"Gamethrowing"

[swiggityswuttlet]

Got banned for gamethrowing. It was a game in which I was Mafia, and due to miscommunications, got another Mafia lynched. Essentially what happened was that me and Mafia Member 1 disagreed on how to go about the game plan. He wanted to claim Transporter but I prevented this as I knew this was a bad claim that would be found out easily and lead to him getting lynched. He interpreted this as gamethrowing even though I was acting in the best interest of the Mafia. In the whispers, he told me something along the lines of "if you gamethrow, I will gamethrow too". Unbeknownst to me, Mafia Member 2 was tricked by Jailor into outing me as being mafia in their whispers (an honest mistake by Mafia Member 2). Once Jailor had jailed me that night, he told me that my teammate had ratted me out and that it was unfortunate. Having received that "if you gamethrow, I will gamethrow too" whisper from Mafia Member 1 the day prior, I assumed he ratted me out to the Jailor in a whisper in an attempt to gamethrow. So to make sure he got reported for this, I identified him in my will so he could get reported. I did not intend to reveal an honest player's role, though I was inclined to since they told me they would gamethrow and then I was in a situation which seemed to be one of gamethrowing. This was just an honest mistake from Mafia Member 2 coupled with the strange threats of gamethrowing of Mafia Member 1 that led me to misinterpret the situation. My aim was to get a gamethrower reported, and to do that, they would have to be identified. I do not believe a ban is warranted for this.

[TrialBot]

Here are your reports:

• Gamethrowing
• Hate speech/Harassment
• Spamming
• Hate speech/Harassment

[Jerme]

Greetings,

please note that the Hypnotist was not a gamethrower, instead did you firstly ruin their claim and then outted them out of spite. That is gamethrowing.
The ban was issued since this is your fourth punishment.

[swiggityswuttlet]

I did not ruin (assuming you were trying to type "ruin") their claim, it was a strategy to get them to claim something other than Transporter because I knew this wasn't the best play for Mafia. A fake Transporter could easily be spotted, so I decided to make him switch up his claim so that he wouldn't be an obviously fake Transporter. It was a move designed to heighten our chances of winning, and thus, not gamethrowing.

Secondly, I did not out them "out of spite". I incorrectly believed that they were gamethrowing due to the overwhelming evidence suggesting so, so I told the rest of the Town who to report for said gamethrowing. It had nothing to do with spite, it was simply identifying a gamethrower to the rest of the players so that he could be reported to you guys. In this case, I was wrong about them gamethrowing. I admit that. But that mistake isn't gamethrowing. It's a mistake. Consider the context.

[Jerme]

You should have asked to report the suspected gamethrower at the end of the game, instead of during the game to fully reveal their identity.

[swiggityswuttlet]

Most people leave mid-game or immediately as the game ends. There would have been pretty much no one left to report them. Besides, if it really was a gamethrower, would revealing their identity even be an issue at that point? Someone seeking to ruin a gameplay experience would not even contribute to the game regardless of being revealed or not.

[Jerme]

You can not be fully sure if that was a 100% gamethrower and not a busser or similar. That aside does a posisble throw not allow you to do the same by spiterevealing a fellow mafia (spiterealing usually means ot out a mafia ember after one's death).

[swiggityswuttlet]

Again, it was not a reveal out of spite. It wasn't an act of "revenge" or "anger". Its intention was to identify and remove a gamethrower from the game, and thus was completely justified. Let's say a Mafia member was getting his own teammates killed by whispering their names to the Jailor. Do you really think the best course of action would be to just stay quiet and let the game play out with him eventually revealing all the members and completely ruining the game for everyone? That's just impractical. Obviously, any rational person would identify this gamethrowing behavior right away to prevent damage to the game's experience for everyone.

I've explained this line of reasoning to you multiple times and you still don't seem to be understanding the context at all. Can you have another moderator look into this for me?

[Flavorable]

Hi, other Moderator here. Now first and foremost, I'm not replying out of courtesy to you or because you asked for another Moderator, but solely because I happened upon your post.

Any form of outting your fellow evil faction members upon your death or after your death, especially when they did not break any rules is what we call "spite revealing". EVEN IF they break the rules, which they didn't (which you should have known, because not once did the person in question whisper the Jailor), one rulebreak would still not justify another. You either wait until the end of the game, or you wait until the player is dead.

There is no ifs, ands or buts in this situation: You don't out a fellow evil faction member unless you are bussing them in order to try to secure a win. That's it, that's all the leeway there is, no more, no less.

[swiggityswuttlet]

Seems like a flawed system because it would only discourage players from calling out other gamethrowers. "Wait until they finish ruining the game some more before calling them out on it". That's pretty much what I'm being told here. I can't think of another game that has this strict type of system that punishes the reporter more than the player who is reported, but I digress. If these are the types of rules you want to enforce, rules that seem to encourage malicious play rather than encourage players to call it out, then I suppose I will just play on my alternate account and use a VPN to evade IP ban.

Thanks for the reply, Flavorable.