TG Role/Concept Poll | Voting

[cob709]

Voting

Bishop by cob709
Duelist by sunbird1002
Historian by alex1234321
Associate by superdog551
Neutral Subalignment Rearrangement by Ezradekezra (option B)
Chaos Gamemode: Modifiers by cob709

Notes

I like associate, but the "Feedback" ability doesn't enhance another Mafia's abilities. It adds on an entirely new one. Everything else is fine

[superdog551]

/Vote Blacksmith
/Vote Duelist
/Vote Historian
/Vote Associate
/Vote Confounder
/Vote Pseudocider
/Vote Vamp Rework
/Vote Neutral Subalignment Rework
/Vote Chaos Gamemode: Modifiers

Good luck everyone! Can't wait to try out some of these roles!

[alex1234321]

My thoughts:

Bartender by Cabohhh Allowing it to see whispers would deter scum from whispering, at which point whispers would essentially be useless for both sides. Without that ability it's basically a Spy.
Bishop by cob709 Definitely could negatively affect the meta in its current forms, but rampage heals could make it balanced if implemented properly.
Blacksmith by alex1234321 Has less healing power in exchange for more versatility compared to Doctor, which allows it to have unique strategies that are different from other TPs.
Duelist by sunbird1002 Should be buffed, but it has a high skill ceiling and requires players to decide whether to prioritize dueling or protecting.
Historian by alex1234321 Probably OP right now, but there are several ways to nerf it if tests confirm this.
Prophet by Benn3 Seems like a weaker Doctor right now. It could be interesting if it could predict a wider variety of effects, but then it would be a weaker FM Marshal.
Associate by superdog551 Roles with multiple abilities tend to be overly complicated, but Tech worked surprisingly well so we can give this one a try.
Confounder by Ezradekezra Might just be a buffed Consort, but I would like to see this in action since its so different from the existing Mafia roles.
Pseudocider by Benn3 Too weak in Ranked, even with unlimited uses it wouldn't be able to do much without an NK.
Sniper by MarsGodofWar Doesn't really require skill to kill one person, plus it's an independent kill for Mafia.
Ritualist by alex1234321 Exe but without the alignment problems or RNG problems while actually benefiting from an Exe strategy.
Soothsayer by sunbird1002 Doesn't do much besides providing extra kills for Mafia. My Ritualist is a better implementation of this concept since it's part of a faction that relies on kills.
Vampire Rework by alex1234321 Similar strategy to the current Vampires will adding good mechanics (triple roleblock) and removing bad ones.
Neutral Subalignment Rearrangement by Ezradekezra (option B) I strongly support this, but I don't see how it would work in a 7p test where the Neutrals are often handpicked.
Chaos Gamemode: Modifiers by cob709 This should be a minigame, not an official test concept.

/vote Bishop
/vote Blacksmith
/vote Duelist
/vote Historian
/vote Associate
/vote Confounder
/vote Ritualist
/vote Vampire Rework

[superdog551]

I have edited my Associate role and removed the "Feedback" ability from it after reading some opinions. Posting this here in case that edit would change anyone's vote

[cob709]

Bishop by cob709 Definitely could negatively affect the meta in its current forms, but rampage heals could make it balanced if implemented properly.

Will make an update about it for the next submission session.

Chaos Gamemode: Modifiers by cob709 This should be a minigame, not an official test concept.

Chaos gamemodes are also official parts of ToS, and thus should be considered just as seriously as other submissions.

[MarsGodofWar]

Bishop is a terrible role lol just scrap the idea completely. A Town Protective which can create a santuary who heals sanyone who visits him, so basically 75% of the town is untouchable for a night, stupid fucking concept. People here don't know what makes a good role, seeing as two of the worse roles suggested received the most votes last month.

[MarsGodofWar]

My thoughts:
Sniper by MarsGodofWar Doesn't really require skill to kill one person, plus it's an independent kill for Mafia.

