VLDR Combat Outline

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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:21 pm

It seems like using using this google sheet caculator you would have to manually take the end results of every in game minute and past it into the new starting point. So basically you have to maniually "Tick the Clock" for every player whos bleeding every minute. I also see you made 3 separate caculators instead of one comprehensive one. Still this is better than doing any of this by hand, but with the current google sheets caculator you'd still need substainal time to handle everyones blood loss. Prehaps trying combining all three caculators into one and have some type of box where you can do something to it like click it or put a number into to move the numbers a minute ahead. That would really speed things up. Especially if you had the buttonmove all players blood loss a minute ahead via having them all on the same page.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:23 pm

TheNiceOne16 wrote:It seems like using using this google sheet caculator you would have to manually take the end results of every in game minute and past it into the new starting point. So basically you have to maniually "Tick the Clock" for every player whos bleeding every minute. I also see you made 3 separate caculators instead of one comprehensive one. Still this is better than doing any of this by hand, but with the current google sheets caculator you'd still need substainal time to handle everyones blood loss. Prehaps trying combining all three caculators into one and have some type of box where you can do something to it like click it or put a number into to move the numbers a minute ahead. That would really speed things up. Especially if you had the buttonmove all players blood loss a minute ahead via having them all on the same page.


I'll look into more advanced scripting eventually to see if there's anyway I can cause in depth conditions, as well as automating the ticking of the clock. Even if I can show the next few turns concisely it will be a large time saver.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:26 pm

Coolio, in addition "First Aid Quality Reference:" is a little hard to understand what the left column is referring too.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:41 pm

I narrowed it down to one calculator. Working on displaying the next rows now.

Edit: Wasn't able to make a button that showed the next round but I got it to show you bleedout in addition to the calculation. That way you only need to put the clock forward once every 5 rounds, or when a new hit happens.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:23 pm

I think this level of speed could totally be workable in a game Polester. Could be faster, but this is acceptable.

Now lets talk about one shots and maxium death speed. In this system barring exoitc forms of death you can die from max blood in a minumum of 2 rounds period. Would you allow specific senarios to allow one shots? Two examples being snapping an unconious persons neck or puting a gun directly to someones head and pulling the trigger.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby Hawkwing425 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:56 pm

I would assume that the way to handle that would be to simply not resort to the system for that. IMO, host ought to have some sort of discretion for these things, if that's the right word.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:09 pm

TheNiceOne16 wrote:I think this level of speed could totally be workable in a game Polester. Could be faster, but this is acceptable.

Now lets talk about one shots and maxium death speed. In this system barring exoitc forms of death you can die from max blood in a minumum of 2 rounds period. Would you allow specific senarios to allow one shots? Two examples being snapping an unconious persons neck or puting a gun directly to someones head and pulling the trigger.


Right off the bat if you get pushed in front of a train or get caught in a considerable explosion, you die. I don't care how high your Vitality is, you are dead. Do not pass go.

As for things that are considerably more probable, getting knocked unconscious from a serious blow to the head is close enough to instant death. Going just off the base value of 400 ML a turn, even someone with very high CON/VIT isn't going to be able to clot in time in order to prevent death. You don't even need to follow up, the bleeding will usually take care of the target for you. On the off chance they recover, they're going to be on deaths door and easy pickings. If its a devastating blow, then yeah, they don't stand a chance. They'll be done for in 3 turns regardless of if you follow up.

Not to mention someone that's unconscious is basically a sitting duck. If you had a unconscious person and wanted to cut off their head, I would count them as dead. Even if you didn't manage to decapitate them they've lost more than enough blood.

As for getting shot in the head point blank while restrained, yeah, I can count you as dead. The only way I'd consider making them not dead is if there was EMT right next to you that could begin treatment immediately. Technically there's a chance the shooter doesn't technically hit the back of the brain so living is possible, but that's so rare that you'll know when you're in such a situation as a host. Not to mention that if you DID live that you'd be suffering brain damage so severe you can't participate meaningfully.

