Saboteur (Neutral Killing)

[datdownie]

You are a Saboteur

Alignment: Neutral (Killing)

Abilities:
- Choose one person to sabotage at night.

Attributes:
- You gain two explosives every night UNLESS you kill the night before.
- One explosive paralyzes a target for the night; Two explosives kills the target.
- Your explosives count will reset after using your action.
- Your attacks bypass night immunity, unless if against an alerted veteran.
- If you are role blocked, you will gain an additional charge.
- You are immune at night.

Goal:
Sabotage the Town in every way possible.

Investigator/Sheriff Results:
- Investigator: Your target is skilled in the art of distraction! They must be an Escort, Consort, or a Saboteur.
- Consigliere: Your target carries a set of explosives. They must be a Saboteur.
- Sheriff: Your target is not suspicious.

Roleblocking the SK:
- Roleblocking the SK will appear to the SK like this:
(since it is a smokescreen, it is impossible for the SK to kill you)
Someone roleblocked you, but you attacked them!
Your target is immune to your attack!

You must kill the Town
You must kill the Mafia
You must kill the Serial Killer
You must kill the Arsonist
You must kill the Werewolf
You must kill the Vampires
You may spare anyone who else

Win order:
-Arsonist still has top win priority, but Saboteur comes between Arso and SK.
Werewolf > Arsonist > Saboteur > Serial Killer > Mafia > Town

And there you go! Reply to me if any changes would be good...

NOTE: Several people got confused that this role is similar to Kirzie's idea, yet this role idea was made back in 2014. Please keep an open mind whenever reading this, as some things may look unbalanced. This idea was a concept idea before, so don't rant about how this looks like Kirzie's idea when it was originally my idea at first.
EDIT: Name was changed to make no confusion with the other Electrician.

[Dwern]

Seems a bit underpowered. Gotta keep those 2 charges ready as backup incase someone know u.

But I like the concept

[enderitem]

I don't think it is underpowered though. He can easily slip from everything by claiming survivor, if there is a space for it. After that, only the consigliere can find out his role. So, while mafia and town fight each other, he can wait all the way he wants and finish it off. Escaping both roleblock, sheriff and death is a good plus too. But he is too complicated to code if you ask me. It definitely needs a different interface for the game. Choosing between roleblock and kill would need some changes for the night phase. Here are my problems though:

1-What happens when you are alone with any other killing role? You can't kill them but you can roleblock them. Wouldn't that be a Stalemate?
2-What is it's goal? Why does it do what it does?
3-What would be the best strategy for this character in your opinion?

[leyva45]

Two questions, 1. Who do you win with?, 2. What is your goal?, also this sounds like a nice role

[Barlakopofai]

I like it, but, here are some tweeks I'd suggest.

1. It takes 3 charges to be able to kill, but killing only takes 2 charges.
2. He wins with the Witch.
3. Interaction with some characters causes him to gain charges, like the escort because of all the friction.
4. If he is attacked at night, he loses a charge and kills his attacker. If he doesn't have enough charges, he dies.
5. If he is roleblocked, it simply says he is immune to roleblocks, due to the escort recharging him.

That would make him more interesting to play and less of a slowed down Serial Killer

[plantdrago]

People are in desperate need of help... DO NONE OF YOU SEE HIS INVESTIGATION STATUS IS WRONG? ITS SURVIVOR, WITCH, OR ELECTRICIAN

[datdownie]

Changed some parts of the Electrician

[Ozyrox]

It actually should be Survivor, Witch, Werewolf or Electrician

[EdmundMcGaben]

Actually it seems a bit underpowered. If he is going to take two nights to kill someone, make him that can pass through night immunity. I didnt saw any updates releated to it, sorry if there is one.
Also you should list who he wins with, his goal says 'Electrocute the town at your will' but your winning condition says 'Arsonist > Electrician' so please point it out.

[transportowiec96]

Actually it seems a bit underpowered. If he is going to take two nights to kill someone, make him that can pass through night immunity.

My opinion is same! Make electrician kills pass through night immunity!

[datdownie]

Made a few tweaks to the role card as to it being up to date with some of the recent patches.

[Arpitr20]

there is already an electrician role with the same color, maybe change the name?