Oh, because the Bishop requires skill to set up an invincibility pad for the night? Sniper requires skill, randomly shooting one person is dumb. At least Sniper deals with the TP/LO meta which is completely killing this game

[MarsGodofWar]

This is pathetic. Take your toxicity elsewhere please, I've been getting tired of seeing it everywhere on these forums

Where else on the forums? I suggested perfectly valid ideas, but other people started the toxicicity by making a big deal because I wanted Transporter to lose its roleblock immunity. Cob507 acted like he was the smartest person in the world and annoyed me multiple times about this, even though solutions had been suggested

[Benn3]

My thoughts:
Sniper by MarsGodofWar Doesn't really require skill to kill one person, plus it's an independent kill for Mafia.

Oh, because the Bishop requires skill to set up an invincibility pad for the night? Sniper requires skill, randomly shooting one person is dumb. At least Sniper deals with the TP/LO meta which is completely killing this game

That ain't even the problem with Bishop. The problem is that people have to go out of their way to visit you, directly counter-acting what they're supposed to do as a visiting role, especially if they're a TI. Other TPs, sure, but the Bishop has limited uses, so that means he essentially ends up becoming just a Doctor. The other TPs mise would just side with a different TP. Not only that, but evils can visit them for protection too. I think it should be edited so that you place sanctuaries at OTHER people's houses every night, however with only the ability to protect 2 people who visit at max, not including the person you selected(possibly could be an evil role that TIs are going on). That way, people don't need to sacrifice their night ability. Instead, YOU need to predict the player that most people will visit. Also, I think that it shouldn't provide defense to evils either.

[sunbird1002]

Thoughts on each role:
Bartender
Spoiler: Seems like an interesting idea, but as others have pointed out, giving scum space to whisper to each other without the risk of being heard really has helped the game. I don't really want to return to that. Otherwise, seems like a spy which has a less flexible bugging ability. Eh. Not sure how to fix as the role is based around a mechanic which isn't healthy for the game (town reading whispers).
Bishop
Spoiler: No. In its current form, no. A Town Protective which cannot protect more than half of the town roles due to them A. Not being able to visit or B. Their visits outright harm town such as Vigilante shooting the Bishop, Escort roleblocking the Bishop, or a Transporter transporting away the Bishop from everyone who wants protection. Others have pointed out how ugly metas can form where mafia is deadlocked out of the game from town visiting the Bishop. Also, the fact that it roleblocks those it heals seems to only achieve slowing down the game. In its current state, this role is both utterly ineffective as a Town Protective, and potentially detrimental to the game. Rampage heals might make this better, as well as choosing the place to set up the sancturary.
Blacksmith
Spoiler: Quite a cool role. Combats Jailor TP/LO meta (which Bishop also does), but this time it can protect the whole town potentially. Quite skill testing because you need to predict who will die (either from a lynch or a kill at night.) Has a large reward. The only potential issue I see is that you don't want this to be watching over town roles (I mean, you could, but you might as well be playing a worse doctor with a delayed heal then. Its a race of time before mafia gain majority.) So instead you should be looking over scum roles and control the lynch in a 1f1. Potentially very skill testing, but if town are already lynching mafia, the question is whether this role's potential will ever be seen in a game. I still really like the look of it.

Duelist
This is my role.

Historian
Spoiler: I think in gameplay this might prove quite a powerful effect. Any visiting confirmed town could confirm other towns using their wills, but there is counterplay to this role. I really like it actually.

Prophet
Spoiler: In most cases, a worse doctor. Only ever relevant in games with Arsonists/Pests, so when it comes to mafia, it functions identically to a doctor with the only downside being that it cannot target the same person twice. It also functions very similarly to doctor (because in your average ranked game there is only a mafioso killing others) so much so that I don't see much of a point of looking at this as a 'new' way to protect someone.

Associate
Spoiler: I mean, a complex mafia support role has been done before (Technician) and despite my initial scepticism, it does seem to be doing well. I think this is even simpler, so I don't see why not.

Confounder
Spoiler: Probably really powerful, but this is another role I like. Good disruption to the TPLO meta, and the effect is not unlike a Witch's but less powerful. Can be used to great effect by the mafia, but requires knowledge of other people's roles to work... Hm. While writing this, I realised that people not getting a message that there is a confounder is VERY powerful for one reason: Town Investigatives exist. This does Framer's job far better because the Town Investigatives usually out early in the meta for town to gain information. Can cause a mislynch. Can basically give mafia a reason why they have conflicting results with TIs. This role has a large potential to hurt town extremely. Will need to keep an eye out on this one.

