Please stop making every role op

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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby KAKERMAN23 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:18 am

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as has been said so many times, classic is NOT WHAT THE GAME IS BALANCED AROUND. try playing ranked or ranked practice for a while, and see how the way people play and how roles interact with each other is very different from classic.
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby dolphina » Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:41 am

There's just a point where we've gone completely off-topic to distract from the fact that you are a dumbass. Logic is kicking in, I will not argue with someone who refuses to accept any kind of argument. I'll attempt to reconcile here.

Classic is a mode specifically designed for newbies. You may think it's the fucking Holy Grail of gamemodes, but that's the truth. Classic is not where the majority of the game's balancing efforts goes into. The majority of effort is put towards Ranked/Ranked Practice. You are allowed to have opinions, such as "Classic is my favorite gamemode." But saying "Classic is the objectively best gamemode" or trying to convince us that Classic is the only good gamemode is not going to work. So, please stop. I would prefer this locked.
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby Amythyr » Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:36 am

dolphina wrote:There's just a point where we've gone completely off-topic to distract from the fact that you are a dumbass.
....snip


It is better to stop posting instead of continuing to argue. This way you won't get that much frustrated. Also it is better not to resort to name calling.
Just state your opinion and move on.

@OP
While the game is not balanced around classic as it isn't a competitive mode. The role should be balanced in every mode except all any(as it is inherently unbalanced).
An overpowered role isn't that much of a big deal either. Just look at coven where both coven and town roles are overpowered.

Instead of ranting here, it would be better to post a thread containing your criticism, on how issue should be solved etc in feedback forum. You should also consider that not everyone will think like you and should respect their opinion.
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby TheFluffyWaffleV2 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:22 pm

I only go in Classic if I'm on a losing streak because I can get an easy win there
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby CheezePie » Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:11 am

Classic is a gamemode that basically doesn't exist to me.
I rarely touch it. Maybe I'll join a classic game for the lols and regret it.
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby PrincessDespair » Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:23 pm

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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby OreCreeper » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:49 pm

OxbowSnake25 wrote:
ScarfVendetta wrote:
OxbowSnake25 wrote:did you not listen
classic is not for learning as its the only good gamemode you want learn session go on something else. classic is not for learning videos. now stop ignoring my facts

The in-game description describes Classic as "a game mode usually for beginners". The small variety of roles and the very fixed role-list makes it suitable for new players to learn the mechanics. Major balance changes are primarily aimed at balancing more competitive gamemodes, although this isn't to say that Classic is unimportant.

You have not provided any facts as to why you feel these changes are unsuitable for Classic, either.


1. Yes it says that, but does anyone play it because of that, no they play it because its better than custom,ranked,and all the damn rest. 99% of people play it not because their beginners

doctor - when you attack someone healed by doctor, you never had the immune message, why the fuck add that. you basically making it impossible to find immune people. like sk godfather executioner.
Serial killer - killing escort and the intended target is over powered. escort is supposed to roleblock, the old ability made way more sense for sk, where they only killed the escort, and making the will all bloody ruins the point in trying to find sk.
retributionist - it was better to ressurrect than be able to use abilities from the dead people you raise from the dead which not you dont even do.
Lookout - i perfer the new abilities.

but i dont play coven because noone plays it unless its free

If you have buffed all the roles i liked being buff up medium, as its shit, everyone still damn leaves

id play the other gamemodes but nearly everyone there random lynch/vetbait/random shoot and execute. where on classic they dont do much of that

By "random lynch" I'm guessing you mean vfr, and by "random shoot/exe" I'm guessing you mean killing someone they scumread as evil? Yeah in classic everyone just sits around and does nothing until d4, when TIs find info they dont share it because "if they do they might get targetted". But I guess you're one of those people who'd rather sit around and do nothing and when someone tries to get info, you go "no random lynching" even though vfr =/= random lynch. Yeah we know you suck, but you could've at least tried to hide it.
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby Joacgroso » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:43 pm

OreCreeper wrote:By "random lynch" I'm guessing you mean vfr, and by "random shoot/exe" I'm guessing you mean killing someone they scumread as evil? Yeah in classic everyone just sits around and does nothing until d4, when TIs find info they dont share it because "if they do they might get targetted". But I guess you're one of those people who'd rather sit around and do nothing and when someone tries to get info, you go "no random lynching" even though vfr =/= random lynch. Yeah we know you suck, but you could've at least tried to hide it.

