Town of Salem Game Forums

Tailor (Mafia Deception)
A skilled sculptor that replicates the living

Abilities:
-At night, choose someone to make a mannequin of.
-When your target dies, your mannequin will take the place of that person. (This does not apply if they're lynched. This also affects the votes needed to lynch players.)
-You can only make 3 mannequins.

Attributes:
-Your mannequin will be discovered in the morning, 2 days after you replace their body.
-You will be notified if any of your targets are killed.
-The person your mannequin replaces will be role blocked from the dead chat until the mannequin is discovered. (The Medium thinks that player is alive, therefore is unable to channel their spirit.)
-If your target is on trial, they must be voted guilty to reveal they're a mannequin. (The town can still put others on trial.)
-If your target is on trial, everyone will be notified that they are a mannequin. (This does not waste a trial.)

Special Attributes/Immunities:
-Unique

Attack: None
Defense: None

Mechanics:
-When the mannequin is discovered, their attacker will be shown as the one to have killed them.
-If a dead Medium tries to have a seance with any of the Tailors stuffed targets, the Mediums ability will fail.

Investigative Results:
Investigator: Your target could be a Sheriff, Executioner, Werewolf, Poisoner, or Tailor.
Consigliere: Your target studies the town, they must be the Tailor.

Notifications:
Message to Tailors target (when they die):
-“You have died, but your body was stuffed.”
Message to Everyone (when the body is discovered):
-“<Player> has been discovered to be a mannequin!”

Changes
Spoiler: -Changed number of charges to 3. -10/7
-If a mannequin is put on trial, it is no longer revealed that they are a mannequin. -10/8
-If a mannequin is put on trial, they have to be voted guilty on to reveal they're a mannequin. -10/10

Credits:
Spoiler: alex1234321 for role changes/suggestions.
DragonClaw66 for role changes/suggestions.
Mystoc for role changes/suggestions.
dyaomaster for inspiration.

Nate88 wrote:So you're saying that people aren't able to tell the difference between a real person and a mannequin? Also, how would the mannequin be able to move around like a normal person?

That was for lore purposes...

this is a good role it has 2 things to it that you don't mention thoroughly

at first glance someone might think is too weak

you should mention an mannequin counts toward the voting majority so it's like the the mannequin is an alive person who isn't voting anyone they but they are really dead

like 6 people alive and still one mannequin on the field still need 4 votes for a trial to start instead of 3
(if it wasn't this you could tell by majority of voters needed that someone was a mannequin so it must be this way)

this also has the huge plus of delaying ret in rezzing key town roles like jailor and such gives you two days to track down ret and kill them before they can rez jailor


a lot people will mention you can do the talking test to test for the mannequin but that's intended way to counter it its secondary power is trick people that more people alive then they are

its primary power is the two points listed i listed above plus delaying deadies from giving medium info is pretty strong too


only thing i see potentially to strong is the uses of the ability might wanna change it from 4 to 3

otherwise very well thought out role

/support

EDIT:

i do think voting a mannequin should count as trial and force them to get hanged because otherwise people will just do talking test and hang people who don't speak and not even waste a trial, hanging the mannequin wouldn't cause it to go the night stage though just use a trial up,

i like this compromise because people will fear jester is faking being a mannequin and might not want to risk hanging the person

So you're saying that people aren't able to tell the difference between a real person and a mannequin? Also, how would the mannequin be able to move around like a normal person?

lore isn't that important could just as easily call role illusionist and make it a coven role and it creates perfect illusions of the people who die to fool town

focus on the role and the balance of if lore is a secondary concern

Edit: to make it lore friendly maybe the disguiser has a brother who's a tailor who dresses up mafia henchmen to exactly look like the people who died and impersonates them for two days. they don't wanna vote or speak cause it would be a dead giveaway since there voices wouldnt sound the same!

so suck it lore police!

dead body is hidden by the killers they then build the fake person to fool town and make them think the person is still alive

Nate88 wrote:

Mystoc wrote:

So you're saying that people aren't able to tell the difference between a real person and a mannequin? Also, how would the mannequin be able to move around like a normal person?

lore isn't that important could just as easily call role illusionist and make it a coven role and it creates perfect illusions of the people who die to fool town

focus on the role and the balance of if lore is a secondary concern

Edit: to make it lore friendly maybe the disguiser has a brother who's a tailor who dresses up mafia henchmen to exactly look like the people who died and impersonates them for two days. they don't wanna vote or speak cause it would be a dead giveaway since there voices wouldnt sound the same!

so suck it lore police!