Pseudocider
Spoiler: Currently of limited use in the ranked rolelist, because mafia deaths are expected and changing the cause can be only a slight hinderance to town. There are some niche scenarios where this is useful. 1. Making people look like a veteran (Not very good because the town can just figure out pseudocider messed with death on the spot. 2. Making a vigilante claim (Oh I shot XYZ, they were quiet. I'm confirmed vig. Will die next night.- Mafioso 2021.) Of course, claims like these will be viewed with suspicion because mafia didn't appear to kill on the same night. Once town have figured out a pseudocider is in game, the death messages lose their power (unlike figuring out a forger is in game, that revelation will not bring back the roles or wills of the forged deaths.) So, in some scenarios can save 1 mafia from being lynched and delay the game by a day to make a mafia win. But I think this is a framer tier role sadly.

Sniper
Spoiler: Mafia does not need more KPN, even if the role counters a TPLO problem. Its not even unique, so mafia can have potentially 3 kills in 1 night. Don't you see how this can be potentially busted? In a 6 v 9 game?

Ritualist
Spoiler: Sure. A cool role. No real complaints about it, though it might be a bit inconsistent with its kills. Its why I made a similar idea Neutral Evil personally but I can see why it fits well into Coven too.

Soothsayer
This is my role. Very similar to ritualist. Just trying to make an NE which could be equivalent to Witch without ability stealing.

Vampire
Spoiler: While I dislike Neutral Chaos (why oh why cant we be content with Neutral Evil and Neutral Killing?) this is a step in the right direction for Vampire. Why not.

Neutral Realignment
Spoiler: Perhaps this will make me at last like Neutral Chaos!

Chaos Alignment
Spoiler: Eh. I prefer to stick to roles bfore doing this.

/vote Blacksmith
/vote Duelist
/vote Historian
/vote Associate
/vote Confounder
/vote Ritualist
/vote Soothsayer
/vote Vampire Rework
/vote Neutral Realignment

[Brilliand]

For starters, I'll stand by my previous votes:

/vote Historian by alex1234321
/vote Blacksmith by alex1234321

As for the new roles:

/vote Duelist by sunbird1002 Needs tweaking, but it's a great idea.
/vote Associate by superdog551 Seems balanced; I'm worried about the complexity, but it's worth a try.
/vote Confounder by Ezradekezra Maybe too chaotic, but at first glance it seems like an OK thing to give the Mafia access to.
/vote Ritualist by alex1234321 We might have issues testing this due to a mislynch+bonus kill being far more powerful in a small game than a large game.

I suggested perfectly valid ideas, but other people started the toxicicity by making a big deal because I wanted Transporter to lose its roleblock immunity.

Incidentally, why has "Transporter loses its roleblock immunity" not shown up in the Testing Grounds voting?

[MarsGodofWar]

Incidentally, why has "Transporter loses its roleblock immunity" not shown up in the Testing Grounds voting?

Well most people don't seem to care about balancing the game. From a logic point of view transporter losing his roleblock immunity makes perfect sense. You participated in the thread, did you not? So you would have seen how much of a big deal Syvdsjvjdsgvj (or whatever his name is) and cob507 made about the priority issues, even though solutions had been suggested about it. They (mostly cob) were very toxic about it, cob having posted about 12 times with the paradox bullshit. So I was twice as rude back to cob507 and Sysffjdjfjfds seeing as they came into the thread with open toxicity when at that point I really hadn't done anything wrong. Yet that makes me the bad guy? "Transporter loses its roleblock immunity" wasn't not voted because it was a bad idea, so don't phrase your question like it was. I think most people just skipped over it, some people didn't see it as necessary as its just a minor-moderate balance change. And a few people didn't vote it because they don't like me, not because the idea was a bad idea it self.

Sniper
Spoiler: Mafia does not need more KPN, even if the role counters a TPLO problem. Its not even unique, so mafia can have potentially 3 kills in 1 night. Don't you see how this can be potentially busted? In a 6 v 9 game?

Actually if you read the post properly you would see that it does specific that this role is unique. So instead of making me need to comment when I shouldn't have to, go buy yourself a pair of glasses please.
This games already busted anyway and the Mafia having 1 extra kill a night wouldn't be busted. Anyway, the game should be balanced as a 5v10. In 6v9 games, wins/losses are usually determined by the mistakes of one or two players and not the majority.

