Would this be considered gamethrowing?

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Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby BirdyThePhoenix » Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:51 am

So I had a game where I was the lookout. I was confirmed town along with jailor, and we were both leading the town. At the end of the game, the jailor was bitten and it was me versus two vampires. They were going to lynch me, but I told them that they should bite me. In two days time I was bitten and we won the game.
Would this be considered gamethrowing? If it is, I sincerely apologize for throwing the game.
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby Nellyfox » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:01 am

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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby Mroz4k » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:17 am

This is definitedly not game-throwing. In fact, if we go for the more broad "definition" of game-throwing as "playing to win", not trying to convince them to let you join up, and just giving up would technically be "game-throwing" (though in this case it would be more of a bad play, not trying to win when they still have a chance.)

Its technically going "against your role´s winning conditions" but if you remember, this rule no longer applies when you have 0% chance to win (as a Town, at least) and this seems to be the case.

Nellyfox wrote:https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=32989

Yes.


I dissagree with you, Nelly. This is definitedly not game-throwing.
In fact, it was Birdy´s only way to take a victory. She was a Lookout, versus two Vampires. They were either going to lynch her, or bite her - and so convincing them to bite her instead was the right thing to do. It was the only way to join the winning team.

The example you included, was a case of 2 Town members vs a Vampire, where one Town member sacrificed the other Town member in order to help Vampires win.
That was game-throwing - as they were supposed to win with the Town by hanging a Vampire, but ended up hanging their fellow Town member to join up with Vampires.
They had a choice to win as a Town and didnt take it. Birdy didnt have a choice in this matter - it was either game lost as Town, or win as Vampire.
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FM history:
Spoiler: NFM4 - Lookout - W
NFM7 - Consort - L (so close tho)
FM8D - Cit+ to Sheriff - W
FM9C - Cit - L (epicly failed)
CFM hydra 2 - Medium with Varanus - W
SFM17 - Caporegime - W
FM9D - Serial Killer - W (epicly :D)
SFM14 - Bodyguard-ish role - modkilled, caused MyLo FTW - W?
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby Nellyfox » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:33 am

I mean, I'm going off Brandon's word - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=32989#p988774

Course on the same subject, but. Something as a whole with vampire conversions to win doesn't sit right with me. I'd rather be lynched and lose with my faction than get an undeserved victory.
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby Someguyinabobz » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:23 pm

Nellyfox wrote:Course on the same subject, but. Something as a whole with vampire conversions to win doesn't sit right with me. I'd rather be lynched and lose with my faction than get an undeserved victory.


Isnt that gamethrowing to yourself since your purposly losing?
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby Mroz4k » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:56 pm

Nellyfox wrote:I mean, I'm going off Brandon's word - https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/v ... 89#p988774

Course on the same subject, but. Something as a whole with vampire conversions to win doesn't sit right with me. I'd rather be lynched and lose with my faction than get an undeserved victory.

I kind of understand that too.

However in this case I think it depends on the amount of Town left in the game and amount of Vampires.

I still think there should be some sort of timer, for how long you need to be a Vampire to be considered for Vampire winning conditions, then again that would ruin Vamps life (new Vamps would side with Town).
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FM history:
Spoiler: NFM4 - Lookout - W
NFM7 - Consort - L (so close tho)
FM8D - Cit+ to Sheriff - W
FM9C - Cit - L (epicly failed)
CFM hydra 2 - Medium with Varanus - W
SFM17 - Caporegime - W
FM9D - Serial Killer - W (epicly :D)
SFM14 - Bodyguard-ish role - modkilled, caused MyLo FTW - W?
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby ChamAlien » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:16 pm

It is not gamethrowing.
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby Mindslayer » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:04 pm

I don't think so. As town, it's clear that you lost. Why not take a win with the other side?
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby StlnSP » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:06 pm

Yes. I mean, you're going against your goal as a townie.

this is also what i hate about vampires.
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby BirdyThePhoenix » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:50 pm

I'm so confused I have mixed answers
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby Ansem555 » Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:26 pm

I'm of the camp who thinks that whether you asked or not, they aren't obligated to turn you and could have lynched you. If they want to be nice cause you asked and had already lost, I don't think there's any harm done. They could have said "Ha ha, no." and lynched you on the spot.

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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby ChamAlien » Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:49 pm

It is not gamethrowing. You can choose who should win.
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby BirdyThePhoenix » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:26 am

Does anyone have a concrete answer on whether this is gamethrowing or not?
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby Mroz4k » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:34 am

StlnSP wrote:Yes. I mean, you're going against your goal as a townie.

this is also what i hate about vampires.


Its not going against against your role´s winning conditions, when you cannot win anymore. No matter what you do, you loose as a Town.
If you were the last Town member, and you were against SK and Mafia, you can choose whom to help win. Because you no longer have
obligation to win the game as a Town, because you cannot. Since in this case, you dont have a chance to win, it is not against your role´s
winning conditions.

This is definitedly not game-throwing, Birdy. It is an undeserved victory, true, but its not going against your role´s winning conditions.
If it was, then by the same ideology, you would not be allowed to choose who wins the game in a SK vs GF vs Lookout situation.
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FM history:
Spoiler: NFM4 - Lookout - W
NFM7 - Consort - L (so close tho)
FM8D - Cit+ to Sheriff - W
FM9C - Cit - L (epicly failed)
CFM hydra 2 - Medium with Varanus - W
SFM17 - Caporegime - W
FM9D - Serial Killer - W (epicly :D)
SFM14 - Bodyguard-ish role - modkilled, caused MyLo FTW - W?
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby yousername » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:04 am

Naru2008 wrote:This has already been answered, but some people obviously don't seem to understand English.

