Episode XI | Rerolled (TrueGent wins!)

[Mroz4k]

I want to point out some things that pinged me in forgotten ISO.

Starting with how scumread on hark. He scumreaded him for his play style. Then forgotten said that mostly people who are likeable are townread, and that people who will not be likeable get misslynched. This seems to me rather opportunistic. It basically apologizes for misslynches in advance. Good way to say "oh they were being awful, it's not my fault they got mislynched!"

If I am not mistaken, he voted for Mela without much reasoning, and basically excused himself by saying mela caused her ML herself. I see rather opportunistic behavior.

Same with my accusation. He claims I never give reasons for my suspicion, and then literally omguses me without much sound reasoning of his own. Mostly he says I don't include proof but I hardly can, because quoting on phone to make a long ISO is borderline impossible.

He dislikes being pushed and rarely pushes others, and those he pushes are already pushed by others when he chips in. His behavior is not defensive but offensive.

Many of these things could be just extremely poor play. But I'd still suspect him well enough. His reasoning to vote me was riddiculous.

Next lynch, however, should be Zero if Alex is Maf. If not, Ladd is the lynch. But I doubt Alex is not Maf.

[Mroz4k]

I will vote if vote is not hammered and there is 8 or so hours left. I still have time to sleep and there may be some conversation to be done. But if I vote now, Alex will certainly quickhammer.

We should still discuss what to do during night.

I'd like Escorts to block people who they think will be controlled by Witch into Ladd. Just to lower potential casualties.

[Mroz4k]

For the time being it would be good if one more unvoted, still plenty of time left in day.

[Varanus]

Nice sextuple post

[ladd]

Nice sextuple post

I am better tbh

[ladd]

I'd like Escorts to block people who they think will be controlled by Witch into Ladd. Just to lower potential casualties.

No. Roleblock scum.

[ladd]

He dislikes being pushed and rarely pushes others, and those he pushes are already pushed by others when he chips in. His behavior is not defensive but offensive.

This doesn't make sense.

Anyway, Forgotten is not Mafia, they could be a Neutral I guess, but I have a pretty strong town read on them.

[Mroz4k]

I'd like Escorts to block people who they think will be controlled by Witch into Ladd. Just to lower potential casualties.

No. Roleblock scum.

Assuming we know any. If they have a good scum suspect, sure.

That's natural.

Nice sextuple post

Pls. That was nothing.

At times I'd make at least 10 to 12 in a row. Being on phone is a harsh limitation.

[Mroz4k]

How about some words of wisdom, opinions, Varanus?

This game is half filled with lamebrains, sure could use a fresh opinion or two.

[ladd]

Escorts should try to roleblock scum, there is no reason for them to try to roleblock "townies" who would maybe be controlled to me, when I honestly don't even know if I am gonna alert. That's dumb.

[ladd]

I will have a bit more time tomorrow to re read some stuff/associations if the game is not hammered, though I can do it overnight anyway, don't wait for me.

Night.

[Varanus]

Need to work things out with Gent here. Few issues came up.

[Varanus]

Yeah, things went wrong.

Sorry guys, I can't stay in the game.
Later.

[TheForgot3n1]

/unvote

I want to point out some things that pinged me in forgotten ISO.

Starting with how scumread on hark. He scumreaded him for his play style. Then forgotten said that mostly people who are likeable are townread, and that people who will not be likeable get misslynched. This seems to me rather opportunistic. It basically apologizes for misslynches in advance. Good way to say "oh they were being awful, it's not my fault they got mislynched!"

If I am not mistaken, he voted for Mela without much reasoning, and basically excused himself by saying mela caused her ML herself. I see rather opportunistic behavior.

Same with my accusation. He claims I never give reasons for my suspicion, and then literally omguses me without much sound reasoning of his own. Mostly he says I don't include proof but I hardly can, because quoting on phone to make a long ISO is borderline impossible.

He dislikes being pushed and rarely pushes others, and those he pushes are already pushed by others when he chips in. His behavior is not defensive but offensive.

Many of these things could be just extremely poor play. But I'd still suspect him well enough. His reasoning to vote me was riddiculous.

Next lynch, however, should be Zero if Alex is Maf. If not, Ladd is the lynch. But I doubt Alex is not Maf.