Chaos Gamemode: Modifiers by cob709 This should be a minigame, not an official test concept.

Chaos gamemodes are also official parts of ToS, and thus should be considered just as seriously as other submissions.[/quote]

The games far too dead to consider adding random keywords to roles in custom. Blankmediagames won't add modifiers to roles anytime soon (if ever). The game needs to be balanced properly (if they even ever do that) before addition options should added. Prehaps they can start by fixing all the awful/broken roles namely Spy/Framer/Retributionist, plus a few other roles that need minor adjustments and the game as a whole needs a balance overhaul.

[sunbird1002]

I looked at the role card, not the description at the top telling me how good the role is. Whether or not a role should be unique should be in its attributes. Also what does "this is a unique role and is not able to appear with other Mafia Killings." mean? Its not able to appear when mafioso or Godfather is in game? Perhaps you mean your other Mafia Killing roles, but that is only an interpretation I came to after much thought of what you could possibly mean. Allowing two kills in one night is such a powerful concept that it gives this role a disproportionate amount of power compared to other mafia roles (As this threatens mafia to get equal numbers in the town a whole day earlier.) It can lead to more VFR strategies. Shorter games feel more random because N1 is given greater weight.

[Brilliand]

Incidentally, why has "Transporter loses its roleblock immunity" not shown up in the Testing Grounds voting?

Well most people don't seem to care about balancing the game. From a logic point of view transporter losing his roleblock immunity makes perfect sense. You participated in the thread, did you not? So you would have seen how much of a big deal Syvdsjvjdsgvj (or whatever his name is) and cob507 made about the priority issues, even though solutions had been suggested about it. They (mostly cob) were very toxic about it, cob having posted about 12 times with the paradox bullshit. So I was twice as rude back to cob507 and Sysffjdjfjfds seeing as they came into the thread with open toxicity when at that point I really hadn't done anything wrong. Yet that makes me the bad guy? "Transporter loses its roleblock immunity" wasn't not voted because it was a bad idea, so don't phrase your question like it was. I think most people just skipped over it, some people didn't see it as necessary as its just a minor-moderate balance change. And a few people didn't vote it because they don't like me, not because the idea was a bad idea it self.

Wait did it show up in the Testing Grounds voting? You're talking like the idea has been nominated before (and just not voted in), but I searched the thread and I can't find any sign of it.

[MarsGodofWar]

Wait did it show up in the Testing Grounds voting? You're talking like the idea has been nominated before (and just not voted in), but I searched the thread and I can't find any sign of it.

This has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make. Like I mentioned, the idea is by no means a bad idea. It is actually a fairly logical and balanced idea. Besides, it was nominated just not seconded. Are you blind? Stop making me have to repeat myself because you missed something. Go and buy yourself a pair of glasses instead of wasting my time.

I looked at the role card, not the description at the top telling me how good the role is. Whether or not a role should be unique should be in its attributes. Also what does "this is a unique role and is not able to appear with other Mafia Killings." mean? Its not able to appear when mafioso or Godfather is in game? Perhaps you mean your other Mafia Killing roles, but that is only an interpretation I came to after much thought of what you could possibly mean. Allowing two kills in one night is such a powerful concept that it gives this role a disproportionate amount of power compared to other mafia roles (As this threatens mafia to get equal numbers in the town a whole day earlier.) It can lead to more VFR strategies. Shorter games feel more random because N1 is given greater weight.

It was specified in the post itself that the role is unique, so please don't complain about something that isn't relevant. No role in the current game that is unique says so on the role card.

Sniper can appear with Mafioso and Godfather, but not with Independent Mafia Killing Roles (Ambusher). I think that should have been fairly obvious.

Ambusher currently allows two kills par night. And remember this can only achieve one kill. An extra kill once a game is far from overpowered.

