TG episode XIII | Coven Wins

Test roles that have been suggested in simulated gameplay.

Which rolelist do we use?

Poll ended at Sat Apr 02, 2022 6:58 pm

Coven rank
1
7%
Coven rank 2.0
7
47%
Town vs mafia vs coven
1
7%
Town vs evils
6
40%
 
Total votes : 15

Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Tue Apr 12, 2022 9:03 am

After the townies end up procesing what just happened, it is too late now, they cannot do anything for this day, they go home knowing they are probably doomed

Night 3 has started


The coven now posseses the necronomicon

Day 4 has started
Last edited by syjfwbaobfwl on Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:23 pm

The last few townies could do nothing last night

Ezra was found dead, they had a big cut all over their body

Ezra's role was necromancer

Death note:
They are known to be an evildoer


Madbombercat was also killed, he had a big stab wound on his chest
Madbombercat was killed by a serial killer, their role was jailor

Last will:
Will:
_Rokk - Jailor
N1 - Brilliand (TK)
N2 - Vampire Acolyte (Executing)
N3 - Ezra (Executing)

Solve List:
Jailor - Me
TI - Endertoad (Tracker)
TI - Super (Invest)
TP - Axe (Trapper)
TK - Brilliand (Veteran)
RT - Fwogcarf (LO, according to Ezra)
RT - Dawn (Sheriff)
RT - alex (Judge)
RT - Descender (Bouncer)

CL - Mr60Gold
RC - Sal/alienxotic (Potion Master)
RC - Ezra (Necromancer)
DUSA - mighty

RN - Vampire Acolyte (Serial Killer)
RN - Sal/alienxotic (Servant: Coven Master)

I ended up jailing Ezra as an impulsive decision. The lynch hapened during the 5 minutes in class, and I had a theory where I jail Ezra, Descender lied about their role and was Crusader, and then Descender killed CL. I then realized later that CL gets defense. According to syj and Ezra this play doesn't matter, and town lost regardless, so I guess it's fine.

Town got unlucky with coven sided servant. Town also got unlucky that all 3 of the silent people were coven, so we didn't have any of their chats to go off of.

Hopefully coven throws and walks into Brilliand and town still has a chance, but if I'm dead town probably loses.

Forum Mafia is confusing, but it is fun! I'll definitely join another if one is ever created.

GG everyone.


Jaiden body was very pale, as if he had ran out of life force, she also had been shot several times
Jaiden was killed by a coven leader, she was also killed by a veteran, her role was bouncer
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby Brilliand » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:27 pm

Hang on... if the Necromancer was executed in jail, how was the Jailor killed by a serial killer?
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby Brilliand » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:28 pm

Not that it matters; 1 Town dead and 1 Coven dead still leaves the Coven with majority.
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby SuperGDPWYL » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:38 pm

I think the Servant's employer was Necromancer
I exist
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby SuperGDPWYL » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:39 pm

CL - Mr60Gold
RC - alienxotic (Potion Master)
RC - Ezra (Necromancer)
DUSA - mighty
RN - alien (Servant for Necromancer)

Game solved a little too late.
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby SuperGDPWYL » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:40 pm

Made a mistake, Sal was the servant
I exist
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby MR60G0LD » Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:46 pm

I will be fully honest that I was shocked that I didn't get lynched last day, I was entirely ready to get lynched considering it was just the safest and logical thing to do (Also I am regarded as Coven Leader so I doubt it is throwing if I just come out and say it, after all i even claimed bouncer and bouncer is dead so me denying my role is pretty pointless at this point)

Either way sorry for chatting so little, on the first day i had work and on the 2nd and 3rd day I just deduced that being quiet is the safest bet for me, hoping the attention would be dragged onto someone else.

Regardless I am pretty sure we can all figure out how this will go now, so lets just all enjoy the ride
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby Salocin481 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:23 pm

SuperGDPWYL wrote:Made a mistake, Sal was the servant


Yep, hence the Spy claim. I was really hoping you'd check me Super ;P There's no Coven in the Spy result
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby Salocin481 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:24 pm

/vote Brilliand.

Also Brill did you alert the night you were Witched?
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:33 pm

The last 2 townies have conceded

Coven Wins


Ok now its time for comments from the host


First of all: very sorry for everyone for the mistakes I made, specially for dawn and mighty since it took me much longer than normal to send them their night messages cause I didnt make sure I sent them correctly

I am also very sorry for the coven because this semi confirmed dawn as a townie, when they could have been lynched if they played their cards correctly

Now about modcomms and angleshooting, I know that I didnt make it clear in the rules but to be honest I though it was common sense
This is my fault for changing how a role works and not making it clear in the rules
It is also Alex's fault for doing something which was pretty obvius that could not be done

