(serious) Urgent: Net Neutrality

[presidentjeb]

Non Americans should still read, but this is mostly addressed to my fellow Amuricans:
You know that thing about the internet where you can access/post whatever you want online, so long as it's legal?
That's called Net Neutrality. How it exists is because currently internet is treated in the law as a utility, like water, gas, and electricity. Current law bans providers from restricting utility sales depending on how the utility will be used. Your electric company can't cut off your electricity just because you keep trying to stick forks in your outlets for a meme. Likewise, your internet service provider can't restrict your internet just because you spend all of it on 9gag and ifunny. Anyway, the FCC is about to repeal it because the big companies are bribing them with a lot of money.
Without Net Neutrality, AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, and all the other ISPs can do these to users: Spoiler: 1. artificially increase certain website loading times unless you pay extra money
2. artificially increase certain website loading times period.
3. restrict your access to certain websites unless you buy a premium, more expensive internet service package
4. block websites from you and if you own a website, ISPs can do this to you: Spoiler: 1. artificially increase the loading time for visitors to your website unless you pay extra money
2. artificially increase your website loading time period.
3. restrict people's access to your website unless you buy a premium, more expensive internet service package
4. block your website Here's some more indirect consequences *NON AMERICANS, TAKE NOTE*: Spoiler: 1. Online startups like Discord and BMG won't stand a chance.
2. American Economy= survival of the richest
3. Domino effect of anti-net-neutrality legislation in other countries ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE IN THE UK
4. Corporate-determined political censorship
5. Big companies get even more powerful economically and politically, possibly (like the banks of '08) too big to fail (+possible global recession?) Why now? THE LAST DAY THAT THE FCC IS ACCEPTING COMPLAINTS REGARDING NET NEUTRALITY IS THIS MONDAY, JULY 17, 2017. I AM IMPLORING ALL OF YOU TO PLEASE TAKE YOUR SALT TROLLING AND WOTs TO THE FCC BEFORE THEN TO SAVE NET NEUTRALITY and if you're not american pls still share and get your amurican friends to move their lazy asses
(for filing comments:)
Proceedings: 17-108
Name of Filer: your name
DO NOT ENTER FAKE INFORMATION. THE FCC IS USED TO TROLLS AND WILL NOT TAKE YOUR COMMENT SERIOUSLY.
PLEASE SHARE THIS WITH EVERYONE YOU KNOW AND SEND THEM BAD MEMES UNTIL THEY FILE A COMMENT. NO, THIS IS NOT A DRILL; YES, CONGRESS DOES PASS THIS TYPE OF SHIT for ex. did you know that all your online data got sold to the highest bidder in March this year? what a pleasant surprise.
LEARN MORE ABOUT NET NEUTRALITY HERE: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-40575882
FILE YOUR COMMENT HERE: https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filings/express
DON'T KNOW WHAT TO WRITE? CHECK HERE: http://mashable.com/2017/06/15/how-to-write-a-good-fcc-comment/

[presidentjeb]

whoops lol thanks for the catch; very much appreciated
monday is right but I wrote today's date because tired? XD
ty again :)

[Aetios]

https://www.battleforthenet.com/
You can send a letter through here as well - also provides some information as well ^^

[fornycation]

7 Reasons Net Neutrality Is Idiotic (http://www.dailywire.com/news/18613/7-reasons-net-neutrality-idiotic-aaron-bandler)

1. The instances of ISPs slowing down or blocking data to favor certain sites over others are few and far between.
2. Under Title II, the Internet is subject to a bevy of regulations at the whim of the FCC.
3. The FCC can also subject ISPs to a slew of taxes under Title II.
4. The FCC also has the power to prevent ISPs from charging websites at rates they deem to be unfair and ends "paid priority."
5. It's a form of censorship.
6. It's crony capitalism in favor of web giants like Facebook and Google.
7. The better way to ensure net neutrality is to breathe more capitalism into the ISP market rather than government control.

