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The Bartender (Neutral Evil) - Coven Update

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:01 am
by JamesD28
Name: Bartender

You are the owner of a bar who serves drinks to others.

Alignment: Neutral (Evil)

Day Ability: None.

Night Ability:
-Select a target at night to intoxicate them, affecting their abilities for the night/next day (see "Effect(s) on role" for details).
-Click on the Moon icon at the top of the screen to view the effects for each role (approximation in below spoiler:)
Spoiler: Image

Attributes:
-You have 5 drinks to serve.
-You will know the role of the person you intoxicate.
-Your target will not know they are intoxicated.

Special Attributes: Unique role, Roleblock immunity, Bite immunity.

Goal: Ensure the Town loses the game.

Win Conditions:
Wins with the Survivors
Wins with the Mafia
Wins with the Serial Killers
Wins with the Arsonists
Wins with the Witches
Wins with the Werewolves
Wins with the Vampires
Wins with the Bartenders
Must kill the Town

Investigative results:
Sheriff - Your target is not suspicious.
Sheriff (after intoxicating TI) - Your target is a Bartender!
Investigator - Your target is skilled at disrupting others. They are either an Escort, Transporter, Consort or Bartender.
Witchsigliere - Your target intoxicates others. They must be a Bartender!

Effect(s) on role:
Spoiler: Regular Roles:

Investigator - Roleblocked.
Lookout - Falls out of tree and alerts people. Will be killed if the person they watched was attacked.
Sheriff - Sheriff's target will show as not suspicious, regardless of their faction (unless checking a Bartender who has intoxicated a TI)
Spy - Will not see who Mafia visits, and will not be able to read whispers the next day.
Jailor - Cannot Jail a target the next day.
Vampire Hunter - Cannot stake Vampires, will be converted if bitten by a Vampire on the same night.
Veteran (not alerting) - No effect.
Veteran (on alert) - Stays on alert, kills Bartender and anyone who visits.
Vigilante (not shooting) - No effect.
Vigilante (shooting) - Loses courage - will not shoot their target if either them or their target is visited by someone else.
Bodyguard - If their target is attacked, they will kill the attacker and the person they were guarding.
Doctor - Can only heal from attacks by a Serial Killer. Doctor's target will still die from all other attacks.
Escort - Will roleblock their target and anyone who visits. Will die if they roleblock a Mafia Killing.
Mayor (unrevealed) - Will automatically reveal the next day.
Mayor (revealed) - Their vote will only count as 1 for the next day. Can be whispered to.
Medium - Will not be able to seance if they die the same night.
Retributionist - The player who is revived will be permanently intoxicated.
Transporter - Transportation will not go through - Targets against transported players will not be swapped.
Disguiser - Cannot disguise.
Forger - Forging doesn't go through (still retains ability usage)
Framer - Framer's target will still appear NS
Janitor - Janitor will only remove their target's last will - their role will still be shown.
Godfather - Cannot vote the next day, and loses contact with Mafia the next night.
Mafioso - Loses contact with Mafia chat the next night.
Blackmailer - Blackmails themself.
Consigliere - Gets an Investigator's result for their target, instead of an exact role.
Consort - Cannot roleblock a killing role (Vig, Jailor, SK etc.)
Amnesiac - Roleblocked.
Survivor - Loses a vest.
Vampire (Youngest) - Will be staked by a Vampire Hunter if they visit the same target.
Executioner - Loses immunity for the night.
Jester - Cannot haunt a guilty voter if they are lynched the next day.
Witch - See Coven Leader.
Arsonist - Loses courage - will not douse if either them or their target is visited by someone else.
Werewolf (staying home) - Immune to intoxication (attacks Bartender and all other visitors)
Werewolf (rampaging) - Will attack only attack their target, and not the visitors.
Serial Killer - Loses courage - will not kill if either them or their target is visited by someone else.
Bartender - No effect.

Coven Update Roles:

Hypnotist - The Hypnotist will get the same notification they chose for their target.
Ambusher - Ambusher will roleblock target instead of attacking them.
Hex Master - Unhexes all hexed players.
Poisoner - If a player is poisoned the same night the Poisoner is intoxicated, the attack will take 2 days to take effect.
Potion Master - Removes 1 of each Potion.
Medusa - Victim's role will still be shown.
Necromancer - Will be roleblocked if they reanimate a killing role.
Coven Leader - Target Coven Leader controls will instead be intoxicated.
Crusader - Crusader's attack will prioritize Town visitors over Mafia, Coven and Neutral visitors.
Tracker - Target knows they are being followed.
Trapper - Will deactivate the first trap the Trapper placed.
Psychic - Will not receive any information for the next 2 nights.
Guardian Angel - Roleblocked.
Pirate - Pirate will not plunder even if their attack is successful.
Plaguebearer/Pestilence - Spreading of the plague will be delayed by 1 day.
Mystery NK - Unknown.

