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The Orphan, Neutral Benign *Needs a Suggestion*

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:40 pm
by Greenpandalover
Role Idea: The Orphan

Role Alignment: Neutral Benign

Unique? Yes (By demand)

Ability: Become the role of the person who attacked you [First]

Attributes:

-You are immune to the first time you are attacked.

-You will become the role that attacked you. (More info down below)

-If saved, you become the role of your savior.

-When taken in, it will be announced that the Orphan has been taken in.

Goal: Get taken in, and help your team win.

Wins with: What ever team takes you. (MUST be taken in.)
Notes:

-If visited by a Witch, you become a Witch.

-If saved by a Doctor or Bodyguard, you will become the exact role that saved you.

-If youre attacked by a Vampire, you become a Vampire like any other role.

-If visited by a Vampire Hunter, you become a Vampire Hunter. You follow the upgrading system of the VH as well (Becoming a Vigilante after all the vamps are dead.)

-If youre attacked by the Werewolf, you die (Werewolf dont care~)

-If youre executed by Jailor, you die (Jailor has no time for your sob story~)

-If attacked by Mafia, you become a Consigliere mafia.

-If attacked by Vigilante, Serial Killer, or Arsonist (When you get doused not ignited) you become that exact role.

-When attacked by anyone but Mafia or Vampire, you will not know the visitors name.

Conversion Chart:
Any Attacking Role-> Attackers role
Witched-> Witch
Witched + Attacked-> Attackers Role
Witched + Protected -> Witch
Non-Arso Attack + Doctor -> Doctor
Arsonist + Doctor-> Arso
Arsonist + Doctor + Attacked -> Arsonist
Attacked + Bodyguard -> Bodyguard
Attacked + Bodyguard + Attacked -> The role who made it through. (BG's protection chart of[Insert Source] Mafia->Sk->Arso->Vig-> Vamp Hunter?)
Doctor + Bodygaurd + Attacker -> Bodyguard
Attacked + Attacked (Douse counts)-> Dead
Execution by Jailor -> Dead
Werewolf -> Dead
Hanging -> Dead
Jester -> Dead
Investigative Role -> Nothing
Protective + No Saving -> Nothing
Support -> Nothing
Deception -> Nothing

If a killing role targets the Orphan(Excluding Vamp, V. Hunter, and Arso.)- "Instead of attacking your target, you took the Orphan under your wing."

If a Witch targets the Orphan- ""You noticed your target's potential of using magic..... You took the Orphan in"

If a Vampire targets the Orphan- "As you drank your target's blood, it tasted sweet and innocent...You've converted the Orphan!

If a Vampire Hunter targets the Orphan- "You taught an Orphan that Vampires were monsters and how to stop them."

If an Arsonist targets the Orphan- "Instead of dousing your target, you took the Orphan under your wing."


If a Doctor saves the Orphan- Your Targets Been Healed! & Youve taught the Orphan basic healing! (Needs work)

If a Bodyguard saves the Orphan- You've successfully saved your target! & The Orphan decided to follow in your footsteps! (Needs work)


When taken in the Orphan sees- You've been taken in.

When taken in, the town will see- The Orphan has found a home.

Investigator-Your target does not remember their parents! They are an Amnesiac or Orphan.
Orange's Results- Your target is a loner! They must be a Retributionist, Witch, V. Hunter, or Orphan.
Kirize12's Results- Your target is a loner. They must be a Survivor, Amnesiac, or an Orphan.
Consigliere- You're target has no relations, they are an Orphan!