[datdownie]

there is already an electrician role with the same color, maybe change the name?

If you happen to notice, this idea was made waaaay back in 2014. Kirzie's idea was made in 2015 as a different variant of the role.

[Arpitr20]

one of you should change the name...

[datdownie]

It's not a different "variant" of the role, it's a completely different role with the same name and the same color.

Weeeellll... When I see your role, I see a similar feature with the charges, but instead those charges stick. My role is just a simplified version of your role without sticking a charge up someone's bum.

[datdownie]

one of you should change the name...

They do both appear in the master list. I'm not sure if I should considering this was an idea that was later reinvented by Kirzie nearly a year later.

[murat1996]

one of you should change the name...

They do both appear in the master list. I'm not sure if I should considering this was an idea that was later reinvented by Kirzie nearly a year later.

Uhh, as a reminder in the win order, you didn't add in the WW to that list.

[datdownie]

However, mine is much more popular, and is closer to being made a role in both FM and ToS than yours is.

Oh btw, the "this is a simplified Electrician" is invalid. Mine is an entirely different and more balanced concept. Yours is unreliable, has a boring mechanic, and a shoddy Investihater result.

You gain one charge per night, yet you need two to kill. This means you get ONE kill per TWO nights. This is an SK that takes two nights to kill, can be roleblocked, and ignores night immunity. The piercing immunity isn't that much of a buff, so this becomes a nerfed SK.

Barring the fact that the roleblocking thing is dumb and does nothing to help it win.

Sorry if I'm being harsh, but that's what the role is like. It's extremely underpowered, and every NK kicks this role's ass in terms of power and enjoyability, even Arsonist. It's a nice idea, but it hasn't been executed properly.

That. Was. Harsh.

More of a rant and all it seems. It was just an idea from one year ago (considering it was made on Jun. 14th, 2014 on the FM Idea, and yours being made on this forum the same day, one year forward), and it was popular back in the day. Remember closely at the FM Discussion where it was talked about. In my view of things, I'm happy your role was tested out. But I believe I deserve a part of the recognition because this was purely original: add a few mechanics and all and it's not too bad.

The roleblocking mechanic was made purely on a small thing to use (knowing that a single zap can just paralyze you and not kill you). Killing takes two night because it becomes a somewhat WW-esque tactician. While it may look like a bad thing to you, it could come in the most clutch situations.

Yes, my role might as well be underpowered, but I believe your role may as well be described as a well-detailed role that's overpowered for it's own well-being.

Firstly and probably obvious, you can stick a charge. Now what that entails is that it makes some kind of mysterious play. No one knows if there's an electrician until one person dies from the shock of visiting someone with another charge. One way to prevent that is to have a lookout check someone at night and ask if they received a notification or not (seeing the silent notification buff). Secondly, where did the two charges idea come from; was that originally there or did you just stuff it in there?

Finally I want to address the biggest question of your idea, HOW IN THE HELL ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO CODE ALL OF THAT? My role idea would take probably a few months or so to code, but yours? HOOO BOY with all of those mechanics...

Aaaaaand done. Man, still have to give props onto the debate. Not mad at you Kirzie; just take it as a friendly rant.

[LeScraf]

However, mine is much more popular, and is closer to being made a role in both FM and ToS than yours is.

Oh btw, the "this is a simplified Electrician" is invalid. Mine is an entirely different and more balanced concept. Yours is unreliable, has a boring mechanic, and a shoddy Investihater result.

You gain one charge per night, yet you need two to kill. This means you get ONE kill per TWO nights. This is an SK that takes two nights to kill, can be roleblocked, and ignores night immunity. The piercing immunity isn't that much of a buff, so this becomes a nerfed SK.

Barring the fact that the roleblocking thing is dumb and does nothing to help it win.

Sorry if I'm being harsh, but that's what the role is like. It's extremely underpowered, and every NK kicks this role's ass in terms of power and enjoyability, even Arsonist. It's a nice idea, but it hasn't been executed properly.

dude lol at least downie's was used in a game and survived past Day 2

[LeScraf]

Oh btw, the "this is a simplified Electrician" is invalid.
> No, it isn't.