This went pretty badly on d3 with all of these, I forgot to mention proxy votes were allowed, so ezra proxy voting for all the coven came out of a sudden and I understand if you feel angry about it (but lets be honest, town was going to lynch alex if he didnt angleshoot), so once again; very sorry for not making the rules clear enough for everyone


Now, putting all my errors and other problems aside
Commentary about the match itself

Coven did totally deserve the win, alex was just overly aggresive and deviating the lynch from someone who was basically confirmed evil, not only it got other townies to sus of him but also got a townie lynched, jaiden and alex were also against each other (which is understandabe, alex was acting like a very bad jester so jaiden clearly didnt trust him)

Now about the roles

I think bouncer is fine, although we didnt get to see much about it, its confirmability and extra utility is compensed by the fact that when it comes to attacks, it dies without doing anything to the attacker (which is fine)

Servant is too strong to be in balanced modes, for chaos modes it might be good but it swings the game too much into whoever has the servant, if Sal target was a townie then town would have won even with very big mistakes
I think it kinda causes the same problem as old retri, you can kill the servant target but now the servant gets their role, so basically it undones the job that the other faction made

Now about judge; we didnt see much but seeing how the voting system is in forum mafia, it is overpowered, you can get as many votes on you (or anyone) and your sole vote can get another person lynched due to objection, I dont think this is a problem in normal ToS because of how the voting is, but in FM it is way to strong


Well I think I got nothing to add other than the role list

DecDecattack/Endertoad: Tracker
Salocin481: Servant (Target Ezradekezra)
Ezradekezra: Necromancer
Alex1234321: Judge
Sunshinesnekdeceit: Sheriff
VampireAcolyte: Serial Killer
MadBomberCat: Jailor
SuperGDPWYL: Investigator
TheMaroon5Fan: Lookout
Descender: Bouncer
EtherealEnder: Trapper
Mightygi11: Medusa
Brilliand: Veteran
Chrischris40: Potion Master
Mr60gold: Coven Leader
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby MR60G0LD » Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:50 pm

good game everyone, had fun playing, hope I can join in on the next one (and hopefully be more influential than I was in this game as I didn't do a whole lot)
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby Descender » Wed Apr 13, 2022 3:05 pm

this game was a trainwreck
i think the most we can conclude is that every game needs a common sense rule for alex land that verification should be sorted pre game
oh and servant is bullshit
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby MadBomberCat » Wed Apr 13, 2022 3:36 pm

GGs everyone, coven played really well.
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby Ezradekezra » Wed Apr 13, 2022 3:37 pm

gg

Servant should definitely be kept out of balanced modes but that's true of all NBs tbh. It'd probably work well enough in CAA or something like that imo.

Hammering Alex out of nowhere was funny
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Re: TG episode XIII | Coven Wins

Postby EtherealEnder » Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:00 pm

servant is barely even nb. like by definition it should be nc
My name is Axeras :>



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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby Brilliand » Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:33 pm

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Now about judge; we didnt see much but seeing how the voting system is in forum mafia, it is overpowered, you can get as many votes on you (or anyone) and your sole vote can get another person lynched due to objection, I dont think this is a problem in normal ToS because of how the voting is, but in FM it is way to strong


Note that if you hadn't nerfed Judge to be unable to self-protect, then D3 would have ended very differently. Alex would have objected to his own lynching, most likely resulting in the lynch getting pushed off onto Ezra, and setting up a D4 where Town would have a significant (but not decisive) advantage.

By taking away Judge's ability to self-protect, you pulled the rug out from under Alex, especially because Alex was likely playing so aggressively because he thought that he was playing a highly confirmable role on par with Mayor. Mayor can actually do what Alex did and get away with it; Widget's Judge can too; but syj's Judge cannot.

I'm not sure whether announcing the change to Judge beforehand would have solved that problem - it depends on whether Alex was basing his behavior on his own reading of the role, or on past discussions where the general consensus was that Judge functions similarly to Mayor.

Aside from that, I see the proxy vote mechanic as just unfair. The plurality voting system already carries significantly more risk of evils forcing a mislynch than Town of Salem has; now you've added a special mechanic just to make it easier for them to do that?
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby sunshinesnekdeceit » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:04 pm

Brilliand wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Now about judge; we didnt see much but seeing how the voting system is in forum mafia, it is overpowered, you can get as many votes on you (or anyone) and your sole vote can get another person lynched due to objection, I dont think this is a problem in normal ToS because of how the voting is, but in FM it is way to strong


Note that if you hadn't nerfed Judge to be unable to self-protect, then D3 would have ended very differently. Alex would have objected to his own lynching, most likely resulting in the lynch getting pushed off onto Ezra, and setting up a D4 where Town would have a significant (but not decisive) advantage.

By taking away Judge's ability to self-protect, you pulled the rug out from under Alex, especially because Alex was likely playing so aggressively because he thought that he was playing a highly confirmable role on par with Mayor. Mayor can actually do what Alex did and get away with it; Widget's Judge can too; but syj's Judge cannot.

