Episode XI | Rerolled (TrueGent wins!)

[melanora]

Alou, I called Hark scum. I won't ask you to explain his actions because that's stupid. I still believe your slot is scum, but it has to do with Hark, not you. You, however, are better at this game than to do the reads you are, but that's not a valid reason to lynch you and give you an accusation that I require a defense for.

Also, kids, I'm still fucking mobile and out and about. I've given a defense, I've given a claim, I've answered your questions. At this point, this wagon is just a bunch of stupid sheep following the wolves.

[ryanyb]

also reminder to people, stick to your hypoclaims when possible. Another reason that I'm hoping she's neutral is because in my hypoclaim I say NS on her.

@Mel, you never answered Alou's direct questions poised against you. You also never responded to my accusation against your scum-slip response. I understand you're on mobile, so take your time, and we understand that you can't post much; you don't need to answer these right now, but don't act like you've covered even a few corners becuase quite frankly you haven't.

[ryanyb]

also reminder to people, stick to your hypoclaims when possible. Another reason that I'm hoping she's neutral is because in my hypoclaim I say NS on her.

@Mel, you never answered Alou's direct questions poised against you. You also never responded to my accusation against your scum-slip response. I understand you're on mobile, so take your time, and we understand that you can't post much; you don't need to answer these right now, but don't act like you've covered even a few corners becuase quite frankly you haven't.

If you'd like I can quote them for you.

[npromin1]

You can check my ISO. I never said anything about there being a mafioso for certain.

As for that post ryan said I probably misread:

I was referring to the top part of the post involving Mela not Misa. I'm gonna keep my point up there though.

[Lexiam]

Gonna vote for someone who i think is scum to me. Expect a vote from me before the day ends, but for now, im a lil busy with other stuff

[SamuelJackson1972]

ok james

I think Melanora is at most neutral scum, and even then I doubt that.
You see, there have been plenty of people flying under the radar that are more likely to be scum then them.
Now I'm not saying that the lynch is bad, I'm just saying that scum wouldn't want to be in the spotlight most of the time.

then why did you vote her instead of voting one of the people that are more likely to be scum, especially if you doubted whether she was scum? what players specifically are you talking about

It was part of the really shit reaction test I was talking about. ( ._.)
I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time, should have paid more attention.

[melanora]

Gonna vote for someone who i think is scum to me

Feels like a scumslip. Town always votes who they think is scum, so why would this need to be said?

As opposed to sheeping.

For simplicity so I can reply once I'm home, go for it, Ryan.

[Zero]

welcome toro to this Dysfunctional town. Please enjoy your stay.

[ryanyb]

N, I think you misinterpreted something. I think she was refering to herself as the inactive in the second point you made on her most recent wall. At least, that's how I took it.

OH AND WHILE IM AT IT, I FORGOT TO DISPROVE THAT POINT OF HERS of what I can only assume means that both me and hark were trying to get Misa ML'd.

More extensive fact checking (We need to get some sort of theme song or jingle for this. It's going to catch on, quote me on this.) I'm going to speak for myself because I have no clue what Hark was thinking:
Spoiler: So first off, we're completely avoiding the fact that there was a legitimate argument against Misa on day one. It's clear that they're a new player, so sure they get a bit of slack, but anyone can go scrolling through their ISO and see that something is up. Note that this is LONG BEFORE any inactivity issues began. N1 I peg them as scum.

D2 begins.
Hark votes Misa presumably becuase of D1 things. I get here, hypo, and vote Misa becuase of my reads. I had them very hesitantlt pegged as scum from D1 discussion. Pressure vote. Hark pressure Misa, but he's not here. Hark says dumb things like "misa prove to me that ur town by voting Lex" which I starkly disagreed with in thread. 3n1 then comes in and gives a scumlean read on Misa.
Hark pressure N to vote Misa, and N responds with a wall which franky is shit, and then votes misa. He says in the post that it's intended as a pressure vote to get Misa talking.
All the while I literally haven't even mentioned her name because I'm fed up with people talking about witch results.
I change my vote from Misa to Yau.
Hark continues to pressure Misa along with N who is very much so waggoning Misa at this point.
LoF disagrees with pushing some who is innactive. He makes the obvious but true point that pressure votes are only applicable if the person is actually there to see them.
Then I say this:

How many votes until lynch today btw?