Don't believe the B.S in the OP.

[presidentjeb]

7 Reasons Net Neutrality Is Idiotic (http://www.dailywire.com/news/18613/7-reasons-net-neutrality-idiotic-aaron-bandler)1. The instances of ISPs slowing down or blocking data to favor certain sites over others are few and far between.
2. Under Title II, the Internet is subject to a bevy of regulations at the whim of the FCC.
3. The FCC can also subject ISPs to a slew of taxes under Title II.
4. The FCC also has the power to prevent ISPs from charging websites at rates they deem to be unfair and ends "paid priority."
5. It's a form of censorship.
6. It's crony capitalism in favor of web giants like Facebook and Google.
7. The better way to ensure net neutrality is to breathe more capitalism into the ISP market rather than government control.
Don't believe the B.S in the OP.

I am not here to "shut you down" but I do want an intellectual conversation so here's my replies to each of your points.
1. examples of scandals. I just did a quick google search
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/186576-verizon-caught-throttling-netflix-traffic-even-after-its-pays-for-more-bandwidth
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/06/17/fcc-fines-att-100-million/28863455/
https://www.theverge.com/2015/11/21/9776052/comcast-stream-tv-data-cap-exemption-net-neutrality
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-t-mobile-data-fine-20161019-snap-story.html
https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/20/14960154/netflix-net-neutrality-stances-timeline (just added to show that both big companies and ISPs have been engaged in scandals in the past)
2. so tell us which ones you have a problem with and we can talk more about those
3. assuming your point is that ISPs have it really hard earning money, I have a hard time believing that. I will admit I am having difficulty finding numbers about each company's exact profits, but from the articles I can find most seem to be doing great. I am aware that ISPs made a huge investment in high speed data awhile back and so despite their high revenues they could still be recovering from debt, I don't know, but most reports about each company seem fairly optimistic. Verizon is the one exception, but I am not convinced that their problems are due to the debt incurred during this huge investment in high speed internet (correct me if I'm wrong about any background info; I'm just trying to piece together what I've read but I'm by no means well read).
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/business/comcast-earns-2-billion-on-strength-in-cable-business.html
http://fortune.com/2017/04/24/t-mobile-revenue-sales-quarter/
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/20/verizon-reports-first-quarter-earnings.html
4. how is ending paid priority a bad thing? doesn't it offer everyone equal access to all parts of the internet since ISPs can't manipulate loading times?
5. how is banning ISPs from engaging in blocking, throttling, and paid priority censorship? unless you're using censorship and regulation interchangeably, like regulation=an economic type of "censorship". lmk if that is the case; i dont want to type up a wot around regulation only to hear that i misunderstood
6. they say it well https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/289416
7. that's your overall assertion; you can't use it in your list of evidence pointing towards said assertion. that's circular logic.

[Veeena]

made into sticky because of the importance.

[fornycation]

