Dealing With Fake Day 1 Jailor Claims

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Dealing With Fake Day 1 Jailor Claims

Postby RiceHatMan » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:35 pm

I still see many Jailors cc other Jailor claims, and everyone says "real one exe the other". Not only does this expose the real Jailor during the night, it also keeps the real one unconfirmed throughout the whole day.
This strategy is only for Jailors.

Strategy:
- If someone claims Jailor day 1, DON'T CC OR JAIL THEM
- Jail someone random, and say to them that the Jailor that claimed is fake, but don't say your name
- On day 2, the jailed player will have to out the fake Jailor, even if they are evil, because they don't know who you are
- If they don't say anything, then stay quiet and exe the Jailor claim, then out the jailed player day 3
- This means you safely get confirmed and get TP on night 2

As a note, the first Jailor to claim day 1 is always the most credible using this strategy.
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Re: Dealing With Fake Day 1 Jailor Claims

Postby Brilliand » Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:36 pm

Why would the jailed person be believed?

I mean, sure, the person you jailed N1 will have to announce that the Jailor claim is fake. But the rest of the Town has no reason to believe them, so you'll have to execute the fake Jailor yourself anyway. (Worst-case scenario, the fake Jailor will order the Town to immediately lynch the person who was jailed, and the Town will comply, so you just caused a mislynch.)
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Re: Dealing With Fake Day 1 Jailor Claims

Postby RiceHatMan » Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:44 pm

Brilliand wrote:Why would the jailed person be believed?

I mean, sure, the person you jailed N1 will have to announce that the Jailor claim is fake. But the rest of the Town has no reason to believe them, so you'll have to execute the fake Jailor yourself anyway. (Worst-case scenario, the fake Jailor will order the Town to immediately lynch the person who was jailed, and the Town will comply, so you just caused a mislynch.)

I guess you can make the jailed player question who the fake Jailor jailed instead of saying that Jailor is fake. The fake won't be able to say anything, and if they say they jailed another person, and that person confirmed, stay quiet another night and execute the fake Jailor, then proceed to lynch the fake jailed player. If the fake Jailor can't say anything, come out and cc. By this point, you are probably the most credible, no matter what the fake one does. You will then get TP night 2 this way too.
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Re: Dealing With Fake Day 1 Jailor Claims

Postby Brilliand » Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:25 pm

Well, that does sound like it would work out OK. Letting all the TP and LO go on a single target (even if evil) is definitely a good thing outside of Coven - it wreaks havoc on the meta if the TPs have to split between two targets.
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Re: Dealing With Fake Day 1 Jailor Claims

Postby OreCreeper » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:11 am

Harryyoshi wrote:
Brilliand wrote:Why would the jailed person be believed?

I mean, sure, the person you jailed N1 will have to announce that the Jailor claim is fake. But the rest of the Town has no reason to believe them, so you'll have to execute the fake Jailor yourself anyway. (Worst-case scenario, the fake Jailor will order the Town to immediately lynch the person who was jailed, and the Town will comply, so you just caused a mislynch.)

I guess you can make the jailed player question who the fake Jailor jailed instead of saying that Jailor is fake. The fake won't be able to say anything, and if they say they jailed another person, and that person confirmed, stay quiet another night and execute the fake Jailor, then proceed to lynch the fake jailed player. If the fake Jailor can't say anything, come out and cc. By this point, you are probably the most credible, no matter what the fake one does. You will then get TP night 2 this way too.

I mean the fake jailor can just say "yeah I jailed this guy, he claimed <random role>, but I guess he is mafia". This might work with dumber players, but that's usually where town will believe a mafia member when he has a jailed mafia member confirm him as the "real jailor". With smarter players, they'd almost always ask jailors to exe each other, because mislynching a jailor is a huge setback for town, and even if its a 2 for 1, it generally works against town because if TK is vet, after factoring in the mafia and NK night kills, it leaves town at a 6v5 disadvantage with no jailor or vigilante. This doesn't even consider that most fake jailor claims in lower elo games where this would work end up being town anyway. In those games, I doubt there are any evils who know how to properly do the "fake jailor claim" strat.
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Re: Dealing With Fake Day 1 Jailor Claims

Postby RiceHatMan » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:42 am

OreCreeper wrote:
Harryyoshi wrote:I guess you can make the jailed player question who the fake Jailor jailed instead of saying that Jailor is fake. The fake won't be able to say anything, and if they say they jailed another person, and that person confirmed, stay quiet another night and execute the fake Jailor, then proceed to lynch the fake jailed player. If the fake Jailor can't say anything, come out and cc. By this point, you are probably the most credible, no matter what the fake one does. You will then get TP night 2 this way too.

I mean the fake jailor can just say "yeah I jailed this guy, he claimed <random role>, but I guess he is mafia". This might work with dumber players, but that's usually where town will believe a mafia member when he has a jailed mafia member confirm him as the "real jailor". With smarter players, they'd almost always ask jailors to exe each other, because mislynching a jailor is a huge setback for town, and even if its a 2 for 1, it generally works against town because if TK is vet, after factoring in the mafia and NK night kills, it leaves town at a 6v5 disadvantage with no jailor or vigilante. This doesn't even consider that most fake jailor claims in lower elo games where this would work end up being town anyway. In those games, I doubt there are any evils who know how to properly do the "fake jailor claim" strat.

You don't come out day 2 if the fake is confirmed by one of their Mafia. You execute the fake, and then you expose the other Mafia that claimed to be jailed. Either way, if the fake has an excuse, don't come out and execute them night 2.
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Re: Dealing With Fake Day 1 Jailor Claims

Postby OreCreeper » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:08 am

Harryyoshi wrote:
OreCreeper wrote:
Harryyoshi wrote:I guess you can make the jailed player question who the fake Jailor jailed instead of saying that Jailor is fake. The fake won't be able to say anything, and if they say they jailed another person, and that person confirmed, stay quiet another night and execute the fake Jailor, then proceed to lynch the fake jailed player. If the fake Jailor can't say anything, come out and cc. By this point, you are probably the most credible, no matter what the fake one does. You will then get TP night 2 this way too.