Actually, the game kinda encourages this kind of behavior. Just look at sheriff's description: "you are the law enforcer of the town, forced into hiding from threat of murder". With descriptions like that, no wonder why many newbies think hiding is a good strategy.
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby TheFluffyWaffleV2 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:34 pm

Joacgroso wrote:
OreCreeper wrote:By "random lynch" I'm guessing you mean vfr, and by "random shoot/exe" I'm guessing you mean killing someone they scumread as evil? Yeah in classic everyone just sits around and does nothing until d4, when TIs find info they dont share it because "if they do they might get targetted". But I guess you're one of those people who'd rather sit around and do nothing and when someone tries to get info, you go "no random lynching" even though vfr =/= random lynch. Yeah we know you suck, but you could've at least tried to hide it.

Actually, the game kinda encourages this kind of behavior. Just look at sheriff's description: "you are the law enforcer of the town, forced into hiding from threat of murder". With descriptions like that, no wonder why many newbies think hiding is a good strategy.

No joke. People actually say “If I claim I’ll die” and ACTUALLY ARE TOWN
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby orangeandblack5 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:53 pm

OxbowSnake25 wrote:i play classic, because its the only good gamemode.

Excuse me what
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby Ezradekezra » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:00 pm

OxbowSnake25 wrote:but i dont play coven because noone plays it unless its free

If nobody plays Coven, then how am I able to consistently get into Coven All Any and Lovers games? Or are you specifically talking about Coven Classic...
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby TheFluffyWaffleV2 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:29 pm

Ezradekezra wrote:
OxbowSnake25 wrote:but i dont play coven because noone plays it unless its free

If nobody plays Coven, then how am I able to consistently get into Coven All Any and Lovers games? Or are you specifically talking about Coven Classic...

Coven ranked :lol:
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby Ezradekezra » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:32 pm

TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:
Ezradekezra wrote:
OxbowSnake25 wrote:but i dont play coven because noone plays it unless its free

If nobody plays Coven, then how am I able to consistently get into Coven All Any and Lovers games? Or are you specifically talking about Coven Classic...

Coven ranked :lol:

Idk how but I somehow managed to make it through all 10 Coven Ranked Practice games a while back. I've never played a single Coven Ranked game though.
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby CheezePie » Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:33 am

TheFluffyWaffleV2 wrote:
Ezradekezra wrote:
OxbowSnake25 wrote:but i dont play coven because noone plays it unless its free

If nobody plays Coven, then how am I able to consistently get into Coven All Any and Lovers games? Or are you specifically talking about Coven Classic...

Coven ranked :lol:

Coven :lol:
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby OreCreeper » Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:37 pm

Joacgroso wrote:
OreCreeper wrote:By "random lynch" I'm guessing you mean vfr, and by "random shoot/exe" I'm guessing you mean killing someone they scumread as evil? Yeah in classic everyone just sits around and does nothing until d4, when TIs find info they dont share it because "if they do they might get targetted". But I guess you're one of those people who'd rather sit around and do nothing and when someone tries to get info, you go "no random lynching" even though vfr =/= random lynch. Yeah we know you suck, but you could've at least tried to hide it.

Actually, the game kinda encourages this kind of behavior. Just look at sheriff's description: "you are the law enforcer of the town, forced into hiding from threat of murder". With descriptions like that, no wonder why many newbies think hiding is a good strategy.

Yeah the role descriptions and ingame tips should be tweaked, because right now they encourage sub-optimal plays.
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby Joacgroso » Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:42 pm

What other descriptions suggest sub-optimal plays?
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby KAKERMAN23 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:40 am

veteran: "A paranoid war hero who will shoot anyone who visits him."
this one isn't problematic, but it implies that veteran has infinite alerts

vigilante: "A militant officer willing to bend the law to enact justice."
this one, to someone who was completely new to the game, could imply that it's okay to shoot a confirmed townie if the vigi thinks they aren't helping town or something like that

crusader: "A divine protector whose skills in combat are only matched by the miracles he performs."
while it doesn't necessarily encourage bad plays, it implies that the crusader's combat abilities are somehow better than, say, a bodyguard, and that the crusader can perform miracles, both of which are untrue. it also doesnt say anything about how the crusader can fuck up, which i really think it should (something like "a divine protector who will stop at nothing to protect his target" idk)

ambusher: "A stealthy killer who lies in wait for the perfect moment to strike."
this is incorrect, the ambusher is not stealthy

juggernaut: "An unstoppable force that only gets stronger with each kill."
jugg isnt unstoppable until his third kill

in conclusion: the vigi and the sheriff are the only problematic ones
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby Joacgroso » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:18 pm

I think most of those descriptions are fine. You're just exxagerating. Saying that the vet will shoot everyone who visits him makes sense because newbies could believe vets only shoot evils. They will realize they can only alert 3 times as soon as night 1 starts.
I don't see a problem to the vigi one. By bending the law, I think it means killing without needing anyone else's vote. Their rolecard says that killing a townie results in your death.
A newbie wouldn't know how a bodyguard works, but even then, reading the rolecard will just teach him the basics. By performing miracles, it probably means saving lives at night. I agree that it should say something about crusaders being able to kill town, though. Maybe "a divine protector that will attack anyone who visits his target". Your suggestion is too similar to executioner's summary.
The ambusher summary also encourages players to stay home, which is weird. I think that one should be changed.
Juggernaut's summary is wrong, but anyone who reads the rolecard will realize it, so it isn't a problem.