I am not here to "shut you down" but I do want an intellectual conversation so here's my replies to each of your points.
1. examples of scandals. I just did a quick google search
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/186576-verizon-caught-throttling-netflix-traffic-even-after-its-pays-for-more-bandwidth
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/06/17/fcc-fines-att-100-million/28863455/
https://www.theverge.com/2015/11/21/9776052/comcast-stream-tv-data-cap-exemption-net-neutrality
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-t-mobile-data-fine-20161019-snap-story.html
https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/20/14960154/netflix-net-neutrality-stances-timeline (just added to show that both big companies and ISPs have been engaged in scandals in the past)
2. so tell us which ones you have a problem with and we can talk more about those
3. assuming your point is that ISPs have it really hard earning money, I have a hard time believing that. I will admit I am having difficulty finding numbers about each company's exact profits, but from the articles I can find most seem to be doing great. I am aware that ISPs made a huge investment in high speed data awhile back and so despite their high revenues they could still be recovering from debt, I don't know, but most reports about each company seem fairly optimistic. Verizon is the one exception, but I am not convinced that their problems are due to the debt incurred during this huge investment in high speed internet (correct me if I'm wrong about any background info; I'm just trying to piece together what I've read but I'm by no means well read).
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/business/comcast-earns-2-billion-on-strength-in-cable-business.html
http://fortune.com/2017/04/24/t-mobile-revenue-sales-quarter/
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/20/verizon-reports-first-quarter-earnings.html
4. how is ending paid priority a bad thing? doesn't it offer everyone equal access to all parts of the internet since ISPs can't manipulate loading times?
5. how is banning ISPs from engaging in blocking, throttling, and paid priority censorship? unless you're using censorship and regulation interchangeably, like regulation=an economic type of "censorship". lmk if that is the case; i dont want to type up a wot around regulation only to hear that i misunderstood
6. they say it well https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/289416
7. that's your overall assertion; you can't use it in your list of evidence pointing towards said assertion. that's circular logic.

Why would you be shutting me down? I’m not a cry baby like others on this forum.

The problem with the FCC like other regulatory bodies is that it kills innovation and hurts smaller businesses. When an ISP has a new idea or business model it must submit it to the FCC for approval. This is a problem because the FCC can shutdown these ideas for whatever reason they feel like even if it’s a benefit to the consumer. This is especially problematic for smaller ISP’s who don’t have the money to hire lawyers and fight these decisions. The FCC also has full control over who can and can’t enter the market which is a huge issue in what’s supposed to be a free market. I can see the point you’re making that you don’t want these companies slowing down service or ripping off customers but for a business that is damaging to their reputation. For example if T-Mobile is misleading customers about data plans is that really a company you would want to do business with? Luckily in a free market there are other options for consumers and if shady behavior continues these ISP’s will soon find themselves losing customers and profits. The solution to this from a regulatory standpoint is just having the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) look at these issues by a case to case basis so there is no need for the FCC. From the FCC Commissioner Ajit Pai “among our nation’s 12 largest internet service providers, domestic broadband capital expenditures decreased by 5.6%, or $3.6 billion, between 2014 and 2016.” It’s not a secret that these regulations are killing investment because of certain taxes and penalties applied to these ISP’s.

Companies shouldn’t be treated equally on the internet, companies should be treated by the amount of resources they use. Sites like Netflix for example use up a large amount of bandwidth so why shouldn’t ISP’s be able to charge higher fees to these companies so that consumers who don’t go to Netflix aren’t on the hook for these costs. Alexandra Petri of Washington Post writes, “To use one of those dreaded analogies, if you are constantly driving huge trucks, full of big deliveries of pornography, along a road, why shouldn’t you have to pay more for the road’s upkeep?” Paid priority is also a good thing because it allows smaller companies to keep up with the big guys. These smaller ISP’s are able to pay for faster load times and bit rates in order to keep up with larger companies that have more resources. If you truly believe that because everyone is treated “equally” under the FCC small and large companies are on the same playing field you are clearly mistaken. Google has an 88 percent market share of the search-engine market. Facebook, a 77 percent share of mobile social media. Amazon, meanwhile, controls 70 percent of e-book sales according to Jonathan Taplin. Only a few companies (and ISP’s) run the internet and there is no way for smaller companies to get a slice of the pie under the FCC. This is why Google and Facebook are large supporters of net neutrality.

I agree that customers and consumers shouldn’t be taken advantage of but the FTC is more than able to handle these issues. The FCC as a regulatory body does nothing but restrict innovation and kill small business. The government should not be able to control what an ISP charges or who is allowed to enter the market, this should be left up to the consumer.

[chitownmvp01]

I've heard of net neutrality before but I didn't know much about it.

As long as my loading times aren't increased and I don't have to pay extra money, I don't give a fuck if bribery is going on.