So you're saying that this is still able to trick the town? They can't tell the difference between two people? And where does the dead body go?

Please review the actual role, rather than the lore. Thank you!

its like a dummy to fool town

and dont say a dummy cant move so it wouldnt work that lore worry about stuff once the role is balanced

The problem with this role is that the NK could waste a kill on a mannequinesomething and that's a pretty big nerf. 4 charges are too much IMO, you should change it. I think NKs should know if someone is a mannequinesomething or not.
/support

lemonader666 wrote:The problem with this role is that the NK could waste a kill on a mannequinesomething and that's a pretty big nerf. 4 charges are too much IMO, you should change it. I think NKs should know if someone is a mannequinesomething or not.
/support

town could waste kills also jailor jails one and exes it or vig shoots one it's not one sided

jailor is very likely to waste a exe on a dummy too since when they jail one the dummy won't talk or respond to him

town wasting kills on things other the NK is good for them too because their basic defense isn't revealed and jailor can actually kill NK

if NK knew they could tell town if their are about to get hanged to screw mafia iover doesn't sound fair to me

i agree though 4 charges is too much should be 3

lemonader666 wrote:The problem with this role is that the NK could waste a kill on a mannequinesomething and that's a pretty big nerf. 4 charges are too much IMO

This is similar to the Mafia and Serial Killer choosing the same target to kill, I don't think it is that bad, and it won't happen often. I have changed the number charges to 3.

Once it is discovered that there is a Tailor, then it won't really have much leverage in a competitive game since almost everybody will be talking except the stuffed player. Thus, it won't have much of an effect on the game, ad they can just get rid of the stuffed players by voting them for trial and going innocent. It won't have much effect in the endgame as it is very engaging and that you'll know there is a Tailor and in the early game there isn't much effect.

The only helpful thing is if people waste their visits trying to visit a stuffed player, but that is a swingy concept to rely on for balance. IT requires people to random visit, since they won't really have a reason to visit a quiet player, and it can range from no visits over and over, to 4 visits. It's what makes the Werewolf unbalanced, due to reliance on visits.

Gooose26 wrote:Once it is discovered that there is a Tailor, then it won't really have much leverage in a competitive game since almost everybody will be talking except the stuffed player. Thus, it won't have much of an effect on the game, ad they can just get rid of the stuffed players by voting them for trial and going innocent. It won't have much effect in the endgame as it is very engaging and that you'll know there is a Tailor and in the early game there isn't much effect.

The only helpful thing is if people waste their visits trying to visit a stuffed player, but that is a swingy concept to rely on for balance. IT requires people to random visit, since they won't really have a reason to visit a quiet player, and it can range from no visits over and over, to 4 visits. It's what makes the Werewolf unbalanced, due to reliance on visits.

Maybe I should add something so that the stuffed player will still affect the votes needed to lynch someone even after they're put on trial and found to be a dummy. Earlier on, having a 1 vote difference won't be very useful but is extremely useful late game.

Or, I can add Mystoc's idea, where the stuffed player is not revealed to be a mannequin when they're put on trial. This will not be as strong as it seems because the Jailor and Vigilante don't have any punishment for killing a stuffed townie.

Edit:
Another idea I had is that the stuffed player needs to be voted guilty on to reveal they're a dummy. (The town is still allowed to lynch another player with whatever voting time is left.)

I'm not a fan of it counting towards the total votes needed. Town's main weapon is voting, without it they cannot win. Giving evils a role to manipulate it like this is a poor way to buff them imo, it's just not skillful. Why trick Town into voting with you when you can just make them unable to vote in general?