I'm not sure whether announcing the change to Judge beforehand would have solved that problem - it depends on whether Alex was basing his behavior on his own reading of the role, or on past discussions where the general consensus was that Judge functions similarly to Mayor.

Aside from that, I see the proxy vote mechanic as just unfair. The plurality voting system already carries significantly more risk of evils forcing a mislynch than Town of Salem has; now you've added a special mechanic just to make it easier for them to do that?


I agree with a lot of this (Im guessing I can post now even though I died because its game over, please tell me if I cant).

I was also unaware of the judge change so was confused when that was announced (while in dead chat) because I was one of the people (idk if others did it) who pulled off the self protect as judge in testing. This is my first time playing FM so it was fun but I hope to be able to play it again.
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby alex1234321 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:10 pm

Brilliand wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Now about judge; we didnt see much but seeing how the voting system is in forum mafia, it is overpowered, you can get as many votes on you (or anyone) and your sole vote can get another person lynched due to objection, I dont think this is a problem in normal ToS because of how the voting is, but in FM it is way to strong


Note that if you hadn't nerfed Judge to be unable to self-protect, then D3 would have ended very differently. Alex would have objected to his own lynching, most likely resulting in the lynch getting pushed off onto Ezra, and setting up a D4 where Town would have a significant (but not decisive) advantage.

By taking away Judge's ability to self-protect, you pulled the rug out from under Alex, especially because Alex was likely playing so aggressively because he thought that he was playing a highly confirmable role on par with Mayor. Mayor can actually do what Alex did and get away with it; Widget's Judge can too; but syj's Judge cannot.

I'm not sure whether announcing the change to Judge beforehand would have solved that problem - it depends on whether Alex was basing his behavior on his own reading of the role, or on past discussions where the general consensus was that Judge functions similarly to Mayor.

Aside from that, I see the proxy vote mechanic as just unfair. The plurality voting system already carries significantly more risk of evils forcing a mislynch than Town of Salem has; now you've added a special mechanic just to make it easier for them to do that?


No I knew that syj wasn't letting Judge self-object. I honestly thought all the Townies would've voted Ezra over me and wasn't expecting a Coven Servant. On D2 I tried to lead the town and wasn't much of a lynch target so I knew I had some leeway. I actually wanted to move the Lynch to sal first which would've worked well but then last minute I decided endertoad was a bigger scumread since they defended themselves worse than sal.

I do think the proxy vote was unfair since Jaiden could have switched her vote had obvious coven members started piling on me, but it depends on the timing of that and only Jaiden knows whether she would've switched the vote had conf scum started voting me.
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:38 pm

Brilliand wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Now about judge; we didnt see much but seeing how the voting system is in forum mafia, it is overpowered, you can get as many votes on you (or anyone) and your sole vote can get another person lynched due to objection, I dont think this is a problem in normal ToS because of how the voting is, but in FM it is way to strong


Note that if you hadn't nerfed Judge to be unable to self-protect, then D3 would have ended very differently. Alex would have objected to his own lynching, most likely resulting in the lynch getting pushed off onto Ezra, and setting up a D4 where Town would have a significant (but not decisive) advantage.

By taking away Judge's ability to self-protect, you pulled the rug out from under Alex, especially because Alex was likely playing so aggressively because he thought that he was playing a highly confirmable role on par with Mayor. Mayor can actually do what Alex did and get away with it; Widget's Judge can too; but syj's Judge cannot.

I'm not sure whether announcing the change to Judge beforehand would have solved that problem - it depends on whether Alex was basing his behavior on his own reading of the role, or on past discussions where the general consensus was that Judge functions similarly to Mayor.

Aside from that, I see the proxy vote mechanic as just unfair. The plurality voting system already carries significantly more risk of evils forcing a mislynch than Town of Salem has; now you've added a special mechanic just to make it easier for them to do that?


Yeah I should have announced it since the start, or ask cavespider or wave how the role worked, I take responsibility for that


Now the proxy votes, I do admit it was kinda bs considering I had forgot to announce they were allowed, I also take respinsibility for that

BUT alex did know he could object himself (he asked me before d1 even started) and if it wasnt for the angleshoot he would have been lynched most likely
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby Salocin481 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:14 pm

The issue for us as Coven is that d1, three of our coven members were silent, so the scum team was just Ezra and I for a while. We had to do proxy actions at night as well. I didn't know proxy voting was something that we could do, so at the end of d2 I decided my best move was to just not show up and hope that Ezra wasn't lynched.

Had we known Judge couldn't vote for themselves, we could've won sooner. We could've witched Jailor and gotten Rokk stabbed by Acolyte. We knew Acolyte wasn't Survivor since I was the NB, and based on the Doc claim we reasoned they were SK.