Snapping a neck would count as a called shot which I haven't elaborated on, and would require a considerable margin of success. If that happened, I would consider the target dead, especially because even by RAW you just dealt a blow to the vital neck/head.

Hawkwing425 wrote:I would assume that the way to handle that would be to simply not resort to the system for that. IMO, host ought to have some sort of discretion for these things, if that's the right word.


Exactly.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:24 pm

How do you treat nat 20's amd nat 1's within this sytem?
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:35 pm

Like any other roll, in most cases. The only exception to this in RAW I gave was staying conscious with <3000 ML of blood left. Bull checks tend to anger people when they happen, especially in close frequency to each other.

I'll do it if you're not contesting the action against another player, though. If you want to allow those to happen it fits in fine.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:41 pm

I like that. Are you going to make a standerdized list of debuffs for certain blood levels? You were talking about WIL naturally lessening these. Also If I tried to do weird things not listed under any of the stats I assume it would go under CUN? Like lockpicking, hacking, remembering things about the world off the top of my head or identifying injuries.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:43 pm

TheNiceOne16 wrote:I like that. Are you going to make a standerdized list of debuffs for certain blood levels? You were talking about WIL naturally lessening these. Also If I tried to do weird things not listed under any of the stats I assume it would go under CUN? Like lockpicking, hacking, remembering things about the world off the top of my head or identifying injuries.


Lockpicking is more of a skill than anything so i'd put it under cunning, though I can see why people would put it in Dex. Memory and hacking would be Cunning, and I know from experience that memory is important. Identifying injuries would be cunning too. However there's definitely unlisted things that belong in other categories.

As for standardized de-buffs, absolutely. I haven't figure out how I wanted to work those in though.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:50 pm

Honestly it wouldn't be out of place for every stat besides LUC to take a flat debuff. Like every 500 below 4500 you take -1 to all stats besides LUC. This would account for each point of CON increase or decreasing max blood by 100 so a -5 CON character would start at 4500 blood and any blood loss puts them at a debuff. This makes sense since a -5 CON character would have shit health.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:56 pm

TheNiceOne16 wrote:Honestly it wouldn't be out of place for every stat besides LUC to take a flat debuff. Like every 500 below 4500 you take -1 to all stats besides LUC. This would account for each point of CON increase or decreasing max blood by 100 so a -5 CON character would start at 4500 blood and any blood loss puts them at a debuff. This makes sense since a -5 CON character would have shit health.


Then again, blood loss is proportional.

Oh well. Need to sacrifice some things for game play. Probably not going to come up too often.

Anyway, LUC shouldn't be decreased but VIT shouldn't be either. Your blood clotting doesn't get worse as you lose blood iirc. In fact lower blood pressure tends to cause you to bleed slightly less, I think. Otherwise, i'd lower the point where penalties begin at 4100 and have penalties stack every 300. You need to lose about 17% of your blood to start noticing considerable performance drops.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:11 pm

So of your 5 stats STR/DEX/VIT/LUC/CUN only STR/DEX/CUN will be taking a penalty. The penalty is -1 which stacks every 300 ml of blood below 4100 starting at 4100 meaning characters can take -6 to those stats before they auto die. Can yours stats go below -5 in this system? Like say I naturally have -5 STR and I'm at 2550 ml of Blood it should be -11.

Also should VIT affecting max blood by + or - 100 ml per a point of VIT? Or since your combining CON and WILL should snip that mechanic?
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:14 pm

TheNiceOne16 wrote:So of your 5 stats STR/DEX/VIT/LUC/CUN only STR/DEX/CUN will be taking a penalty. The penalty is -1 which stacks every 300 ml of blood below 4100 starting at 4100 meaning characters can take -6 to those stats before they auto die. Can yours stats go below -5 in this system? Like say I naturally have -5 STR and I'm at 2550 ml of Blood it should be -11.