Testing Grounds Roles:

Scientist - Loses sample from previous night (has to start over)
Watcher - Same effect as Lookout.
Electrician - Gets electrocuted if a charged player visits another charged player the same night.
Shadowalker - Lookouts will see both you and your target visiting.
Drug Dealer - See Hypnotist.
Necromancer - Roleblocked.
Politician - Target will remain in control of their vote.
Nightmarer - Will have a nightmare about the person they visited the same night.
Undertaker - Target is not buried even if they die.
Lost Spirit - The curse will only be lifted if they weren't killed.
Orphan - Cannot be saved (will become the role of their attacker even if they were saved)
Ghost - Visiting killers will instead attack the Ghost.
Rain Dancer - The Rain Dancer will be caught out in the rain, and will appear on the drenched list.
Auditor - Audited targets will only lose 1 ability charge.
Mystic - Cannot enchant.
Tax Collector - Loses the tax of the last person they visited (will be informed).
Coroner - Will only know how many people voted at all.
Paradoxist - Time is set to 11 o'clock.
Mortician - Will not get an additional bury or witness the killer if they visit someone who is killed.
Stalker - Attempted visits to the Stalker's target will be redirected to the Stalker.
Distributor - The Distributor will take the place of their 2nd target.
Interviewer - Both targets will appear to be equally trustworthy.
Musician - Loses a serenade.
Cannibal - Doesn't gain the abilities of the last person they ate.
Psychic - Will not be able to form a link for the next night.
Surgeon - Will not obtain the win conditions of the next person they heal.


Notifications:
-"You have decided to intoxicate [player name] tonight."
-"Your target was jailed so you could not intoxicate them!"
-(For Transporter): "Someone occupied your night. You were roleblocked!"

In-game abbreviations/slang:
-"Bartender": "Bar"/"Bart"
-"Intoxicate"/"Intoxicated": "Tox", "Intox"/"Toxed"

Achievements:
First Come, First Serve (20 MP) - Intoxicate someone.
Shot (20 MP) - Win your first game as a Bartender.
Pint (20 MP) - Win 5 games as a Bartender.
Bottle (40 MP) - Win 10 games as a Bartender.
Fish Bowl (100 MP) - Win 25 games as a Bartender.
This round's on me! (40 MP) - Intoxicate 5 people in one game.
Drinking on the Job (40 MP) - Intoxicate yourself.
Keeping 'em Sober (40 MP) - Win without intoxicating anyone.
Traffic Jam (100 MP) - Prevent 3 transportations in one game.
Gridlock (100 MP) - Prevent 50 transportations.

Additional Information:
-Intoxication only lasts one night.
-The Bartender does not need to "live" to see the Town lose. Therefore, the Bartender can win with evils, even if they were killed.
-To make things easier for the Bartender, effects for each role can be viewed in-game by clicking on a moon icon. This will open a scrollable list.
-After the Bartender intoxicates a Town Investigative, Sheriffs will be able to find the Bartender.
-After the Bartender intoxicates any Mafia member, the Godfather will show as a Mafia member to the Sheriff.
-The Bartender can only intoxicate the same player up to two times.

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:23 pm
by Spectre0
Ridiculously confusing, convoluted, and harms everyone despite having to win with town.

N o s u p p o r t

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:25 pm
by awa2001
You obviously spent a lot of time on this, but JESUS CHRIST MAN! I lost you when you had different effects for literally every single role. That's nuts. Not trying to come off as nasty here, but no one is gonna be able to keep track of all that during a game. It's just going to feel like random stuff is happening. Especially for the bartender, because they need to know the effects on every single role. There are some good ideas here, I like the thought of a neutral that tries to hinder the town like the Witch, but it needs to be WAY less complicated. This went overboard.

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:46 pm
by JamesD28
I've made a few tweaks to some of the roles which may have had an OP effect (E.g. Vigilante killing target and visitors).
Spectre0 wrote:harms everyone despite having to win with town.

The Bartender doesn't win with Town, they win with everyone except the Town (hence Neutral Evil).
awa2001 wrote:It's just going to feel like random stuff is happening. Especially for the bartender, because they need to know the effects on every single role.

Yeah, they will. And if the role did happen to be implemented for whatever reason, at first it would be difficult to understand and know what's happening to your target and the person they visit.
But there's only as many effects as there are roles. When a player first starts the game, they have 33 entirely different roles to learn, and they have no clue what each role does or how to play as it. The only way they can truly learn, is by playing as the roles. Over time, they learn each role and how to use it effectively. And once they've got enough experience, it gets to the point where they can be given a role and know what it is, what it does, and how to use it to support their faction without a second thought. The same applies to the Bartender; after playing as it enough, it will become second nature to pick a target, and know exactly what effect it will have.