Can you do something?
You're not really helping your position.

Instead of more people ganging up on Persian, how about you do something else useful and contribute in a helpful way rather than reiterating what people have been saying for the past multiple pages?

*Misa

So please Mel, do explain how I've been spearheading this with Hark and am scummy because of it.

[ryanyb]

Hmmmmmmm

Not sure how to get into this game, it's an annoying read and I doubt I will catch up before day ends.

Ryan, talk to me. How do you feel?

Like your slot was scummy and people waggoned it to hell and back even when your slot was innactive for two days straight. Not sure of your alignment nor do I particularly care right now.

[ryanyb]

You can check my ISO. I never said anything about there being a mafioso for certain.

You alluded to it here:

There's nothing wrong with thinking that the mafioso was controlled by a witch to kill someone

[alouvre]

to melanora: so you're giving me a free pass despite thinking I'm scum, because your case is mostly based off of my replacement's behaviour? sometimes a replacement is unable to defend against accusations towards the person they replaced, but I did because his behaviour seemed logical enough. I can understand why you wouldn't want to lynch someone who actually can't defend themselves because they have no basis to build on (see: toro) but I'm very capable of defending my slot and did so. what gives?

to toro: skim and stop to deep read when you catch something that interests you.

[npromin1]

You can check my ISO. I never said anything about there being a mafioso for certain.

You alluded to it here:

There's nothing wrong with thinking that the mafioso was controlled by a witch to kill someone

yeah and right after that i said gf too so yeah

[npromin1]

and both gf and mafioso are the two roles that normally take that kill so i dont think that really matters. my point was just saying whoever took the mafia kill.

[LordofFail]

I'm going to have to reread the last 10 pages or so probably later tonight or tomorrow so i can take notes n shit


@ryan (page 33 or 34)
All 3.

[TrueGent]

Ladd will be replacing ToroPicana.

[JazzMusicStops]

Ladd will be replacing ToroPicana.

Oh

[alouvre]

Ladd will be replacing ToroPicana.

[JazzMusicStops]

Jammy, do you have any other reads?

I'll type up a list some time tomorrow probably
IDK

Also can someone explain the mela wagon?
I'mma skim her ISO but I'm not feeling it atm

[ladd]

Ladd will be replacing ToroPicana.

You are about half of the reason I replaced into this, so don't let me down bb.

Help me get into this game, because right now I really don't feel like reading the thread and I tried. I promise I will be caught up by D3 or I will replace out though.

[alouvre]

you flatter me so
go iso mel or samuel or something idk

Also can someone explain the mela wagon?
I'mma skim her ISO but I'm not feeling it atm

to combine what I've seen with my own reasoning, she has been:

- acting uncharacteristic, via reads or general attitude
- not trying to lynch her scumreads
- misrepresenting people
- not acknowledging points directed towards her and instead responding with generic insults

ask for sources if you want

[ryanyb]

Compiled arguments (with sources!) against Melanora ANDquestions for her to answer when she has time

For simplicity's sake, im going to post the links to the posts that I want you to re-read/respond to, and any other arguments/posts that I would like for you to consider while responding. This is a REALLY fucking long wall, but I think it also encapsulates most of the town's arguments against Mel. I mostly quoted myself and Alou, but I believe anyone else that has spoken against her has their arguments represented somewhere within this wall. If you feel like I missed a source, or an argument, ADD IT. These aren't just my thoughts, it's many peoples. Be productive, don't just sit and react.