[MarsGodofWar]

My thoughts:
Bartender by Cabohhh Allowing it to see whispers would deter scum from whispering, at which point whispers would essentially be useless for both sides. Without that ability it's basically a Spy.
Bishop by cob709 Definitely could negatively affect the meta in its current forms, but rampage heals could make it balanced if implemented properly. This game already has a stale meta which has killed off the population of this game. If a role could (which it would) negatively affect the meta, then why on earth are you voting it?
Blacksmith by alex1234321 Has less healing power in exchange for more versatility compared to Doctor, which allows it to have unique strategies that are different from other TPs.
Duelist by sunbird1002 Should be buffed, but it has a high skill ceiling and requires players to decide whether to prioritize dueling or protecting.
Historian by alex1234321 Probably OP right now, but there are several ways to nerf it if tests confirm this.
Prophet by Benn3 Seems like a weaker Doctor right now. It could be interesting if it could predict a wider variety of effects, but then it would be a weaker FM Marshal.
Associate by superdog551 Roles with multiple abilities tend to be overly complicated, but Tech worked surprisingly well so we can give this one a try. Tech was an original idea with interesting abilities. The same cannot be said for Associate.
Confounder by Ezradekezra Might just be a buffed Consort, but I would like to see this in action since its so different from the existing Mafia roles.
Pseudocider by Benn3 Too weak in Ranked, even with unlimited uses it wouldn't be able to do much without an NK.
Sniper by MarsGodofWar Doesn't really require skill to kill one person, plus it's an independent kill for Mafia. It requires skill to kill the right person. "plus its an independent kill for Mafia" doesn't say much
Ritualist by alex1234321 Exe but without the alignment problems or RNG problems while actually benefiting from an Exe strategy. So the most boring role in the game but morphed into a Coven role?
Soothsayer by sunbird1002 Doesn't do much besides providing extra kills for Mafia. My Ritualist is a better implementation of this concept since it's part of a faction that relies on kills.
Vampire Rework by alex1234321 Similar strategy to the current Vampires will adding good mechanics (triple roleblock) and removing bad ones.
Neutral Subalignment Rearrangement by Ezradekezra (option B) I strongly support this, but I don't see how it would work in a 7p test where the Neutrals are often handpicked.
Chaos Gamemode: Modifiers by cob709 This should be a minigame, not an official test concept.

/vote Bishop
/vote Blacksmith
/vote Duelist
/vote Historian
/vote Associate
/vote Confounder
/vote Ritualist
/vote Vampire Rework

Ok, so you've pointed out at least one flaw in most of these roles including your own yet you've voted for them? If your saying a role can be buffed or nerfed, then don't vote it. Roles should not be voted if they need major tweaks

[MarsGodofWar]

One of the worse roles last month received the highest amount of votes; Kleptomaniac which is nothing but a Consigliere/Witch morph with a day time ability. At least last month we had Technician and Agent which received top votes, but this month most of the roles are just shocking, bluntly put. I just cannot say that in a nicer way. Once again this month the worse role has the most votes "Associate" which I dislike more then "Bishop". It's clear that after seeing the results for last month and this month that these testing grounds are never gonna go aware as most of these roles are extremely unbalanced, unrealistic, unoriginal and will never be added to the game.

Seeing as this seems to be a popularity contest more then it is a contest for good reworks/new roles then I feel no desire to participate in this months polls.

Thoughts on Associate

Are we all looking at the same role here? Most of the roles suggested in the last few months in the polls are absolute jokes, this one included.

So this role has three abilities?

-Alibi which is just an ability which would make Sheriff more useless then it already is. Sheriff needs a buff not a nerf. It is also just an enhanced version of Disguisers normal abillity. So an alibi hides a visit from the Spy and makes your target detection immune, but not only that it hides your visit and makes yourself detection immune for the night. So two members of the Mafia are completely undetectable to Sheriff for one night. Do you not see how bad this would be for the game? It makes the Sheriff the most useless role in the game.

Disguiser currently hides a visit from the spy, but can be deciphered as the Disguised target will also appear as visited. But at least the Disguiser can only make one player immune to Sheriff. Disguiser is a bad role lets get that straight and it is a terrible concept, but the solution is not to give an enhanced version of the disguisers ability to another role.