A D2 win (outside of relying on Jaiden to vote Alex) could've been mechanically possible if we played our cards better.

I agree that Servant is too swingy. Like most NB, honestly, but Servant is worse. It's probably fine in Chaos modes, and it's pretty fun! Thus far in the two FMs with Servant, the team with Servant has had a MASSIVE advantage.
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby MadBomberCat » Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:10 pm

Salocin481 wrote:The issue for us as Coven is that d1, three of our coven members were silent, so the scum team was just Ezra and I for a while. We had to do proxy actions at night as well. I didn't know proxy voting was something that we could do, so at the end of d2 I decided my best move was to just not show up and hope that Ezra wasn't lynched.

Had we known Judge couldn't vote for themselves, we could've won sooner. We could've witched Jailor and gotten Rokk stabbed by Acolyte. We knew Acolyte wasn't Survivor since I was the NB, and based on the Doc claim we reasoned they were SK.

A D2 win (outside of relying on Jaiden to vote Alex) could've been mechanically possible if we played our cards better.

I agree that Servant is too swingy. Like most NB, honestly, but Servant is worse. It's probably fine in Chaos modes, and it's pretty fun! Thus far in the two FMs with Servant, the team with Servant has had a MASSIVE advantage.

I had no idea coven knew I was jailor N2, the only person I had told at that point was Alex. Either coven did better than I thought or I did worse than I thought. I feel like if you had to do a proxy night action, the person should have been replaced, as that’s a day and night of inactivity, no?
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby MadBomberCat » Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:13 pm

Brilliand wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Now about judge; we didnt see much but seeing how the voting system is in forum mafia, it is overpowered, you can get as many votes on you (or anyone) and your sole vote can get another person lynched due to objection, I dont think this is a problem in normal ToS because of how the voting is, but in FM it is way to strong


Note that if you hadn't nerfed Judge to be unable to self-protect, then D3 would have ended very differently. Alex would have objected to his own lynching, most likely resulting in the lynch getting pushed off onto Ezra, and setting up a D4 where Town would have a significant (but not decisive) advantage.

By taking away Judge's ability to self-protect, you pulled the rug out from under Alex, especially because Alex was likely playing so aggressively because he thought that he was playing a highly confirmable role on par with Mayor. Mayor can actually do what Alex did and get away with it; Widget's Judge can too; but syj's Judge cannot.

I'm not sure whether announcing the change to Judge beforehand would have solved that problem - it depends on whether Alex was basing his behavior on his own reading of the role, or on past discussions where the general consensus was that Judge functions similarly to Mayor.

Aside from that, I see the proxy vote mechanic as just unfair. The plurality voting system already carries significantly more risk of evils forcing a mislynch than Town of Salem has; now you've added a special mechanic just to make it easier for them to do that?

Alex likely would have died, even if they could self protect, due to the proxy vote. Ezra was leading in terms of vote count, and considering the second most voted person was Alex, they would not have an object ready to go. I’m assuming Judge can’t object or not after the final vote, because that’s how Judge normally works, but unless Judge could both self object and change objection after final vote, Alex was dead regardless
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Re: TG episode XIII | Day 3

Postby VampireAcolyte » Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:49 pm

Salocin481 wrote:The issue for us as Coven is that d1, three of our coven members were silent, so the scum team was just Ezra and I for a while. We had to do proxy actions at night as well. I didn't know proxy voting was something that we could do, so at the end of d2 I decided my best move was to just not show up and hope that Ezra wasn't lynched.

Had we known Judge couldn't vote for themselves, we could've won sooner. We could've witched Jailor and gotten Rokk stabbed by Acolyte. We knew Acolyte wasn't Survivor since I was the NB, and based on the Doc claim we reasoned they were SK.

A D2 win (outside of relying on Jaiden to vote Alex) could've been mechanically possible if we played our cards better.

I agree that Servant is too swingy. Like most NB, honestly, but Servant is worse. It's probably fine in Chaos modes, and it's pretty fun! Thus far in the two FMs with Servant, the team with Servant has had a MASSIVE advantage.




I was aware the game was likely to end with the Coven winning, I had cautioused the Jailor just in case he was witched because I knew if I didn't the coven would IMMEDIATELY win, me claiming doc was just because I didn't really want to try a complicated game in the very first match but I just got fucked all around, had you witched the Jailor I likely would've just came out as scum and started killing whoever I think is starting to gain maj, what would town do, lynch me? exe me with 4 coven and a servant?
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Re: TG episode XIII | Coven Wins

Postby Chrischris40 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:59 pm

GG, also I apologize for pretty much being inactive throughout the game. I waited late to make make an introductory post so I wasn't able to communicate on the first 2 days. On day 3, I was able to but wanted to wait a little closer to the end of the day to stall from claiming, making me even more nonexistent.
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