1. Hark had a similar tone and playstyle as in the only game I've played with him: VFM 2. What was here there? Scum. I have to admit, he fooled me there, and for some reason he killed me at night despite me having him as a pretty decent townread (about 3rd, other 2 higher were confirmed). Anyway, his way of overlooking what I said day1 did not ping me as town. I already made a few posts on why I thought Hark was a scumlean/nullscum. It's also one of those scenarios where I rather overcompensate my scumread on him in order to force a reaction I feel I can read, partially because he fooled me before. Anyway that was my read, now how is that AI?

2. Likeability is correlated to lynchability (let's just say that's a word). Likeable players are generally harder to push. It's basically a fact, especially among newer players and I and Hark talked about that, where I agree it's something you might need to train not to do, somewhat. I don't see how that is in any way AI to say.

3.

and basically excused himself by saying mela caused her ML herself

Give me a quote on this. I can't remember.

4.

and then literally omguses me without much sound reasoning of his own

I gave you sound reasoning, if you won't bother to look for it yourself, then I won't bother to quote it for you. Much of it is based on the idea of using your own alignment as leverage, which I don't see any issue with. To me, I am the only confirmed town in this game, so awkward pushes on me are especially scrutinized.

5.

Mostly he says I don't include proof but I hardly can, because quoting on phone to make a long ISO is borderline impossible.

Okay so don't make accusations on your phone. I have a samsung, and my answers to Samuel last 5 hours or so were all from phone. It is possible, and even if it wasn't, it's your responsibility to bring forth proof.

6. I don't mind being pushed when I think the push is logical and sound. Such as Samuel's initial scumlean on me for making stupid votes. That was rational to me, and actually part of the reason I townlean:ed him. But your pushes, they're ingenuine and biased, and I mentioned that earlier. I suspect Sam's recent pushes on me were due to having read the thread too little/feeling pressured himself.

7. How is voting ladd a push already being made by others? How is voting you a push already being made by others? How is voting Alex a push already made by others? Even going further back; how is Lexiam a push made by others, even though there was zero effort in that one? Almost all my pushes are made exclusively first by myself. Do you see how biased you are to not notice any of that?

----------------------------------------

Your case is full on holes. My case on you is based on ^ these accusations because that's what has pinged me about you. But let's ISO dive as well.

When I read your ISO, you look like a scum pushing everyone and everything not in his alignment. In your first big post you denounce three players. alouvre, ladd and ryanyb for pushing Mel. You also also say LoF's reasoning sucks. You townread Sam without quoting. "I think Kirize was jumping that vote as scum." You scumread Kirize, throwing dirt on him as well (who is likely Town by the looks of it). Then you paint Npromin1 and Lexiam as a scumteam, saying specifically Godfather + lesser mafia. After a brief joke vote on Alex (who is likely maf), your tunnel on me begins. You put up ISO on me, alouvre and ladd, then zero. You are quick to jump on LoF mafia-reading alouvre and ryan, and neutral-reading me. You protect Samuel, you don't push further on Alex. You specifically mention you're okay with a Zero lynch, and you also scumread ladd (who is likely town by the looks of it), ready to lynch him.

You're already sure on who you're going to push versus who you aren't. I can give posts and quotes on every single point above.

Compiled, you have scumread 6 players (ladd,kirize,npromin1,lexiam,Theforgot3n1,zero) and you've set yourself up to scumlean on alouvre/ryanyb/lof. You have 9 players to put your FoS on with a "case" on them previously. This is especially benefiicial to do as mafia, since it puts the attention on players other than the mafia team. But the most awkward thing is that you would expect town!mroz4, if he were to be this scumread-ish, to throw dirt on Samuel and Alex just as hard. But for some odd reason they're immune to it... hm when we see the flip on Alex I think it could be quite telling of the mafia team.

[Varanus]

So yeah, my parting words, since I never even had the chance to read the thread:
Blame Rhazh

[LordofFail]

Escorts should try to roleblock scum, there is no reason for them to try to roleblock "townies" who would maybe be controlled to me, when I honestly don't even know if I am gonna alert. That's dumb.

^

this

escorts should roleblock people they think they are scum. Witch might control anyone, but they will almost certainly control someone onto ladd.