Lore/Story

Spoiler: Sneaking into a room of darkness, the intruder broke into the house with ease. They crept into the bedroom where they found the owner of the house under a spell of slumber. Before they did anything they recognized the face of their would-be victim. It was the face of a man who'd lost his parents at the age of two and was forced to enter into the Orphanage; where everyday he saw the happy faces of the children around him being taken into their new home year after year until they forced him out at the age of eight-teen. He was one of the towns outcast due to his lack of intelligence and social behavior. "He'd be easy to manipulate." the intrude said to themselves. "I could always use an extra puppet." They proceeded to pull out the paper that would of been used as the deathnote, and wrote a short sentence onto it. Before leaving, the intruder left the note wrapped around the weapon they once held, and placed it onto the bed-side table. Quickly leaping into the dead of night, they left their newly fostered.
In the morning the Orphan rose, and found the note.
" I know this is a bit late, and Im sorry for that, but I want to be be your parent. I'll show you love unlike those people at Orphanage, and I won't abandon you. As a gift, I left you this little toy. ~Love, Your New Parent"
The Orphan held the weapon next to their heart and promised to himself that he'd do anything to make his newly found parent proud of him.


Achievements

Spoiler: 1 win- Adopted

5 wins- Found Home

10 wins- The Chosen One (Harry Potter reference) 10 coins

25 wins- Little Orphan Annie, 25 Coins

Get taken in by the Mafia- Al Capone Jr. 10 Coins

Get taken in by the Serial Killer- Butter Knife (Is open to change) 10 Coins

Get taken in by the Arsonist- Lit Match (Is also open to change), 10 Coins

Get taken in by the Vigilante- Justice League, 10 Coins

Get attacked by two killers at once- Family Feud, 5 or 10 Coins

Get attacked and then controlled by a witch-,New Life, New Problems, 25 coins

HomeAlone- Make it to the end without being taken in, 10 or 25 coins

Rebellion Attack your parent, 5 or 10 coins

Young Blood- Get converted into a Vampire

Pinocchio-Get taken in by a Vampire Hunter.


SUGGESTIONS
Spoiler: ~Page 1~
Consigliere result of"Your target has no relationships. He must be a Orphan".
Orphan promotes to Mafioso if theres not one there already.(Pg 4 & Pg 6 & Pg 7 also) (Accepted, than rejected)
Unique
Every role can take in the Orphan (Pg 3 & Pg 7 also)
Escort and Consort can take the Orphan in(Pg 10 also)
Doctor/BG can take the Orphan in (Pg 7 also)(Denied at first, added in later.)
Make Orphan reserved if mafia is full
If parent dies, Orphan dies.
~Page 2~
Orphan becomes Arso when doused.
Change the name(Pg 3 & Pg 8 also)
Have alerts to be taken in
~Page 3~
Orphan shouldnt become mafioso, instead something else.
Make a new role for when WW attacks the Orphan (Pg 8 also)
Goal to help your parent live to the end of the game
Special chat with the parent(Also Pg 10)
~Page 4~
Orphan becomes witch or survivor when attacked by the WW
~Page 5~
Orphan remains doused if taken in by arso
Orphans remembering is roleblockable.
~Page 6~
Orange's results of loner
~Page 7~
Uber Complex mafia conversions
Witch can take Orphan in
~Page 8~
~Page 9~
The phrases used for the Doctor/BG taking in
Annie for the Female Skin
Oliver Twist for Male Skin
~Page 10~
Suggestion wall

~POLL RESULTS~
#1 Spoiler: Image
#2 Spoiler: Image
#3 Spoiler: Image
#4 Spoiler: Image

~Credits to Contributions~
Spoiler: Nohbudy- Consig results
Hurricat- Suggested it to be Unique
Dota2reporter- "New Job, New Problems" Achievement maker
Kirize12- Pointed out a flaw in the Old Orphan's mafia functions & "Young Blood" achievement & Vampire & V. Hunter Conversion announcement.
SkylerFarrier- Suggested the "Rebellion" achievement.
theo07- First to suggest Orphan becomes a set mafia role if attacked by mafia.
VentureCaptured- First to point out missing roles in the role's functions (V. Hunter)
ChubbyMooshroom9- Suggested the witch taking in the Orphan.

