Flavorable wrote:Some quick info:
- Jailor has an unstoppable attack, not a powerful one.
- Jailor does not give defense, Jailor negates abilities of those visited the jailee.
- A GA heal is the exception, however, it does not give defense, it heals. Therefor, the attack still happens, but the attacked gets healed. GA is the only one that can heal from unstoppable direct attacks (so not from Arson ignite, or Hex Master's final attack, since those are passive attacks).
I suggest reading the rolecards and extended information about defense/attack values and game mechanics here: https://town-of-salem.fandom.com/wiki/Roles
Flavorable wrote:Some quick info:
- Jailor has an unstoppable attack, not a powerful one.
- Jailor does not give defense, Jailor negates abilities of those visited the jailee.
- A GA heal is the exception, however, it does not give defense, it heals. Therefor, the attack still happens, but the attacked gets healed. GA is the only one that can heal from unstoppable direct attacks (so not from Arson ignite, or Hex Master's final attack, since those are passive attacks).
I suggest reading the rolecards and extended information about defense/attack values and game mechanics here: https://town-of-salem.fandom.com/wiki/Roles
ScarfVendetta wrote:There is no mention that a Guardian Angel can protect against a Jailor's execution (only that their ability ignores jail, which is different). There is also no mention that a Guardian Angel's protection gives immunity to being voted and lynched the next day.
Harryyoshi wrote:It makes way more sense for Jailor to have a Powerful attack instead of a Unstoppable. I know it says Unstoppable, and what I am trying to propose is that Jailor has a Powerful attack mechanically. It probably says that to prevent confusion on why Jailor is able to attack through the defense they give.
Brilliand wrote:Jailor can kill through jailing, and also through the Trapper's traps. I suppose you could call the Jailor's attack a "powerful attack that ignores all protective abilities", but that's... exactly what an Unstoppable attack is (since no role has passive Powerful defense)
Brilliand wrote:Actually... yeah, that does hold together.
Jailing gives Powerful defense against all incoming visits only (not against indirect things like Bodyguard/Veteran).
Jailor's execute performs a Veteran-like passive Powerful attack against all jailed people (which is a big WTF).
cob709 wrote:it's a bug, developers will change it soon
cob709 wrote:it's a bug, developers will change it soon
harryyoshi wrote:Plus, maybe Jailor always had a Powerful attack, and it didn't matter until Guardian Angel was added.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.
Joacgroso wrote:cob709 wrote:it's a bug, developers will change it soon
Is that confirmed? GA's rolecard says that their protection ignores jail, which points to the feature being intentional.harryyoshi wrote:Plus, maybe Jailor always had a Powerful attack, and it didn't matter until Guardian Angel was added.
But the rolecard lists it as unstoppable.
It's not a bug, it's a feature
cob709 wrote:There are a bunch of "exception" rulesfor example: transporter/veteran/escort/consort/CL cannot be roleblocked, unless they are being roleblocked by a jailor or pirate
another example: jailed players cannot be killed unless it's by a jester haunt, Juggernaut(Level 3), Pestilence, or Bodyguard(Counter Attack)
Brilliand wrote:cob709 wrote:There are a bunch of "exception" rulesfor example: transporter/veteran/escort/consort/CL cannot be roleblocked, unless they are being roleblocked by a jailor or pirate
another example: jailed players cannot be killed unless it's by a jester haunt, Juggernaut(Level 3), Pestilence, or Bodyguard(Counter Attack)
For the first, you just have two different roleblock types there (I'm not sure Pirate actually roleblocks harder than Escort does, but I know Jailor has a special "different thing than a roleblock").
Jailed player cannot be killed by Pestilence, unless rampage attacks have this effects when a jailed SK attacks the Jailor (I'm not sure).
cob709 wrote:Yep, that's the point.
Brilliand wrote:cob709 wrote:Yep, that's the point.