[presidentjeb]

I've heard of net neutrality before but I didn't know much about it. Are Americans in effected by the repeal given that the OP targets non-Americans?

As long as my loading times aren't increased and I don't have to pay extra money, I don't give a fuck if bribery is going on.

Uh, Americans are the ones most affected by the stuff in this post (which is targeted towards them? I hope lol I'm on my phone)
Aaand that's exactly what's going to happen. Your loading times are going to increase and you're gonna have to pay extra money. It's supposedly happening despite 8 million comments filed with the FCC because it doesn't matter if you're popular when you just got paid a billion dollars.
We tried, though. Best we can do is protests and 2018 now.

[chitownmvp01]

I've heard of net neutrality before but I didn't know much about it. Are Americans in effected by the repeal given that the OP targets non-Americans?

As long as my loading times aren't increased and I don't have to pay extra money, I don't give a fuck if bribery is going on.

Uh, Americans are the ones most affected by the stuff in this post (which is targeted towards them? I hope lol I'm on my phone)
Aaand that's exactly what's going to happen. Your loading times are going to increase and you're gonna have to pay extra money. It's supposedly happening despite 8 million comments filed with the FCC because it doesn't matter if you're popular when you just got paid a billion dollars.
We tried, though. Best we can do is protests and 2018 now.

Oh I got it backwards, lol. I was tired last night. Well that's unfortunate that this is actually going to happen.

[fornycation]

I've heard of net neutrality before but I didn't know much about it. Are Americans in effected by the repeal given that the OP targets non-Americans?

As long as my loading times aren't increased and I don't have to pay extra money, I don't give a fuck if bribery is going on.

Uh, Americans are the ones most affected by the stuff in this post (which is targeted towards them? I hope lol I'm on my phone)
Aaand that's exactly what's going to happen. Your loading times are going to increase and you're gonna have to pay extra money. It's supposedly happening despite 8 million comments filed with the FCC because it doesn't matter if you're popular when you just got paid a billion dollars.
We tried, though. Best we can do is protests and 2018 now.

I guarantee that won't happen. With net neutrality gone ISP's will be more likely to invest in new infrastructure creating a more competitive market, lowering prices plus improving load times etc....

Edit: Also found the FCC has received 40,000 complaints since June 2015. Little bit smaller than 8 million lol
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201 ... omplaints/

[Arckas]

I guarantee that won't happen. With net neutrality gone ISP's will be more likely to invest in new infrastructure creating a more competitive market, lowering prices plus improving load times etc....

Oh my sweet summer child.

[presidentjeb]

Edit: Also found the FCC has received 40,000 complaints since June 2015. Little bit smaller than 8 million lol
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201 ... omplaints/

going to arstechnica to check the number of fcc reports filed is like going to starbucks for pizza. why?
https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/filings?proceedings_name=17-108
10,671,999 filings.

[fornycation]

Edit: Also found the FCC has received 40,000 complaints since June 2015. Little bit smaller than 8 million lol
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201 ... omplaints/

going to arstechnica to check the number of fcc reports filed is like going to starbucks for pizza. why?
https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/filings?proceedings_name=17-108
10,671,999 filings.

Do you see how many bots are on that page? Most are positive comments anyways.

[presidentjeb]

Edit: Also found the FCC has received 40,000 complaints since June 2015. Little bit smaller than 8 million lol
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201 ... omplaints/

going to arstechnica to check the number of fcc reports filed is like going to starbucks for pizza. why?
https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/filings?proceedings_name=17-108
10,671,999 filings.

Do you see how many bots are on that page? Most are positive comments anyways.

please find and quote aforementioned positive comment advocating against net neutrality? because the only positive comments I'd imagine are positive about the filing against the repeal, not the repeal itself.
and no, I don't see this clearly identifiable botting that you're seeing. Can you explain how you identified the mass majority of the comments as bots?