Anoter slightly problematic description is doctor's, which implies docs should stay hidden "you are a surgeon specialized in trauma care who secretly heals people". The same could go for bodyguard's "you are an ex soldier who secretly makes a living by selling protection".
One summary I never liked was transporter's. Although it doesn't have a problem gameplay-wise, I feel that it doesn't represent the role right, since it implies he is hired by other people rather than kindapping them by force. Something similar happens to bodyguard. But trans's description makes the role seem a lot weaker than what it actually is.
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby OxbowSnake25 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:26 am

dolphina wrote:
OxbowSnake25 wrote:
ScarfVendetta wrote:
OxbowSnake25 wrote:did you not listen
classic is not for learning as its the only good gamemode you want learn session go on something else. classic is not for learning videos. now stop ignoring my facts

The in-game description describes Classic as "a game mode usually for beginners". The small variety of roles and the very fixed role-list makes it suitable for new players to learn the mechanics. Major balance changes are primarily aimed at balancing more competitive gamemodes, although this isn't to say that Classic is unimportant.

You have not provided any facts as to why you feel these changes are unsuitable for Classic, either.


1. Yes it says that, but does anyone play it because of that, no they play it because its better than custom,ranked,and all the damn rest. 99% of people play it not because their beginners

doctor - when you attack someone healed by doctor, you never had the immune message, why the fuck add that. you basically making it impossible to find immune people. like sk godfather executioner.
Serial killer - killing escort and the intended target is over powered. escort is supposed to roleblock, the old ability made way more sense for sk, where they only killed the escort, and making the will all bloody ruins the point in trying to find sk.
retributionist - it was better to ressurrect than be able to use abilities from the dead people you raise from the dead which not you dont even do.
Lookout - i perfer the new abilities.

but i dont play coven because noone plays it unless its free

If you have buffed all the roles i liked being buff up medium, as its shit, everyone still damn leaves

id play the other gamemodes but nearly everyone there random lynch/vetbait/random shoot and execute. where on classic they dont do much of that


In classic they lynch Jailor claims with no cces


no in classic people claim d1 as jailor we never ever vote jailor! gets your facts right

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KAKERMAN23 wrote:veteran: "A paranoid war hero who will shoot anyone who visits him."
this one isn't problematic, but it implies that veteran has infinite alerts

vigilante: "A militant officer willing to bend the law to enact justice."
this one, to someone who was completely new to the game, could imply that it's okay to shoot a confirmed townie if the vigi thinks they aren't helping town or something like that

crusader: "A divine protector whose skills in combat are only matched by the miracles he performs."
while it doesn't necessarily encourage bad plays, it implies that the crusader's combat abilities are somehow better than, say, a bodyguard, and that the crusader can perform miracles, both of which are untrue. it also doesnt say anything about how the crusader can fuck up, which i really think it should (something like "a divine protector who will stop at nothing to protect his target" idk)

ambusher: "A stealthy killer who lies in wait for the perfect moment to strike."
this is incorrect, the ambusher is not stealthy

juggernaut: "An unstoppable force that only gets stronger with each kill."
jugg isnt unstoppable until his third kill

in conclusion: the vigi and the sheriff are the only problematic ones

I agree but its not okay to shoot a confirmed townie its breaking the rules

Moderator Message: Combining Posts Below

OreCreeper wrote:
OxbowSnake25 wrote:
ScarfVendetta wrote:
OxbowSnake25 wrote:did you not listen
classic is not for learning as its the only good gamemode you want learn session go on something else. classic is not for learning videos. now stop ignoring my facts

The in-game description describes Classic as "a game mode usually for beginners". The small variety of roles and the very fixed role-list makes it suitable for new players to learn the mechanics. Major balance changes are primarily aimed at balancing more competitive gamemodes, although this isn't to say that Classic is unimportant.

You have not provided any facts as to why you feel these changes are unsuitable for Classic, either.