Without them, the role wouldnt be what it is today. <3

Skins
Male
Spoiler: Oliver Twist
WIP

Female
Spoiler: Orphan Annie
WIP

SO PLEASE LEAVE FEEDBACK!

Negative or Positive, as long as its beneficial or helpful (So dont post just like "I like this role." or "I hate this role." a reason would be nice for both of those :D)

If you have a suggestion (That hasnt been suggested) I would be happy to read them <3

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:04 pm
by Nohbudy
Some comments I got:
Why would the Orphan die from being visited by multiple groups? Instead, why not force the people who meet to attack each other (i.e. Vigilante v.s. Mafioso)?

For Consigliere, you could say "Your target has no relationships. He must be a Orphan". Best I could think of...

What role would he become if the Mafia found him? Mafioso and Godfather are unique, so all I can suggest is: If found by a Godfather with no Mafioso, he becomes Mafioso. If a Mafioso finds him, the Mafioso becomes GF and the Orphan takes his spot.

1 win = Adopted / 5 wins = New Parents

What happens when you're jailed and executed? Is that just like a WW attack, where the Orphan dies?

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:15 pm
by Sircrow56
how about unless there is mafioso orphan becomes and if there is no gf let the mafioso become letting orphan become mafioso

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:57 pm
by Greenpandalover
Nohbudy wrote:Some comments I got:
1.) Why would the Orphan die from being visited by multiple groups? Instead, why not force the people who meet to attack each other (i.e. Vigilante v.s. Mafioso)?

2.) For Consigliere, you could say "Your target has no relationships. He must be a Orphan". Best I could think of...

3.)What role would he become if the Mafia found him? Mafioso and Godfather are unique, so all I can suggest is: If found by a Godfather with no Mafioso, he becomes Mafioso. If a Mafioso finds him, the Mafioso becomes GF and the Orphan takes his spot.

4.) 1 win = Adopted / 5 wins = New Parents

5.)What happens when you're jailed and executed? Is that just like a WW attack, where the Orphan dies?


Answers
Spoiler: 1.) I think making them die from multiple attackers would balance it out, so if the orphan is trying to get killed, they have to watch how many want to kill them.

2.) Good Idea, thanks!

3.) I was thinking just having them turn into a random mafia, but I like your idea on how they turn into mafioso if attacked by GF.

4.) I like the first one, the second one Idk.

5.) If executed by jailor they die, like everyother role. Jailor dont care for your sob story~


Sircrow56 wrote:how about unless there is mafioso orphan becomes and if there is no gf let the mafioso become letting orphan become mafioso


Promoting the mafioso to GF because of the orphan taking their spot seems a bit OP to my liking, but it isnt a bad idea.

Thanks for the feedback guys :D!

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:16 am
by doyouknowanah
I like it! :D

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:46 am
by iEsdeath
Wow. This is actually a pretty good role. I'd love to play as this and see it in the future of ToS! :D

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:57 am
by Hurricat
This is interesting... it would allow killing roles to not only "recruit" new faction members, but also to know the exact identity of the duplicate role to increase their win chances further. I like it, but I feel like it should be a unique role as it could cause a lot balance issues if there were multiples.

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:33 pm
by pretzellover33
Hooboy

2 Arsonists... 2 Serial Killers... Who know each other...
That's frightening.

I think it would be too overpowered. They can coordinate their attacks and decimate the whole town.

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:08 pm
by Greenpandalover
Just answering peoples post :D

iEsdeath wrote:Wow. This is actually a pretty good role. I'd love to play as this and see it in the future of ToS! :D
doyouknowanah wrote:I like it! :D

Spoiler: Thanks :D

Hurricat wrote:This is interesting... it would allow killing roles to not only "recruit" new faction members, but also to know the exact identity of the duplicate role to increase their win chances further. I like it, but I feel like it should be a unique role as it could cause a lot balance issues if there were multiples.