It's still a work in progress tbh. If it's still too chaotic for its goal to kill the Town, then perhaps it would do better as a Neutral Chaos, with its personal, independent goal.
Any more feedback is very much appreciated.

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:51 pm
by SuperPacmaniaMaker
I don't like it because it's confirmable.
People can easily identify the Bartender because they have been informed that they get intoxicated.

It is also a Neutral Consigliere. That is not good. We already have the Witch doing that.
I do like some of the amusing effects they do, but it's kind of a lot of specifics to remember...but even then, the role is more devastating to Mafia than town. If a bartender visits evils, he basically ruins them. And there's nothing they can do about it.
It also should not be allowed to force a Mayor to reveal or force the Veteran to go on alert.

Roles that can confirm their presence should be avoided as much as possible because proving a role's existence will only take up claim space which makes things easier for the overpowered town faction to figure out.



My solutions:
-Make it to where, if the bartender visits an evil role, they get benefits. Not bad consequences. It makes sense to help your teammates, and not hurt them
-Take away the intoxication messages to avoid easy confirmation

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:29 pm
by JamesD28
SuperPacmaniaMaker wrote:My solutions:
-Make it to where, if the bartender visits an evil role, they get benefits. Not bad consequences. It makes sense to help your teammates, and not hurt them
-Take away the intoxication messages to avoid easy confirmation

Intoxication message is removed and effects have been reworked to favor evil roles. Thanks for the suggestions! :D

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:49 pm
by SuperPacmaniaMaker
JamesD28 wrote:
SuperPacmaniaMaker wrote:My solutions:
-Make it to where, if the bartender visits an evil role, they get benefits. Not bad consequences. It makes sense to help your teammates, and not hurt them
-Take away the intoxication messages to avoid easy confirmation

Intoxication message is removed and effects have been reworked to favor evil roles. Thanks for the suggestions! :D



Anytime.

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:42 am
by BS4125
I can see you've put 100% into this role idea and even though it is quite balanced it does require the Bartender and the target to know the list of effects that can happen when intoxicated and there isn't really a place where the results can be displayed

Also roles that buff/nerf a players ability usually isn't accepted and be weary about how much you are buffing/nerfing a target when you intoxicate them

Moreover how come evil roles preform better when intoxicated than when not? Doesn't make much sense

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:55 am
by JamesD28
BS4125 wrote:I can see you've put 100% into this role idea and even though it is quite balanced it does require the Bartender and the target to know the list of effects that can happen when intoxicated and there isn't really a place where the results can be displayed

Also roles that buff/nerf a players ability usually isn't accepted and be weary about how much you are buffing/nerfing a target when you intoxicate them

Moreover how come evil roles preform better when intoxicated than when not? Doesn't make much sense

I've added the ability to view the effect on roles by clicking on a Moon icon.

I agree that buffing/nerfing roles and knowing how much to do so can be tricky. I've based the strength of the buff/nerf around the general win rate of the faction.
- Town has very high win rates, and this role is against the Town, so the Town roles are nerfed so that the majority of them can still complete their action, but will either be given less information, or have a higher risk of dying. Some others (E.g. Mayor's auto-reveal) completely lose control of their action.
- Mafia has much lower win rates, but they still have wins every so often. Therefore, their roles are buffed to either give them more ways to deceive/damage the Town, or to give extra protection to the Mafia.
- Neutral Killings have even lower win rates, so their roles are buffed to make them simply more powerful.
-Neutral Benigns can side with both the Town and the evil factions, so their roles are generally unaffected.

As for why this happens, I don't really know. Maybe he serves Beer to the evils and Absinthe to the Town? :lol:

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:19 am
by dcnationdude
I think that it's a really good role. I suggest making it a Unique role so there isn't mayhem for the Town if there's two or more. I also suggest making this Neutral Chaos simply because of the amount of 'chaos' it can cause to the Town, especially to roles like the Transporter, but I think it should stick with the same objectives. It's a really powerful and fun role, so I think these tweaks should make it better.

Hope this helps.

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:32 am
by DarthaNyan
So bartender cannot win with WW... I suggest changing effect on WW to "On fullmoon WW will attack his target and everyone who visited his target and bartender (except bartender, dogs wont bite hand that feeds them)"

Arso... how about "while intoxicated, douses his target and everyone that visited his target"?

Consigliere's effect is disruptive for mafia: why would you want to confirm existence of consig to town and share your results to them? There are already a way to do that without outing yourself - with death notes.

Jester: "If he is lynched the day after being intoxicated he haunts ALL guilty voters".