1. Yes it says that, but does anyone play it because of that, no they play it because its better than custom,ranked,and all the damn rest. 99% of people play it not because their beginners

doctor - when you attack someone healed by doctor, you never had the immune message, why the fuck add that. you basically making it impossible to find immune people. like sk godfather executioner.
Serial killer - killing escort and the intended target is over powered. escort is supposed to roleblock, the old ability made way more sense for sk, where they only killed the escort, and making the will all bloody ruins the point in trying to find sk.
retributionist - it was better to ressurrect than be able to use abilities from the dead people you raise from the dead which not you dont even do.
Lookout - i perfer the new abilities.

but i dont play coven because noone plays it unless its free

If you have buffed all the roles i liked being buff up medium, as its shit, everyone still damn leaves

id play the other gamemodes but nearly everyone there random lynch/vetbait/random shoot and execute. where on classic they dont do much of that

By "random lynch" I'm guessing you mean vfr, and by "random shoot/exe" I'm guessing you mean killing someone they scumread as evil? Yeah in classic everyone just sits around and does nothing until d4, when TIs find info they dont share it because "if they do they might get targetted". But I guess you're one of those people who'd rather sit around and do nothing and when someone tries to get info, you go "no random lynching" even though vfr =/= random lynch. Yeah we know you suck, but you could've at least tried to hide it.


Look, classic is classic, as i said it does say its for beginners. But nobody plays it that way sure nowadays they do but previously they did not. they played it because it was way better than ranked/custom/all any.
Classic is still better, and 1. i say no random lynching because that is how town loses. you say we random lynch to get roles, well tough that is not how you get roles, you want roles, ask for them first. and if they dont give you there role then vote. but when ever i see you wanting roles i see you random lynching first then asking. my strategy works more, more town alive, less town dead. random lynching gets town killed and that happens 80% of the time! Tell me do you do it ranked/all any/custom/or the rest. well then get a life get off town of salem delete your account or learn how to play.
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby Brilliand » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:35 am

OxbowSnake25 wrote:Classic is still better, and 1. i say no random lynching because that is how town loses. you say we random lynch to get roles, well tough that is not how you get roles, you want roles, ask for them first. and if they dont give you there role then vote. but when ever i see you wanting roles i see you random lynching first then asking. my strategy works more, more town alive, less town dead. random lynching gets town killed and that happens 80% of the time! Tell me do you do it ranked/all any/custom/or the rest. well then get a life get off town of salem delete your account or learn how to play.


"Lynching" isn't voting someone up, it's voting guilty on them.

Asking for roles before voting someone up is fine, asking for role after voting them up is fine too. Really you want to do both, because 1. voting people up increases the amount of time in the day, but also 2. you can only vote people up 3 times per day. So ideally, vote 3 different people up, and in the process demand that everyone claim roles (not just the people who are being voted up).

...but in the process, vote Innocent on everyone unless they refuse to claim, or they're clearly lying.
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby LevinSnakesRise » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:40 pm

OxbowSnake25 wrote:
dolphina wrote:
OxbowSnake25 wrote:
ScarfVendetta wrote:
OxbowSnake25 wrote:-snip-
-snip-
-snip-
-snip-
-snip-


Please make sure you don't multi-post. Use the Edit button if you have something to add prior to another poster posting in the thread. :) I've added your posts together for you.
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Re: Please stop making every role op

Postby kyuss420 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:30 am

Brilliand wrote:
OxbowSnake25 wrote:Classic is still better, and 1. i say no random lynching because that is how town loses. you say we random lynch to get roles, well tough that is not how you get roles, you want roles, ask for them first. and if they dont give you there role then vote. but when ever i see you wanting roles i see you random lynching first then asking. my strategy works more, more town alive, less town dead. random lynching gets town killed and that happens 80% of the time! Tell me do you do it ranked/all any/custom/or the rest. well then get a life get off town of salem delete your account or learn how to play.


"Lynching" isn't voting someone up, it's voting guilty on them.

Asking for roles before voting someone up is fine, asking for role after voting them up is fine too. Really you want to do both, because 1. voting people up increases the amount of time in the day, but also 2. you can only vote people up 3 times per day. So ideally, vote 3 different people up, and in the process demand that everyone claim roles (not just the people who are being voted up).

...but in the process, vote Innocent on everyone unless they refuse to claim, or they're clearly lying.


VFR favors evils. Sheriffs and other TIs should remain silent if they didnt find anything, that way, when they finally find someone in a 3v3 situation, they can single handedly vote them up, or blame town for being to dumb to vote.... Also you can call town dumb for lynching you day 5 or abuse the vigi in dead chat for shooting you when you didnt speak for 4 days because you had no info.

This is the pure Salem meta and how the game is ''meant to be played''. This is why classic is much better than ranked... evils have a chance to get lucky.
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kyuss420
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