Also should VIT affecting max blood by + or - 100 ml per a point of VIT? Or since your combining CON and WILL should snip that mechanic?


Personally I decided to combine CON and WILL. If they were split I wouldn't cause them to get penalties either.

Edit: Resolved a bunch of comments that were addressed and had their issues rectified.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:29 pm

Can you give me some examples of LUC use besides determining where your hit? I know it might seem obvious but its best understand what you meant it to be used for.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:36 pm

TheNiceOne16 wrote:Can you give me some examples of LUC use besides determining where your hit? I know it might seem obvious but its best understand what you meant it to be used for.

Searching irregular locations where items may be left behind is an obvious use for LUC. If you have a NPC wandering around, you could use LUC to determine if they are present to the player. If you want to emphasize the state of weapons (Such as the degraded fourth hand firearms seen in Far Cry 2) you can use LUC to determine if a jam happens. If you lean more on the chaotic side you can apply a penalty to luck and roll that if they are being targeted while restrained.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:39 pm

Interesting. In addition how do different weapons effect base bleed damage? Is it like a percentage modifier? Case by case change? Is their like tiers of weapons?
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:43 pm

TheNiceOne16 wrote:Interesting. In addition how do different weapons effect base bleed damage? Is it like a percentage modifier? Case by case change? Is their like tiers of weapons?

Host discretion. I haven't formalized a system, but generally weapons like swords, axes, and other weapons like those will outperform knives and improvised weapons. I'll figure out how to deal with it soon. Right now the values are based upon knives and brass knuckles.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:53 pm

I think your system is a solid step in the right direction and even if people don't use it, the work you did codifying blood loss is useful for anyone wanting to more accurately model blood loss and death via it. Thanks for sharing Polyester. :)
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:03 am

TheNiceOne16 wrote:I think your system is a solid step in the right direction and even if people don't use it, the work you did codifying blood loss is useful for anyone wanting to more accurately model blood loss and death via it. Thanks for sharing Polyester. :)

Hey, even if it doesn't get used, if it brings positive change, it would have been worth it.

Whether or not it was a good idea to spend most of the day doing this instead of studying is another matter.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby LordofFail » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:01 am

While the speed may be fine with a calculator, it is a tad too complex for my liking.

I like keeping things simple on the hosting side when hosting (my master sheets are enough of a dumpster fire as it is) so I probably won’t be using this.

I’ll probably stick with a standard HP system and base wounds/injuries in damage taken and body part aimed for in the attack.

Also from what I see this doesn’t combat the big issue with combat which is that strategy and tactics have little meaning and combat is essentially wholly dependent on what you roll.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby TheNiceOne16 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:00 am

It doesn't combat it directly sure, but it does do it in indirect ways. Firstly, taking nat 1's and nat 20's effect out does help with reducing the feeling of arbitrariness. That said a system that instead strikes a balance between auto succeed and no effect may be prefered by some, not me though. Second with the direct and more intricate effects stats have on fighting mechanics plus with player choice in stat distributation that allows for more pre game preparations by chosing your build style. Both of these are simple mitigating factors true, but every bit helps.
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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby Arcthurus » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:53 pm

as a host i think for complexity i wouldnt use this either

but as a player its kinda interesting and worth a try to test it out


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Re: VLDR Combat Outline

Postby PolyesterHomes » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:39 pm

I'll definitely be using it.

Also poisons are a thing now so thats nice.

I'll be making a separate strategic section for more in depth combat, as well as versions that are separate from the blood based system. Poison already works separate from blood.

Some things Combat 2.0 will address is ideas like weapon reach (Swords vs knives), Called Shots, Special Maneuvers, and formalized turn order.

Patch Notes:

Poison added
Clinging to Life Nerfed
Con and WIL are replaced by VIT. It is now a 5 stat system.
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