HereThereEverywhere wrote:I'm not a fan of it counting towards the total votes needed. Town's main weapon is voting, without it they cannot win. Giving evils a role to manipulate it like this is a poor way to buff them imo, it's just not skillful. Why trick Town into voting with you when you can just make them unable to vote in general?

Remember, it does not stop the Town from voting, it only changes the amount of votes needed to lynch someone based on how many players are alive. It does not drastically affect the lynching process, and can only be done thrice.

Just save all three charges until lategame when Mafia is nearing majority. It doesn't stop Town from voting, but it lowers the numbers they have, so it could very easily stop them from voting.

HereThereEverywhere wrote:Just save all three charges until lategame when Mafia is nearing majority. It doesn't stop Town from voting, but it lowers the numbers they have, so it could very easily stop them from voting.

Should I change it so that you must wait a night before using your ability again? This will make them less likely to save all 3 charges for lategame.

That's getting rid of really it's only use though, isn't it? Why would you use it sooner? If someone goes from talking a lot to not responding when you address them, and then they're cleaned the next night, this role is probably revealed and you know when someone's going to be a dummy or not.

HereThereEverywhere wrote:That's getting rid of really it's only use though, isn't it?

Somewhat, but you can still gain a majority with only 1 use.

Why would you use it sooner?

If a Mafia member or Witch were accused randomly, you might want to use your ability to force the town to need one more vote.

If someone goes from talking a lot to not responding when you address them, and then they're cleaned the next night, this role is probably revealed and you know when someone's going to be a dummy or not.

Remember, many other Mafia roles reveal themselves when using their ability. The town might know that someone is stuffed, but they potentially can't do anything about it.

So then the only use of this role is really the voteblocking itself? Voteblocking is like blackmailing, "I coooould try to deceive you. This is a game of lying and deception. Ah, I'll just prevent you from sharing your leads or voting." It's not skill, it's brute force.

HereThereEverywhere wrote:So then the only use of this role is really the voteblocking itself?

This is similar to voteblocking. However, you can stop it as long as you can get the votes to put the dummy on trial.

So you can easily cancel out the voteblock. Then what? It's useless?

HereThereEverywhere wrote:So you can easily cancel out the voteblock. Then what? It's useless?

Thats what I am debating about. Which do you think is best?

ImposterK wrote:Maybe I should add something so that the stuffed player will still affect the votes needed to lynch someone even after they're put on trial and found to be a dummy. Earlier on, having a 1 vote difference won't be very useful but is extremely useful late game.

Or, I can add Mystoc's idea, where the stuffed player is not revealed to be a mannequin when they're put on trial. This will not be as strong as it seems because the Jailor and Vigilante don't have any punishment for killing a stuffed townie.

Edit:
Another idea I had is that the stuffed player needs to be voted guilty on to reveal they're a dummy. (The town is still allowed to lynch another player with whatever voting time is left.)

Mystoc's idea makes it a voteblocker with no other uses, as I've said. That's not a good idea. However, your idea at the bottom doesn't help. Town will just guilty non-talkers, since they're not blackmailed. That means afk or a dummy, and it can make afking a more severe thing to report.

HereThereEverywhere wrote:Mystoc's idea makes it a voteblocker with no other uses, as I've said. That's not a good idea. However, your idea at the bottom doesn't help. Town will just guilty non-talkers, since they're not blackmailed.

Do you have any ideas on how to fix it? Also, some players wait until the last second to vote a player since they don't want to waste that day. I'm not trying to use time as balance, but it can easily make a difference on whether this role has any affect.

To the contrary, waiting until the last second to vote is wasting the day. Voting as soon as possible, voting innocent, and getting another person up, then repeating this would be the most effective. As for ideas, I don't really have any.

HereThereEverywhere wrote:To the contrary, waiting until the last second to vote is wasting the day. Voting as soon as possible, voting innocent, and getting another person up, then repeating this would be the most effective. As for ideas, I don't really have any.

That possibly will happen if this role is added, but many people don't want to to vote if the town is random lynching. They will only vote right before the day is over.