-Efficiency allows a mafia member to target twice. Really really bad concept. No role should be allowed to target twice. And besides, most Mafia roles are not useful enough that allowing them to target twice would be helpful. This abillity is practically only useful for three Mafia roles (which may not occur). Blackmailer, Consigliere, & Hypnotist. Blackmailer is fine being able to silent one person a night, they don't need the abillity to silence two people. Even though it would be useful, its not enough to justify having a role to enhance this. Same goes for Consigliere. It would make it eaiser to fake claim transporter as hypno, but thats not enough to justify it either.

Efficiency doesn't sound really efficient at all, seeing as its mostly useless if used against a Forger, Janitor, Framer. Framer isn't powerful enough that targetting twice a night would be game changing. Forger and Janitor would only be useful on the nights that you somehow get lucky and target a player that died by other means.

-Stealth: (That mafia member's visit becomes astral that night.) Very pathetic and lazy suggestion, defiantly the worse of the three suggested. It's like you just chucked it in to bring this role up to three abillitys which seems to be the magically number for multiuse roles. So an associate (who is a mortal I assume) is able to make a simple Mafia member with a gun travel from the astral realm (spirit realm) and kill someone. No just stop. Astral is a Coven ability not Mafia.

Mostly just an abillity to bypass a Lookout. Just straight bad, we don't need abilitys to counter one Town Investigative role. There are other ways to fix Lookout, namely nerfing the tp/lo meta. And no Mafia role should be able to bypass a Bodyguard period

Summary: Really just a bad role, period. Complete and utterly boring and unoriginal concept. I don't know how to kindly say that. I can't believe this role has actually been seconded and voted for multiple times. And the amount of people that actually think this role is a good idea is mind boggling. I guess most of the people who voted are the same people who voted for Klepto (Witch/Consigliere daytime morph) on the last poll

/second Pseudocider by Benn3

Good luck

I will second Bartender, Psuedocider, Prophet & Soothsayer

Yeah straight up a popularity contest. Pseudocider was originally a role which I created expect under the name Soldier. I then revamped it into a Framer Rework, which I also gave more abillties. Other then only changing the outcome of a players death, which my original suggestion only did. I nominated the Framer Rework, which is far more balanced and useful then the Pseudocider. But seeing as that didn't get Seconded and Pseudocider did which is just an extremely weakened version of my Framer Rework. It appears this is nothing more then a popularity contest

Seeing as permission from the original author of the role is needed. I do not give permission for Pseudocider to be tested.

[sunbird1002]

Firstly, some roles can surprise us, and although Sniper is WAY more powerful than Ambusher, there is always a chance for surprises.

/vote Sniper

Also, to answer Mars, Framer is a weak role, yes. Your rework is even very interesting and I assumed it was seconded, yes. But you don't own any concepts for role ideas when it is much more likely that the people here came up with the ideas themselves. Its like saying that I could say 'Nope Ritualist doesn't exist' because I happened to make a role a long time ago which shares an extremely similar idea.

[superdog551]

The associate's visit is only hidden from spies if it uses Alibi, they don't also become detection immune. They can only be detection immune if they select themselves during the day and don't accompany anyone. The role used to have four abilities and I recently removed one to bring it down to three, I didn't have an arbitrary amount. You can stop being so adamant about the term "Astral" being "Oh so they turn into a ghost??! How do they do that, it's impossible?!" when it is literally just a term the game uses to describe undetectable visits. I could call it just "your visit becomes stealthy" but it has the same mechanic as astral, so why the need for different terms?

Efficiency would be very useful for consorts too, and the astral visit does not just prevent Lookouts it would also go through any TPs if used on a mafioso. Unlike with alibi, the Associate does not also gain an astral visit, so they are still detected by anyone on the target.

[Benn3]

Yeah straight up a popularity contest. Pseudocider was originally a role which I created expect under the name Soldier. I then revamped it into a Framer Rework, which I also gave more abillties. Other then only changing the outcome of a players death, which my original suggestion only did. I nominated the Framer Rework, which is far more balanced and useful then the Pseudocider. But seeing as that didn't get Seconded and Pseudocider did which is just an extremely weakened version of my Framer Rework. It appears this is nothing more then a popularity contest

Seeing as permission from the original author of the role is needed. I do not give permission for Pseudocider to be tested.