"Role conditions" are the conditions you are given at the start of the game with your role card. You follow them. Nothing else.

Town is a team-effort, like Mafia. If the rest of Town died, and there were 2 left, with a Vampire, those two should lynch the Vampire. That is their goal. To let the Vampire convert them to take away the win deserved by the Town, is gamethrowing.

There is no Gray Area here, and to be bluntly honest, this isn't up for discussion, as now a second staff member has stated it's gamethrowing, and you are not to do it. End of discussion.


I think what they're trying to say is "Your goal is to kill all of the vampires, not become one of them. Going against your original goal in any case is gamethrowing."
You could argue all day whether or not it is gamethrowing, but BMG staff themselves have stated that it is gamethrowing.
Sure, you had no possible chance of winning, but let's see how they feel whenever you get reported.
Last edited by yousername on Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby BirdyThePhoenix » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:05 am

yousername wrote:
Naru2008 wrote:This has already been answered, but some people obviously don't seem to understand English.

"Role conditions" are the conditions you are given at the start of the game with your role card. You follow them. Nothing else.

Town is a team-effort, like Mafia. If the rest of Town died, and there were 2 left, with a Vampire, those two should lynch the Vampire. That is their goal. To let the Vampire convert them to take away the win deserved by the Town, is gamethrowing.

There is no Gray Area here, and to be bluntly honest, this isn't up for discussion, as now a second staff member has stated it's gamethrowing, and you are not to do it. End of discussion.


Any questions?

This was a different situation. It was 2 vampires vs 1 town
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby yousername » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:07 am

I just edited it, reread it for me
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby yousername » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:08 am

I think that this is what they were referring to when they said "no gray area"
Asking to be converted in any case is gamethrowing

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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby BirdyThePhoenix » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:10 am

Since this is an entirely different situation, I would actually like a developer or something to have a specific reply for this situation.
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby shapesifter13 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:35 pm

This isn't gamethrowing, you lost no matter what happened. If there was any chance you could win, then this would have been gamethrowing.
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby Mroz4k » Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:29 am

shapesifter13 wrote:This isn't gamethrowing, you lost no matter what happened. If there was any chance you could win, then this would have been gamethrowing.


Thank you, for re-confirming what I was trying to explain.

It couldnt be game-throwing if you cannot actually "throw" the game for everyone else. In this case, Town lost, that was sure thing.
If Birdy was in position to lynch the Vampire, and win the game as Town, she would have to do that. Not doing so is game-throwing, because
you would be screwing all the people in the graveyard who worked hard for their victory.

Going to quote TP on his definition of what is "game-throwing", in case someone was still not getting this:

TurdPile wrote:Gamethrowing = Intentionally trying to lose

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=14540

You cant be "intentionally trying to lose" when you lost already as that allignment.
Away in the real world most of the time, but I return from time to time, at my own whim.


FM history:
Spoiler: NFM4 - Lookout - W
NFM7 - Consort - L (so close tho)
FM8D - Cit+ to Sheriff - W
FM9C - Cit - L (epicly failed)
CFM hydra 2 - Medium with Varanus - W
SFM17 - Caporegime - W
FM9D - Serial Killer - W (epicly :D)
SFM14 - Bodyguard-ish role - modkilled, caused MyLo FTW - W?
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby acire » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:44 pm

Isn't the goal of Vampire to bite as many town as possible to get the win? I don't see how biting a townie would be considered game-throwing. If you're bitten, your winning conditions change, so....and there's just 1 townie. It could be an undeserved win, though.
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby Mroz4k » Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:32 am

acire wrote:Isn't the goal of Vampire to bite as many town as possible to get the win? I don't see how biting a townie would be considered game-throwing. If you're bitten, your winning conditions change, so....and there's just 1 townie. It could be an undeserved win, though.


Thats not the issue here. The Vampires were not game-throwing, thats sure.

We are talking about Birdy, hypothetically being a Lookout in scenario of three people left - Birdy as Lookout vs 2 Vampires.

The issue was if Birdy was game-throwing - she was a Lookout, and asked the Vampires to turn her into a Vampire rather then lynch her, so she can win with the Vampires, rather then Town which was her initial allignment.
Away in the real world most of the time, but I return from time to time, at my own whim.


FM history:
Spoiler: NFM4 - Lookout - W
NFM7 - Consort - L (so close tho)
FM8D - Cit+ to Sheriff - W
FM9C - Cit - L (epicly failed)
CFM hydra 2 - Medium with Varanus - W
SFM17 - Caporegime - W
FM9D - Serial Killer - W (epicly :D)
SFM14 - Bodyguard-ish role - modkilled, caused MyLo FTW - W?
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Re: Would this be considered gamethrowing?

Postby acire » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:40 pm

Mroz4k wrote:
acire wrote:Isn't the goal of Vampire to bite as many town as possible to get the win? I don't see how biting a townie would be considered game-throwing. If you're bitten, your winning conditions change, so....and there's just 1 townie. It could be an undeserved win, though.


Thats not the issue here. The Vampires were not game-throwing, thats sure.

We are talking about Birdy, hypothetically being a Lookout in scenario of three people left - Birdy as Lookout vs 2 Vampires.

The issue was if Birdy was game-throwing - she was a Lookout, and asked the Vampires to turn her into a Vampire rather then lynch her, so she can win with the Vampires, rather then Town which was her initial allignment.



Then no, I don't believe the Lookout was gamethrowing. I'm not sure how I got my previous facts in my last post, I guess I wasn't paying much attention to the original post, LOL. But considering town had a 0% chance of winning, Birdy technically wasn't throwing the town's win.
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