You're acting like there are a bunch of exception rules all over the place, but the specifics you're pointing out are all about the Jailor role (and most of them are not exceptions if you know the 'general rule' of how Jailor works).
kyuss420 wrote:view defence as a stat.... some roles have basic defence, some roles have no defence (Pestilence has unstoppable defence) This changes depending on what happens during the night and what other players abilities were used on you.
some roles increase the defence stat of other roles to powerful, when they visit someone.... Doctor, Crusader, PM using heal potion. A ''heal'' is just a defence stat boost for 1 night. A crusader ''protect'' is just a stat boost for 1 night.
BG and Trapper give no defence stat boost. BG and trapper redirect 1 attack (2 simultaneous attacks on the BGs/Trappers target will still result in the target being killed, by 1 of the attackers) hence them protecting from a jailed SK/WW....the attack is redirected away from their target (the jailor).
Jailor gives no defence boost at all, but blocks all visits to the player they have jailed (with a fully powered up Jugg being an exception, as it bypasses all defence mechanisms) So jailor basically roleblocks anyone trying to target their target.... hence ''your ability failed...'' message. Since doctor/crusader couldnt target the player, the defence stat isnt boosted, so the execution goes through.
GA doesnt visit while protecting, so the ability to protect their charge still happens, as they werent roleblocked by their target being jailed, jailor had no effect on a non visiting player. The jailed players defence was boosted to the same stat as the jailors attack, so the attack is blocked is by the players defence.
And in the end, it all comes down to priority order. Many roles have multiple abilities combined into 1 ability, jailor, for example, has a jailing ability and an executing ability. While his jailing ability is priority no.1, his executing ability is not. His executing ability can be RBed, redirected by witch/CL and guarded against by a GA, so clearly GA has a higher priority than a jailors execution ability, just like escort, consort, witch, CL, ret. Which is totally understandable for a role with only 2 protections and completely different win conditions than any other role in the game.
All of the protection abilities in the game have a higher priority than the attacking abilities
cob709 wrote:im pretty sure that there are a bunch of hidden mechanics, some are more common than others, which is why they arent explained or very well-known
There are a bunch of "exception" rulesfor example: transporter/veteran/escort/consort/CL cannot be roleblocked, unless they are being roleblocked by a jailor or pirate
another example: jailed players cannot be killed unless it's by a jester haunt, Juggernaut(Level 3), Pestilence, or Bodyguard(Counter Attack)
As a wise man once saidIt's not a bug, it's a feature
I guess GA and Jailor just have a lot of special properties that result in having a bunch of "exception" rules
Harryyoshi wrote:Transporter/Veteran/Escort/Consort/CL cannot be role blocked because they have higher priority and cannot be role blocked or else the game will break.
Brilliand wrote:Just an aside: Veteran in particular is roleblock-immune for the sake of balance, not because there would be any sort of mechanical contradiction if the Veteran got roleblocked.
Brilliand wrote:Harryyoshi wrote:Transporter/Veteran/Escort/Consort/CL cannot be role blocked because they have higher priority and cannot be role blocked or else the game will break.
Just an aside: Veteran in particular is roleblock-immune for the sake of balance, not because there would be any sort of mechanical contradiction if the Veteran got roleblocked.
kyuss420 wrote:priorities dude. If he wasnt RB immune, he also wouldnt be control immune, it could possibly even mess with the priority that he gains defence for all we know.....the defence probly has a higher priority than the RB immunity, So he would gain defence before he gets RBed and the game wouldnt know if he alerted or not
Harryyoshi wrote:Now that I have explained why Veteran shouldn't be role block immune and why they shouldn't be able to be controlled into alerting, another explanation (and the one I think is the right one) is that Veteran has a pseudo day-ability. What does this mean? It basically means you get the option of becoming a rampager for one night, just you can only stay at home and not target anyone. This means that Veteran has the same priority as Transporter, which they do. This makes perfect sense because it's kind of like a Werewolf choosing which nights they want to be able to rampage, except in this case, it is only pseudo and they will not be able to choose a target because of this.
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