I mean the fake jailor can just say "yeah I jailed this guy, he claimed <random role>, but I guess he is mafia". This might work with dumber players, but that's usually where town will believe a mafia member when he has a jailed mafia member confirm him as the "real jailor". With smarter players, they'd almost always ask jailors to exe each other, because mislynching a jailor is a huge setback for town, and even if its a 2 for 1, it generally works against town because if TK is vet, after factoring in the mafia and NK night kills, it leaves town at a 6v5 disadvantage with no jailor or vigilante. This doesn't even consider that most fake jailor claims in lower elo games where this would work end up being town anyway. In those games, I doubt there are any evils who know how to properly do the "fake jailor claim" strat.

You don't come out day 2 if the fake is confirmed by one of their Mafia. You execute the fake, and then you expose the other Mafia that claimed to be jailed. Either way, if the fake has an excuse, don't come out and execute them night 2.

What I'm trying to say is that the town may believe that the person who claimed jailor d1 is actually the real jailor, and the jailed person is a member of the mafia trying to defend their teammate. It's kind of suspicious when there's a fake jailor claim d1, and the real jailor neither cc's nor jails the fake claim, and instead jails a random guy who confirms him. It is really easy to pull off your strategy but as a mafia play. Let's say, for example, the real jailor comes out d1, and he happens to jail the mafioso. The framer says in mafia chat "mafioso, come out and say that the jailor is fake tomorrow". The next day, the mafioso announces that he was jailed, and "jailor" told him that the d1 claimer was fake. And then the framer comes out and says hes the real jailor, and that he jailed the mafioso. If, in this case, town were to lynch the "fake jailor" like you suggested, they would actually be lynching the real jailor. The only way that your strategy can work is if you end up jailing a mayor since they can reveal to confirm themselves so what they say would be trusted by the town. But if you jail anyone else, there's no way for town to know if you're the real jailor or if you're mafia taking advantage of the fact that your fellow mafia was jailed to make a play. Having jailors execute each other is the least risky resolution to 2 jailor claims. If I were the jailor, I'd say nothing, and then silently execute the fake claimer n2, since if you have the player you jailed push the jailor claim d2, town might believe that it's a mafia play, and the fake jailor can use this to push a mislynch on the jailed player. And thus, what could've been a free kill ended up being 1 for 1. And if the fake jailor claim was town, that's a 2 for 1 + you losing your exes.
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Re: Dealing With Fake Day 1 Jailor Claims

Postby Brilliand » Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:25 am

Yep, so this strategy effectively converts to:

  • If someone fakeclaims Jailor, don't CC them D1-D2 or jail them N1. Let them have the tp/lo so LO can confirm TP.
  • D2, the player who was jailed N1 accuses the Jailor of being fake, so the Lookouts know to post their info in public instead of just whispering to the Jailor.
  • N2, quietly execute the fake Jailor claim
  • D3, claim Jailor and get tp/lo on you for N3

The Town can't allow this strategy to work any faster than that. It still compares well with the standard strategy of:

  • If someone fakeclaims Jailor, CC them immediately and jail them. Let the TP and LO visit randomly between you to identify which is jailed and which is not.
  • N2, the tp/lo will all know which is real, and will all be on you while you execute the fake Jailor.

In the first strategy, the Mafia has 2 nights to kill an unprotected and unidentified Jailor, and the TP/LO meta works at full speed (albeit without a proper town leader to whisper to). In the second strategy, the Mafia has one night to kill a Jailor who has roughly a 2/3 chance of being protected, and the TP/LO meta is delayed by one night. Both strategies fail to confirm Escorts, since in the first case the fake Jailor can't be trusted to accurately report being roleblocked, and in the second case the Escort can't be allowed to be on the Jailor N2.
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Re: Dealing With Fake Day 1 Jailor Claims

Postby Sey979 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:56 pm

Low elo comments. Lol
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Re: Dealing With Fake Day 1 Jailor Claims

Postby cob709 » Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:39 am

Sey979 wrote:Low elo comments. Lol

The game's currently off-season for balancing updates.
Players will not gain nor lose ELO during this time.
I SEE ALL
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Re: Dealing With Fake Day 1 Jailor Claims

Postby MafiaxSK » Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:49 am

Low elo is a state of mind tbh
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Re: Dealing With Fake Day 1 Jailor Claims

Postby Soulshade55r » Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:30 pm

Real jailor should always jail the fake be careful about outing if someone claimed jailor before you as tps tend to go on the first jailor
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Re: Dealing With Fake Day 1 Jailor Claims

Postby StormReturn » Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:16 am

It happened to me when I was a jailor.

First scenario.
When a faked jailor claimed on D1, I was cc that person & jailed him right after.
The funny thing is that he claimed himself as veteran & tried to bait mafia.
I was like 'Dude, any tp/lo roles might be dead on your hand.'
Later on, he was confirmed me as jailor but I did not reveal him role to the public.

Another scenario was a faked jailor claimed on D1 & I was cc that person. I was jailing another townie to make sure he will confirm me on D2.
On D2, that faked jailor insisted that I am the faked jailor & we lynched him.
The worst thing is that the faked jailor was a BG.I have to jail another player who sus'ing on me to prove I am the real jailor.
We won in the end, but it was a worst game I ever play.

Cheers.
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Re: Dealing With Fake Day 1 Jailor Claims

Postby Descender » Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:34 am

please no necrobumpino
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