Spoiler: I thought of it as a way to help an evil side have a higher chance of winning.
About the uniqueness, I think I'll make it unique. Idk when I made this I was like thinking "What if there was a gamemode with 1 SK vs, 1 Arsonist and the rest were Orphans."

pretzellover33 wrote:Hooboy
2 Arsonists... 2 Serial Killers... Who know each other...
That's frightening.
I think it would be too overpowered. They can coordinate their attacks and decimate the whole town.

Spoiler: Well the catch is the Orphan doesnt know who attacked them, just their role.
About it being to overpowered, its the same as having to SK's finding eachother in a game, or when an Arso findout there is another Arso.

Lizzie0 wrote:Thats the whole point of the role and to be honest they wont be able to coordinate their attacks in case of spy.

Spoiler: I thought of this role as being a support to a killing, so more chaos in a way.

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:18 pm
by OzyOzers
I like this more than any other suggested roles so far. First time in human history being an orphan would be fun. :D

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:34 pm
by Kiyosen
When I saw this role, I instantly though of Jtgop's Fearful role...especially this part:
Jtgop wrote:The Consort reminds you of your mother
The escort reminds you of your mother

Motherly figures like children, so why not make them able to take them in? (lol, this is not really a suggestion, unless you want to treat it that way. That thought just suddenly came up when I saw the name "Orphan".)

Also, I like the Investigator's results going with the Amnesiac because both of them act the same way(they both actually choose a side).

Overall, the role seems interesting and brings about new strategies for killing AND investigative(depending on which investigation result you choose) roles.

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:55 pm
by Greenpandalover
OzyOzers wrote:I like this more than any other suggested roles so far. First time in human history being an orphan would be fun. :D


Thank you for your feedback, and for making me laugh with that :lol:

Kiyosen wrote:When I saw this role, I instantly though of Jtgop's Fearful role...especially this part:
Jtgop wrote:The Consort reminds you of your mother
The escort reminds you of your mother

Motherly figures like children, so why not make them able to take them in? (lol, this is not really a suggestion, unless you want to treat it that way. That thought just suddenly came up when I saw the name "Orphan".)

Also, I like the Investigator's results going with the Amnesiac because both of them act the same way(they both actually choose a side).

Overall, the role seems interesting and brings about new strategies for killing AND investigative(depending on which investigation result you choose) roles.


Ive always wondered if saying a escort reminds you of your mother is like a yo mama joke (Since people consider the escort role as sl*tty) or calling her beautiful,

Yea I put it with the amnesiac because the amnesiac seemed lonely in the investigators notes, and because they are similar.

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:53 pm
by Baconinja
If you start letting non-killing roles take the orphan in, why not let any role who visits take them in? (besides jailor) Town gets the short end of the stick with killing roles because usually it's a 50/50 for vigilante, but mafia and neutral killing always exist. Admittedly, town would almost always get the orphan, but 2 serial killers are OP if it happens.

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:00 pm
by OzyOzers
Baconinja wrote:If you start letting non-killing roles take the orphan in, why not let any role who visits take them in? (besides jailor) Town gets the short end of the stick with killing roles because usually it's a 50/50 for vigilante, but mafia and neutral killing always exist. Admittedly, town would almost always get the orphan, but 2 serial killers are OP if it happens.

Agreed, every non-unique role who visits orphan should take him under the wing.

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:10 pm
by AsylumShaco
I like this role aswell. But why only killing roles? Shouldn´t town have more chance to grab the Orphan other than having a trigger happy vigilante shot at him?
Perhaps Escort, BG or Doctor would be able to take him in aswell. (Not all 3 but maybe 1).
And yes he needs to be Unique. Since the one who take him in knows who he is but not the other way around it´s not that much different from when evil roles normally find out their allies. (Also transporter/witch can mess things up too!)
That also means the Orphan might accidently get his ''parent'' hanged during day if the SK/Arso wont tell him who they are.