[TrueGent]

Current Vote Count

Player	Votes	Voters
	#	Votes Until Majority

Eliah1102 will be replacing Varanus.

[LordofFail]

should we lynch alex now or is there more anyone wants to discuss?

[Mroz4k]

Don't matter to me none. I will go to sleep soon.

But I will be on in 8 hours or so so then I will vote if it's not hammered yet. Give you guys more time to read.

[TheForgot3n1]

Don't matter to me none. I will go to sleep soon.

But I will be on in 8 hours or so so then I will vote if it's not hammered yet. Give you guys more time to read.

And not a single word was mentioned about me. Rip scum mroz4k

[TheForgot3n1]

going to bed as well now. Night

[alouvre]

Apologies, I was busy the entire day and now I'm absolutely shitted out. I would like to put in a word or two before we hammer, but im unsure if I can get it out tonight. We'll see after I do housekeeping and shit, see ya

[PokemonKidRyan]

I want to point out some things that pinged me in forgotten ISO.

Starting with how scumread on hark. He scumreaded him for his play style. Then forgotten said that mostly people who are likeable are townread, and that people who will not be likeable get misslynched. This seems to me rather opportunistic. It basically apologizes for misslynches in advance. Good way to say "oh they were being awful, it's not my fault they got mislynched!"

If I am not mistaken, he voted for Mela without much reasoning, and basically excused himself by saying mela caused her ML herself. I see rather opportunistic behavior.

Same with my accusation. He claims I never give reasons for my suspicion, and then literally omguses me without much sound reasoning of his own. Mostly he says I don't include proof but I hardly can, because quoting on phone to make a long ISO is borderline impossible.

He dislikes being pushed and rarely pushes others, and those he pushes are already pushed by others when he chips in. His behavior is not defensive but offensive.

Many of these things could be just extremely poor play. But I'd still suspect him well enough. His reasoning to vote me was riddiculous.

Next lynch, however, should be Zero if Alex is Maf. If not, Ladd is the lynch. But I doubt Alex is not Maf.

1. Hark had a similar tone and playstyle as in the only game I've played with him: VFM 2. What was here there? Scum. I have to admit, he fooled me there, and for some reason he killed me at night despite me having him as a pretty decent townread (about 3rd, other 2 higher were confirmed). Anyway, his way of overlooking what I said day1 did not ping me as town. I already made a few posts on why I thought Hark was a scumlean/nullscum. It's also one of those scenarios where I rather overcompensate my scumread on him in order to force a reaction I feel I can read, partially because he fooled me before. Anyway that was my read, now how is that AI?

2. Likeability is correlated to lynchability (let's just say that's a word). Likeable players are generally harder to push. It's basically a fact, especially among newer players and I and Hark talked about that, where I agree it's something you might need to train not to do, somewhat. I don't see how that is in any way AI to say.

3.

and basically excused himself by saying mela caused her ML herself

Give me a quote on this. I can't remember.

4.

and then literally omguses me without much sound reasoning of his own

I gave you sound reasoning, if you won't bother to look for it yourself, then I won't bother to quote it for you. Much of it is based on the idea of using your own alignment as leverage, which I don't see any issue with. To me, I am the only confirmed town in this game, so awkward pushes on me are especially scrutinized.

5.

Mostly he says I don't include proof but I hardly can, because quoting on phone to make a long ISO is borderline impossible.

Okay so don't make accusations on your phone. I have a samsung, and my answers to Samuel last 5 hours or so were all from phone. It is possible, and even if it wasn't, it's your responsibility to bring forth proof.

6. I don't mind being pushed when I think the push is logical and sound. Such as Samuel's initial scumlean on me for making stupid votes. That was rational to me, and actually part of the reason I townlean:ed him. But your pushes, they're ingenuine and biased, and I mentioned that earlier. I suspect Sam's recent pushes on me were due to having read the thread too little/feeling pressured himself.

7. How is voting ladd a push already being made by others? How is voting you a push already being made by others? How is voting Alex a push already made by others? Even going further back; how is Lexiam a push made by others, even though there was zero effort in that one? Almost all my pushes are made exclusively first by myself. Do you see how biased you are to not notice any of that?

-----------------------

Your case is full on holes. My case on you is based on ^ these accusations because that's what has pinged me about you. But let's ISO dive as well.