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:43 am
by JamesD28
DarthaNyan wrote:So bartender cannot win with WW... I suggest changing effect on WW to "On fullmoon WW will attack his target and everyone who visited his target and bartender (except bartender, dogs wont bite hand that feeds them)"

Arso... how about "while intoxicated, douses his target and everyone that visited his target"?

Consigliere's effect is disruptive for mafia: why would you want to confirm existence of consig to town and share your results to them? There are already a way to do that without outing yourself - with death notes.

Jester: "If he is lynched the day after being intoxicated he haunts ALL guilty voters".

I've changed the Werewolf and Arsonist effects to what you suggested.
I've kept the Jester effect the same, because while haunting all guilty voters would be fun, sometimes all a Jester gets is one lucky guilty vote.

I agree that confirming the presence of a Consigliere would be disruptive for Mafia... but that's why the Consig can choose whether to reveal their target's role. It just depends on if they think outing their target (say, a Serial Killer) is worth revealing a Consig's presence.

Thanks for the ideas :D

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:53 am
by sh99er
For exe, how about their target is told to nk / mafia or the target is framed? i dunno just a idea. other than that, love it.

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:58 am
by Spectre0
JamesD28 wrote:I've made a few tweaks to some of the roles which may have had an OP effect (E.g. Vigilante killing target and visitors).
Spectre0 wrote:harms everyone despite having to win with town.

The Bartender doesn't win with Town, they win with everyone except the Town (hence Neutral Evil).


I mistyped, I meant that it must win with evils and yet harms them.

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:36 am
by JamesD28
Spectre0 wrote:
JamesD28 wrote:I've made a few tweaks to some of the roles which may have had an OP effect (E.g. Vigilante killing target and visitors).
Spectre0 wrote:harms everyone despite having to win with town.

The Bartender doesn't win with Town, they win with everyone except the Town (hence Neutral Evil).


I mistyped, I meant that it must win with evils and yet harms them.

Yeah... the evil role effects have been redone so the Bartender gives them a buff instead. :D

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:22 am
by DarthaNyan
JamesD28 wrote:I've kept the Jester effect the same, because while haunting all guilty voters would be fun, sometimes all a Jester gets is one lucky guilty vote.

Then make it a lingering grudge: haunt one guilty voter next night after lynching and haunt any living player on the 2nd night. Townies dont know about lingering effect until it happens.

- just a jest.

I've changed the Werewolf and Arsonist effects to what you suggested.

Intoxicated WW staying home shouldn't kill bartender either. Basically what i meant is WW's attack is same, but when intoxicated he kills everyone who visited bartender as well.

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:51 am
by JamesD28
Really like the Jester idea; added that in.

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:08 pm
by ItsVinylBoys
i like the idea but it seems like it affects the doc too much. NE shouldnt be able to directly kill someone.

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:34 am
by JamesD28
Didn't cross my mind that NE roles can't directly kill. Thanks for pointing it out, been changed. :)

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:04 am
by laucters
Ret can ' t revive cleaned target now.
So you have to change Janitor Buff.Because it does nothing different.Same with normal clean.
( Sorry if i am wrong )

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:15 am
by Daizy
This actually sounds like quite a fun role to have in the game, but maybe make it less role specific.

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:56 pm
by JamesD28
laucters wrote:Ret can ' t revive cleaned target now.
So you have to change Janitor Buff.Because it does nothing different.Same with normal clean.
( Sorry if i am wrong )

Looked it up on the Wiki, and yeah you were right. I've changed the Janitor's buff :D
Daizy wrote:This actually sounds like quite a fun role to have in the game, but maybe make it less role specific.

I agree that making it role specific makes it rather complex, but since it's a buffing/nerfing role, it only really works if its effect is specified to each role. :lol:

Really appreciate the feedback, keep it coming! :D

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:35 pm
by Nickster311
what if ret revives a intoxicated invest?
would the invest be roleblocked forever?

Re: The Bartender (Neutral Evil)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:28 pm
by JamesD28
Nickster311 wrote:what if ret revives a intoxicated invest?
would the invest be roleblocked forever?

Yeah... not ideal, but since the Invest is given 3 possible roles for their target anyway, there isn't really a specific nerf for it :(

Re:

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:52 am
by Jezz92
dcnationdude wrote:I think that it's a really good role. I suggest making it a Unique role so there isn't mayhem for the Town if there's two or more. I also suggest making this Neutral Chaos simply because of the amount of 'chaos' it can cause to the Town, especially to roles like the Transporter, but I think it should stick with the same objectives. It's a really powerful and fun role, so I think these tweaks should make it better.

Hope this helps.


I agree. This role should be unique and possibly neutral chaos, but neutral evil is fine too.

You have put a lot of thought into this role. It seems very confusing and would take some time to get used to all its perks and effects on other roles BUT it puts pressure on the town and can assist those dreaded NK roles.