[fornycation]

What are you talking about? Did you even look at the site? Most of the comments say exactly the same thing how can you not see these are all bots? Every comment on the first page is exactly the same and every page after that offers a similar bot message.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Here are two of the many quotes against net neutrality and supporting the repeal.

Obama’s Title II order has diminished broadband investment, stifled innovation, and left American consumers potentially on the hook for a new broadband tax. These regulations ended a decades-long bipartisan consensus that the Internet should be regulated through a light touch framework that worked better than anyone could have imagined and made the Internet what it is. For these reasons I urge you to fully repeal the Obama/Wheeler Internet regulations.

I was outraged by the Obama/Wheeler FCC's decision to reclassify the Internet as a regulated "public utility" under a Depression-era law written for the old Ma Bell telephone monopoly. Government utility regulation of the Internet risks devastating private investment, undermining competition, and stalling innovation. It also puts consumers at serious risk of being hit with a new "broadband tax" to cover the lack of private sector investment due to these regulations. The liberal extremist groups that ginned up fake support for reclassification include the group Free Press, which was cited 62 times in the Title II order. Free Press was founded by ultraliberal college professor Robert McChesney who has admitted: "At the moment, the battle over network neutrality is not to completely eliminate the telephone and cable companies. We are not at that point yet. But the ultimate goal is to get rid of the media capitalists in the phone and cable companies and to divest them from control." Clearly, these extremists groups are openly hostile to America's free-market economy. The Trump/Pai FCC is right to revisit this issue. I urge you to stand up to the radical extremists who took over the FCC under Obama and protect our free-market Internet by rescinding the Title II order.

Open your eyes and read the comments please. It's clear 99% of the comments are bots.

[presidentjeb]

What are you talking about? Did you even look at the site? Most of the comments say exactly the same thing how can you not see these are all bots? Every comment on the first page is exactly the same and every page after that offers a similar bot message.
Open your eyes and read the comments please. It's clear 99% of the comments are bots.

those are templates, sure, but the people are real. Loads of nonprofits, in an effort to get more people to file, offered them a message they could copypaste into their comment part instead of writing a custom message themselves. You dug for those anti-Net Neutrality comments, you know how difficult it is to find them in the midst of all these "bots".

[fornycation]

You make me laugh. There are lots of "templates" against net neutrality as well. I don't really have to dig much for these.

Spoiler:
All with the same message... "Obama’s Title II order has diminished broadband investment, stifled innovation, and left American consumers potentially on the hook for a new broadband tax. These regulations ended a decades-long bipartisan consensus that the Internet should be regulated through a light touch framework that worked better than anyone could have imagined and made the Internet what it is. For these reasons I urge you to fully repeal the Obama/Wheeler Internet regulations."

Spoiler:
"I was outraged by the Obama/Wheeler FCC's decision to reclassify the Internet as a regulated "public utility" under a Depression-era law written for the old Ma Bell telephone monopoly. Government utility regulation of the Internet risks devastating private investment, undermining competition, and stalling innovation. It also puts consumers at serious risk of being hit with a new "broadband tax" to cover the lack of private sector investment due to these regulations. The liberal extremist groups that ginned up fake support for reclassification include the group Free Press, which was cited 62 times in the Title II order. Free Press was founded by ultraliberal college professor Robert McChesney who has admitted: "At the moment, the battle over network neutrality is not to completely eliminate the telephone and cable companies. We are not at that point yet. But the ultimate goal is to get rid of the media capitalists in the phone and cable companies and to divest them from control." Clearly, these extremists groups are openly hostile to America's free-market economy. The Trump/Pai FCC is right to revisit this issue. I urge you to stand up to the radical extremists who took over the FCC under Obama and protect our free-market Internet by rescinding the Title II order."

Of course these aren't bots either but just templates.

[Swordsworth]

The problem with templates is that they become near indistinguishable from Bots. But there is absolutely no upside to repealing Net Neutrality.