Compiled, you have scumread 6 players (ladd,kirize,npromin1,lexiam,Theforgot3n1,zero) and you've set yourself up to scumlean on alouvre/ryanyb/lof. You have 9 players to put your FoS on with a "case" on them previously. This is especially benefiicial to do as mafia, since it puts the attention on players other than the mafia team. But the most awkward thing is that you would expect town!mroz4, if he were to be this scumread-ish, to throw dirt on Samuel and Alex just as hard. But for some odd reason they're immune to it... hm when we see the flip on Alex I think it could be quite telling of the mafia team.

I'm going to do a 1-7 of your points, Forgotten...
1 - That is sort of true. I had a look at both ISO's (from the different games)
2 - That is also true. People who are likeable are less likely to be lynched when there is no evidence against them. That's how Mroz won in a NFM as scum, because everyone believed him, as he's so likeable / renowned in FM.
3 - Neither can I. A quote would be useful.
4 - It's normally best if you quote it and maybe explain it in further detail. He might have just overlooked something
5 - Show your proof yourself too please. Quote more stuff yourself.
6 - Normally Mroz has some reasoning behind his pushes..... Maybe he's pushing you as a reaction test, or trying to get you to give more info / reads or even just post more.
7 - I see what you mean there and I think it's a fair point.

His case has some holes, but, full of holes, I don't know.
Yes, he has scumread / scumleaned on many players..... But, so what?
This isn't quite like town!mroz. However, it isn't fully like scum!mroz too. Scum mroz normally tries to lead the town as much as possible.
I'd lean slight town on mroz. But, I can see him being mafia, if he's scum.
I don't see him as a soloist this game from his posts.

Apologies, I was busy the entire day and now I'm absolutely shitted out. I would like to put in a word or two before we hammer, but im unsure if I can get it out tonight. We'll see after I do housekeeping and shit, see ya

This was the same as me. Sorry it took me so long to post.

[TheForgot3n1]

Well okay, I can quote my own, initial, reason for pushing Mroz4k. It was a "scumping" at first, and developed into what it is now. This is what pinged me

Can we take a look at this post?
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&p=1760691#p1760657

Did you really just say "if you townreaded me maybe I would have believed you more"?

Did you actually just try to sell your vote for a Towncred?

I am getting worse and worse opinion on this forgotten person. was somewhat decent at first but gradually got worse, says scummy shit but nobody pays attention to them. In case tinfoil hat is disproved, this guy could be Mafia too.

First he strangely misinterprets what I'm saying. The original meaning of what I said was pretty clear as well, I mean sure it can happen that you misunderstand it the way he did. But, this did not come across as a towny making a mistake by both the way he "recovered from it" (he never mentioned making the mistake) and the text itself. It's like it's specifically made to cast doubt on me. Two questions in a row on two paragraphs, I know I'm picky here but it looks like taken out of a mafiascum handbook for scum-accusations.

Also love how forgotten begs to be spared because they would flip Town, like if you were of any threat to him as a Vig in a game with Witch, bomber and 1-3 real roleblockers.

That plea of Town doesn't look very AI tho.

But it's mostly very bad or opportunistic reasonings, like your push on Ladd now for example. You cased his claim as a fakeclaim by scum (or Town, even worse) with only intention to push a single misslynch. On Kirize. An empty slot. Ladd Would literally hardclaim Scum if Kirize flips something not Night immune.

This is horribly bad reasoning. I'd understand this if we were in a MyLo or LyLo. Not on D3 when Town is off for a decent start.

Great plea, forgotten. You do acting? Well you do speak like a politician. You have to be confrontional in FM that's the whole point.

I would have to go through your ISO for specifics. I might do that later. Would help if I wasn't stuck on phone and could ISO few people. Build some cases.

Again, instead of recognizing he made a weird mistake, he continues on to mention random things that aren't even scummy, as if they were huge scumtells. These posts ring fake to me.

And that was what the initial push came from. No idea why he hasn't bothered to answer any of the responses I made back then.

[LordofFail]

I am replacing in for Var, can anyone fill me in on the important details?

You have heavy scumreads on you and some pretty substantial evidence has been shown. You're almost confirmed mafia really.

basically alex hard defended you and then scumslipped majorly.