Mafia is another story since he will be added in their list. Would be kinda OP in all any mode with 6 mafias and they find the Orphan right away. Maybe if the mafia team is full he get to be reserve and can´t do anything/vote until 1 maffia is dead. Just to avoid getting over the max 6 team.

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:23 pm
by Greenpandalover
AsylumShaco wrote:I like this role aswell. But why only killing roles? 1.) Shouldn´t town have more chance to grab the Orphan other than having a trigger happy vigilante shot at him?
2.)Perhaps Escort, BG or Doctor would be able to take him in aswell. (Not all 3 but maybe 1).
3.)And yes he needs to be Unique.
4.)Since the one who take him in knows who he is but not the other way around it´s not that much different from when evil roles normally find out their allies. (Also transporter/witch can mess things up too!)
5.)That also means the Orphan might accidentally get his ''parent'' hanged during day if the SK/Arso wont tell him who they are.

6.)Mafia is another story since he will be added in their list. Would be kinda OP in all any mode with 6 mafias and they find the Orphan right away. Maybe if the mafia team is full he get to be reserve and can´t do anything/vote until 1 maffia is dead. Just to avoid getting over the max 6 team.


1.) No, town is too OP according to Ranked statistics.

2.) ^

3.) He already is.

4.) This would be some of the fun of it.

5.) Kinda like the witch, or as I said before, their own teammate (SK and Arso), also

6.) Thanks for pointing that out! I didnt realize that. Hm well I dont know how to edit it because having the Orphan wait to be mafia wouldnt be fun, and an extra mafia wouldnt be fun either.....

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:33 pm
by OzyOzers
Maybe to make Orphan a bit weaker. Orphan dies if their parent die. Like vig shoothimself of feeling guilty. So it motivates orphan to do everything he can to not let his parent die.

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:17 pm
by Greenpandalover
OzyOzers wrote:Maybe to make Orphan a bit weaker. Orphan dies if their parent die. Like vig shoothimself of feeling guilty. So it motivates orphan to do everything he can to not let his parent die.


I like the idea, but if that would only work if the Orphan knew who their "Helper" is. And if they knew who the helper was the Orphan would make the game alot easier because they now know who not to attack/vote/frame.

With the Orphan not knowing who helped them, they would be more prone to attack/lynch their helper on accident.

Also, if they died after their parents did, that doesnt really help out who took them in. Like if the helper is hung, the Orphan has a chance to help their parent win. Like an avenging.

*Edit* Also, why would an Orphan suicide over the death of their second parent.

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:09 pm
by agigabyte
I say Escort (Realizes they are family-less and rather than role blocking takes them in as a sort of Aunt figure and they become random town[I always Imagine escort as being in mid twenties]), Doc (Has a small bit of history of psychiatry and takes them in as an apprentice with 3 heals), and Consort (Realizes that they lack family and rather than role blocking they take them in as a sort of sisterly figure and they would become random maf) and if Exe gets them as target they are notified of the person being an orphan and changes targets.

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:37 am
by OzyOzers
Orphan should know who their parents is. It would make sense, if the parent from that moment can gain benefit from Orphan. And if Orphan dies with parent, it would motivate Orphan to help parent with 100%. Like exe wants to lynch someone, Orphan must not let someone die.

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:15 am
by AsylumShaco
1.) No, town is too OP according to Ranked statistics.

2.) ^

3.) He already is.

4.) This would be some of the fun of it.

5.) Kinda like the witch, or as I said before, their own teammate (SK and Arso), also

6.) Thanks for pointing that out! I didnt realize that. Hm well I dont know how to edit it because having the Orphan wait to be mafia wouldnt be fun, and an extra mafia wouldnt be fun either.....