Mine is an entirely different and more balanced concept.
> It's not different at all. You can literally kill the exact same way with your role and his role by putting 2 charges together. And yours isn't more balanced. In fact, yours is severely underpowered whilst Downie's can function on its own without relying on visits.

Yours is unreliable, has a boring mechanic, and a shoddy Investihater result.
> How is it unreliable compared to your visit bogus when you can LITERALLY point to a person, put 2 charges on them, and say "bang, dead"?
> Boring is a sense of opinion. I personally really enjoy the charge and roleblocking mechanic.
> While I agree with you on the Investigator result, it can still be changed.

You gain one charge per night, yet you need two to kill. This means you get ONE kill per TWO nights.
> I agree that one charge is too little and that 2 charges per night is sufficient.

The piercing immunity isn't that much of a buff, so this becomes a nerfed SK.
> With two charges a night, it becomes a HUGE buff that balances out the fact it can be roleblocked. And besides, it gains charges no matter what.

Barring the fact that the roleblocking thing is dumb and does nothing to help it win.
> Jesus. Do you know what an investigative role is? If you roleblock it, you can stop them from investigating you (which I'm pretty sure helps you win).

Downie, when I used your role in my game I gave it 2 charges a night to put it on par with other SKs. It can roleblock for 2 nights, gather 4 charges, then zap 2 people for 0.66 kills per night, which is fine considering the fact it roleblocks.

[datdownie]

Oh btw, the "this is a simplified Electrician" is invalid.
> No, it isn't.

Mine is an entirely different and more balanced concept.
> It's not different at all. You can literally kill the exact same way with your role and his role by putting 2 charges together. And yours isn't more balanced. In fact, yours is severely underpowered whilst Downie's can function on its own without relying on visits.

Yours is unreliable, has a boring mechanic, and a shoddy Investihater result.
> How is it unreliable compared to your visit bogus when you can LITERALLY point to a person, put 2 charges on them, and say "bang, dead"?
> Boring is a sense of opinion. I personally really enjoy the charge and roleblocking mechanic.
> While I agree with you on the Investigator result, it can still be changed.

You gain one charge per night, yet you need two to kill. This means you get ONE kill per TWO nights.
> I agree that one charge is too little and that 2 charges per night is sufficient.

The piercing immunity isn't that much of a buff, so this becomes a nerfed SK.
> With two charges a night, it becomes a HUGE buff that balances out the fact it can be roleblocked. And besides, it gains charges no matter what.

Barring the fact that the roleblocking thing is dumb and does nothing to help it win.
> Jesus. Do you know what an investigative role is? If you roleblock it, you can stop them from investigating you (which I'm pretty sure helps you win).

Downie, when I used your role in my game I gave it 2 charges a night to put it on par with other SKs. It can roleblock for 2 nights, gather 4 charges, then zap 2 people for 0.66 kills per night, which is fine considering the fact it roleblocks.

Consider it done, Scraf.

[datdownie]

Ok, let's imagine that we don't use the Roleblock, which actually is kind of useless. It's much easier to kill an Investigator that's threatening you than to Roleblock him.

It has one kill per night just like SK. This kill does, however, IGNORE NIGHT IMMUNITY.

Surely it does, but in such cases it may not like:
- Doctor heals you
- BG Protection
- Vet Alert
- etc.

[oliy]

So, a Serial Killer who can kill or roleblock twice? I don't like it.

[datdownie]

So, a Serial Killer who can kill or roleblock twice? I don't like it.

Well, not in that context.

Example:
(2) Two charges N1, use to RB on someone, goes to one. (1)
(3) Next night you have three, use it to kill someone, you have one left. (1)
(3) Then you have three... wait a sec.

Hmmm... I see a flaw in my role. Let's use this example instead.

Example Proposed:
(2) Two charges N1, use to RB on someone, goes to one. (1)
(3) Next night you have three, use it to kill someone, you have one left. (1)
(1) Then you result to have one next night, not getting any charges after a kill. You don't use anything. (1)
(3) You then regain three the next night as a result of resting.

I think that could balance out the kill/RB system. Any feedback?

[datdownie]

Changed the color of the name and a tweak to the first attribute.