I never even saw or read your Soldier concept, nor did I read the Framer Rework. It's common for people to come up with the same ideas as somebody else, you don't COPYRIGHT the idea either. It's not like I just scrolled through all the concepts, looked at yours like "oh that's good let me re-word that" and then made it into this. So don't just go assuming things like that, ESPECIALLY with a role like this, which most likely, you weren't even the first to make an idea on either.

[alex1234321]

Sorry for the delay; I was trying to figure out how to run the tiebreaker. Anyway, voting has ended! Here are the final results:

Bartender by Cabohhh 0
Bishop by cob709 2
Blacksmith by alex1234321 5
Duelist by sunbird1002 6
Historian by alex1234321 5
Prophet by Benn3 1
Associate by superdog551 8
Confounder by Ezradekezra 6
Pseudocider by Benn3 2
Sniper by MarsGodofWar 1
Ritualist by alex1234321 4
Soothsayer by sunbird1002 1
Vampire Rework by alex1234321 4
Neutral Subalignment Rearrangement by Ezradekezra (option B) 5
Chaos Gamemode: Modifiers by cob709 4

We will be doing a tiebreaker! The following roles received enough votes and will automatically be tested in the TG:

Duelist by sunbird1002
Associate by superdog551
Confounder by Ezradekezra

The following roles qualified flor the tiebreaker. One of them will make it into the TG this month:

Blacksmith by alex1234321
Historian by alex1234321
Neutral Subalignment Rearrangement by Ezradekezra (option B)

The following roles did not qualify for testing this month but received at least half the required number of votes to be tested, so they will automatically be included in the next poll. The roles that lose the tiebreaker will also fall under this category.

Ritualist by alex1234321
Vampire Rework by alex1234321
Chaos Gamemode: Modifiers by cob709

The remaining roles did not receive enough votes to automatically qualify for next month's role poll. These concepts must be resubmitted in order to appear in the next role poll, preferably with edits:

Bartender by Cabohhh
Bishop by cob709
Prophet by Benn3
Pseudocider by Benn3
Sniper by MarsGodofWar
Soothsayer by sunbird1002

The tiebreaker use approval voting and will last until . Vote for your favorite roles now!

[Royee]

/vote Neutral Subalignment Rearrangement

[alex1234321]

I feel like a corrupt dictator for doing this.

Most TG games have 7-9 players, and none have had more than 11. Any rolelist of this size with more than 1-2 Neutrals will inherently be unbalanced, and many of our rolelists have used handpicked Neutrals (most recently a Witch/Klepto slot). Of course we want to try to make the TG as similar to ToS as possible, but allowing Jester to roll in the same slot as Witch for example would create too much variance in a 7p game. So we have effectively been using the Neutral Subalignment Rearrangement in many of our setups. Since each individual slot is much more important in a smaller game, the impact of letting different types of roles spawn in the same slot would be much greater in small games. So if we were to formally test NSR, the results wouldn't be generalizable to full-size games. That being said, I agree with the change.

Out of the other two roles, I'll admit that I prefer Blacksmith. But Historian is definitely a solid role that can easily be nerfed if testing indicates that it is necessary. Historian gets less direct information about a specific player's alignment than other TI roles. When played correctly, it can determine the alignments of many players simultaneously, similar to Psychic but without the RNG. It can be played by targeting players it trusts and using logic to deduce who must be scum, but it would be massively damaging if it accidentally targets scum. It can also act like a Tacker and try to find players with unexpected or inconsistent visiting patterns. It can't target anyone more than once per game, which eliminates many of the cheaper OP strategies while preserving the concept of the role. If it is still OP, it can easily be nerfed by just letting it see if a target has visited scum.

Blacksmith is very similar to Doctor, but it is more versatile and has several unique drawbacks. Most importantly, the game might not last long enough for its heals to have any useful effect. Additionally, it can't stay on the Jailor and has to successfully watch someone die before being able to protect the Jailor or any other player. This makes the role more balanced compared to Doctor since it doesn't have distorted incentives. As Blacksmith, you want to target the player who is most likely to die that night or be lynched the next day. No matter what. If the role is still UP, let it protect itself. If it's OP, don't give it an autovest if it watches someone who is lynched.

/vote Historian
/vote Blacksmith

[Ezradekezra]

/vote Neutral Rearrangement

[cob709]

Voting

Historian by alex1234321