upon blood loss (barring specific injuries to the brain which i'll deal with eventually), CON reduces bleeding more than anything. However, this is still quite important considering the difficulty of regaining blood in most games.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:50 pm

Thats is a useful application and totally valid, but that doesn't really do what con means. It's a recovery stat more than anything. I'm just worried naming it CON then making it not do CON things but instead RECOVERY things will confuse players.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:53 pm

TheNiceOne16 wrote:Thats is a useful application and totally valid, but that doesn't really do what con means. It's a recovery stat more than anything. I'm just worried naming it CON then making it not do CON things but instead RECOVERY things will confuse players.


That's a fair point. CON also affects dealing with bodily poisons, but I imagine most players will want CON so they take less damage. Having CON give additional blood to begin with (signifying larger body mass and stockiness) will increase durability, which will serve CON's purpose well enough, I think.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:56 pm

Lucks influence on hit location may be too high for its own good. I'll have to think about it.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:00 pm

Yeah I was thinking about having higher blood totals as a good buff for CON and LUck may be too strong but IDK it's probably good where its at. Sure its strong but if you make EVERY other stat strong then it balances out. The Only stat I'm worried about needing buffed if you combine WILL and CON into VIT is CUN but given if people dump CUN then CUN becomes stronger for those who use it, it sorta balances itself.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:22 pm

Okay the one glaring problem with this system is speed of use host side. Checking all the math is working out will take far to long if you do 1 in game minute to 1 real minute but even if you don't do that it will still bog down the game with host side caculations. You could mitigate this by using a google docs system where checking certain boxs and inputing number spits out the numbers you'll be working with. Thats the only way I can think this system would work without grinding everything to a halt onces people start bleeding and fighting.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:39 pm

TheNiceOne16 wrote:Okay the one glaring problem with this system is speed of use host side. Checking all the math is working out will take far to long if you do 1 in game minute to 1 real minute but even if you don't do that it will still bog down the game with host side caculations. You could mitigate this by using a google docs system where checking certain boxs and inputing number spits out the numbers you'll be working with. Thats the only way I can think this system would work without grinding everything to a halt onces people start bleeding and fighting.

I absolutely agree that the activity it demands on the host is too high which is why I was hesitant to add more uses for willpower. I'm currently brainstorming ways to simplify it or creating a google sheet calculator.

Edit: Wow thats much easier than I expected. Will provide soon^tm
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:47 pm

Using Vit also somewhat simplfies caculations host side. And also I thought using google sheets for caculations would be fairly trival, theirs likely more invntive ways to use it that could probs optimize the way you input things, but the bare bones of the caculations is easy.

In addition is cloting applied before or after each time you apply loss of blood for that minute?
Last edited by TheNiceOne16 on Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:51 pm

TheNiceOne16 wrote:Using Vit also somewhat simplfies caculations host side. And also I thought using google sheets for caculations would be fairly trival, theirs likely more invntive ways to use it that could probs optimizer the way you input things, but the bare bones of the caculations is easy.

In addition is cloting applied before or after each time you apply loss of blood for that minute?


After. It always has been in my thought process but I should definitely write that fact down. Thanks again.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:54 pm

Your welcome, I just brought it up because on high CON characters chip damage would basically be negated if it was applied before.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:02 pm

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I believe this calculator is correct. Feel free to make a copy through File > Make a copy.

Only issue is that Google sheets has a nasty habit of copying the formula rather than the results. If I find a solution i'll mention it.

At most a host needs to chance four values for dealing with the same character and 5 if they're dealing with a new one. However usually they'll only be changing the Blood Amount and Blood Loss.

Edit: CNTRL + SHIFT + V posts the results.
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