I beg all of you (including Ladd, sorry, you joined at a bad time LOL) to read all of this please. I understand it's a wall, and people naturally hate walls, but I put 2 hours of my time into this for a reason.


Spoiler: 1)
So, first off I want you to explain why you did nothing D1 except saying it wasn't scummy for James to claim.
It was clear you were reading the thread as shown by
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=125#p1736690
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=150#p1736822
and viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=150#p1736838
but you neglected to comment on anything. You refused to comment on Kirize vs Hark, you refused to comment on Misa etc. I need to know why you decided, uncharacteristically, to avoid nearly all game-related conversation on day one, which you continued to avoid as you started building reads in day two. Either explain why you were so quiet and evasive, or acknowledge that it is scummy that you avoided making any connections whatsoever like Rick from SFM17 where he acted confused and dissociated.

2) I need you to respond to a few things regarding this post:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=600#p1743154
in context of my response: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=650#p1743774
and the following:
By this point in time, I had removed my vote from Misa and placed it onto Yau who was active at the time. I had never tunneled anyone, especially not Misa, so your point that I was trying to wagon inactives is thereby null. It became obvious you were viewing me and hark as the same person, since you claimed that I was 'trying to grab everyone around them to get on' while hark was the one who started the Misa wagon, and no wagon ever formed on Yau and I had never intended to start one as made obvious by my lack of supporting evidence in that push. We had explained hypoclaiming but you never gave an opinion of it. You try to further slander me by saying im doing anything to start a wagon, which, again, is false taking a stroll through my ISO. I would like for you to either support what you claimed in this post, or rescind said argument, acknowledging it was reaching, narrow considering it was supposed to be a catch up post, and unnaturally pointed.

3) I would like to point some things out regarding this post, but I don't have any specific questions; respond if you feel like you have something to say on the matter/
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=700#p1744915
Unlike some others here, I don't consider that second responds (the one starting with "Because it used to") scummy. I do, however, find the line starting with "You should fear me" unsettling. It's attempting to draw a stark contrast between your gameplay this game and how others perceive your scum play. It's nothing horrible, but just another one of those one-liners you started scattering around. I'm happy with your next post though against Hark. While I don't necesarilly agree with the argument you're making (because I feel like anyone combing through Hark's ISO can pretty clearly see that you nitpicked one instance of him changing topic opposed to the 10's of other times he did).

4) Few things regarding this: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=725#p1746800
You say "It took you way too fucking long to respond to my accusation against you" to Hark. This is about 3 ish pages after you made the argument against Hark. All this time though, you never responded to my post (point 2 on this list). Very hypocritical.
You then avoid making a read on Yau like I had asked you to, with the line that begins with "I think that Hark and Yau". From my PoV at least, it's pretty clear that you don't want to make a read. Obviously someone who speaks more has more attention drawn to them, but that doesn't mean they're the only important peope in the game. You should know this.
Later down, in the paragraph you start with "I know exactly why", this entire thing is a bundle of hypocritical rhetoric. You had previously slandered Hark for making absolutes like the ones you were making in this post, even though the structure of your accusations mirrored his pretty closely, except yours had a bit more fluff text. You're ignoring the fact that for a few pages, all most of what was spoken about was mafia's choice of kill and the witch target, which Hark was involved in. (Pages 19 and 21 are okay'ish in terms of Hark's involvement). Honestly, do you think that someone would replace out just because you after not doing much, you accuse him of being scum? Even bringing that up is seeding and slander.
I want you to re-evaluate the argument you made against Hark here in light of ALL of the information in the thread up to this point (page 30), not just the handful you decided to read. After doing so, I want to hear if you agree with what you said, what you would change, and why. I also want to hear why you neglected to form a read on Yau. Me mentioning Yau to you could've been an opportunity for you to jump on me and try to accuse me of forming wagons on more inactive players, but instead you decided to just waive the question entirely. Why?

5) Mel, I need you to respond to this post from Alou which you neglected:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=775#p1748454
Respond to all of his points please, and make it clear which you are responding to so that we can track which you answer, and which you dodge.