Well no one said anything about adding him to Ranked/Normal games. He would be fun for All Any and Costum. Some roles doesn´t exist in Normal/Ranked mode and that is fine. I agree town is a bit OP in Normal and Ranked atm so i usualy play All Any since it´s more fun and more of a guessing game. Alot easier to lie and trick without getting cought:)

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:47 am
by Kiyosen
AsylumShaco wrote:Well no one said anything about adding him to Ranked/Normal games. He would be fun for All Any and Costum. Some roles doesn´t exist in Normal/Ranked mode and that is fine. I agree town is a bit OP in Normal and Ranked atm so i usualy play All Any since it´s more fun and more of a guessing game. Alot easier to lie and trick without getting cought:)

All roles have the potential to exist in Ranked. Just saying.

Different people have different opinions so accessibility to a role(besides Classic) should not be limited.

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:37 pm
by Greenpandalover
OzyOzers wrote:Orphan should know who their parents is. It would make sense, if the parent from that moment can gain benefit from Orphan. And if Orphan dies with parent, it would motivate Orphan to help parent with 100%. Like exe wants to lynch someone, Orphan must not let someone die.

Answer: Spoiler: Like if the helper is hung, the Orphan has a chance to help their parent win, like advenging them. If the Orphan died with the parent, there would be no use for the Orphan really. Heres why I dont like this idea, GF turns Orphan into a mafioso, next night GF is executed. From what you said, the new mafioso should be killed because the GF was.
And again, why would an Orphan suicide over the death of their second parent.

agigabyte wrote:I say Escort (Realizes they are family-less and rather than role blocking takes them in as a sort of Aunt figure and they become random town[I always Imagine escort as being in mid twenties]), Doc (Has a small bit of history of psychiatry and takes them in as an apprentice with 3 heals), and Consort (Realizes that they lack family and rather than role blocking they take them in as a sort of sisterly figure and they would become random maf) and if Exe gets them as target they are notified of the person being an orphan and changes targets.

Answer: Spoiler: I wouldnt say doctor because (In the lore) the Orphan wasnt educated enough to get a job. I added that into the lore because that would cover why they couldnt become most of the town roles, other than the fact that if they did, the Orphan would end up being town more than anything thing else.
For the escort/consort, I really dont see fitting in with the Lore and other roles that the Orphan can become.

OzyOzers wrote:Orphan should know who their parents is. It would make sense, if the parent from that moment can gain benefit from Orphan. And if Orphan dies with parent, it would motivate Orphan to help parent with 100%. Like exe wants to lynch someone, Orphan must not let someone die.

Answer: Spoiler: A reason (Not the main one, but one reason) is because of game-throwers, what if the Orphan wanted to become a mafia instead of an SK. The Orphan could just say, "Blah Blah is the SK."
Or if the Orphan is in a SkypeCall with someone. "I got turned into the SK, ugh." "So whos the real SK?" "Its Bill, I dont like the SK role so why try."
This and because if the Orphan knew who took them in, like I said before, would increase a Neutral Killings chance of winning highly. Like as if there was an Arso who doused the Orphan, the Oprhan would know who not to douse.
This could be a bonus to the Orphan compared to amnesiac who becomes an Arso while theirs another Arso in game. I see the feature as not-needed.

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:08 pm
by OzyOzers
About last comment with game-throwers and skypers. That's against the rules and is bannable with every role. I can be mafioso and tell everyone who is GF, it's the same thing.

Re: The Orphan, Neutral Benign

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:34 pm
by Greenpandalover
OzyOzers wrote:About last comment with game-throwers and skypers. That's against the rules and is bannable with every role. I can be mafioso and tell everyone who is GF, it's the same thing.


I know thats bannable....

But I've seen amnesiacs who became mafia and sold them out so town could win,

Ive seen witches kill mafia with mafia and help town win,

So letting the Orphan know who the SK/Arso is (Some of the few roles that cant get effected by game throwers on their team) could sell out people if they join a neutral killing team instead of a wanted mafia team.