6)A few things regarding this post: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=800#p1748848
Given the context that Alouvre and myself both added the following:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=800#p1748877
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=825#p1748882
I think everything I need you to answer is rather clearly articulated in Alou's post, but I would like you go into more detail about how that wasn't a scumslip in terms of my post there and the first paragraph in red here: http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=850#p1749676

7) There is a series of flawed posts in the past few pages which I have some questions regarding:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=900#p1750059
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=900#p1750113
and viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=900#p1750122
Regarding your first post there, I fact checked two of your primary claims there, 1. that you called me scum first, and 2. that me and hark were trying to lynch an inactive (what I presume was either you or misa, it wasn't clear in your post). My posts refuting these are here:http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=900#p1750086
and here: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=900#p1750186
respectively. I never did respond in the case that you were referencing yourself in that second point though, and were accusing us of trying to wagon and lynch you while you are inactive, in which case I would like to direct you to the following posts by myself and Alou: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=900#p1750132
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=875#p1749976
and viewtopic.php?f=17&t=52772&start=850#p1749849
In reference to the first post you made that I quoted here, I would like for you to acknowledge that both arguments you made here were faulty, only reinforced by the fact that I haven't spoken out against Lex as you so claimed. If you believe either of them still hold water, please explain.

Regarding your second post that I quoted here, can you clarify what you meant on the line that starts with ":You had me listed as scum when..." I just don't know what you were trying to say.

Regarding your third post, please correct me if I am wrong, but changing who is playing a slot doesn't change the alignment of that slot, no? So then explain how the first paragraph there, starting with "Alou, I called Hark scum. I won't..." is anything aside from fluff. If I am reading it correctly, it boils down to:
"You're scum, and I found out becuse of hark's play, not yours. You're a good player, and I wouldn't have caught you if hark was never in the slot to begin with. Sorry that you got unlucky with the slot. Even though you're scum, I'm not going to lynch you, because, even though I know hark was scum, and therefore by association you as well, you might not be scum"
Wat. How does this make any logical sense. To me it looks like you're trying to appeal to him somehow, but honestly it's so convoluted and logically flawed that I can't tell if that was even your intent. Would you please re-write this to make logical sense, and acknowledge that as written it is a contradiction.

Finally, a few overarching questions. Through this entire wall of mine, you referenced myself, Hark/Alou, Lex, LoF, and I think that you responded to something that Samuel said once. Your interactions with players has been painstakingly narrow and calculated. Please explain your hesitation to involve yourself with anyone except us five. The only push you made on a scumread was on hark which I feel I demonstrated was flawed. Instead of continuing that push on his slot, you gave Alouvre what appeared to be amnesty for reasons that I can't understand. You've been using faulty facts to back up your arguments, as I've shown. You've been dodging questions (I hope to alleviate that right now). Convince me that you aren't scum.

[ryanyb]

Holy fuck that wall is 1621 words long, not including words in the posts that I've linked. Oops.

[ladd]

you flatter me so
go iso mel or samuel or something idk

Sam reaction test looks fake and there was no point to it, I don't get why he didn't simply ask you about that and I just don't see where he wanted to go and why he would try to "bait you into answering". Rest of his posts are mostly useless or contradict themself, like that one post where he says Mel is at most a Neutral scum but he doubts it and that the lynch is not bad in the same post.

Mel has that "how would could you even think that? you are dumb" tone in basically everyone of their posts, which is annoying and overall their reads are confusing and not fluid, like the Hark read. The post where she says Alouvre is usually good at scumhunting, but they are being bad is not a sucmslip like Ryan said, as there are Neutrals, but it's something Town who actually has not faked reads rarely say. The explanation about the SK thing feels fake as well, it's a pretty twisted thought process.

Without much context this is what I got. Ok lynching both.

[ladd]

I want everyone who was scumreading my slot to explain why.

I am just gonna ISO some random people for now.