My opinions on two of the ranked/ranked practice strategies

[ShockwaveRider]

1. D1 vet baiting and alerting. I think this one is one of the worst offenders here. Most evils don't visit d1 talkers, and the odds of townies visiting said vet bait is much higher. Moreover, some of the vet baits are extremely obvious, so evils tend to leave those people till the end while these people waste all their alerts in the first three days. While it is unfortunate if vet got hit n1 and die, the odds of said event is fairly low. Considering a ranked/ranked practice game where a full game is 15 people, 4 of which are mafia, there are 11 targets to choose from. So that's about 1/11 odds of getting killed by mafia (about 9.1%). Assuming we throw a serial killer in there, the serial killer has 1/14 chance of hitting a specific person (about 7.1%). The total probabiliy of getting hit n1 is 16.2% as a random veteran and that's assuming there is SK together with mafia. These odds are not worth alerting over.

2. Jailor claiming d1 or Mayor revealing d1. This is another one of those stupidly annoying strategies. While I don't deny its effectiveness in some of the games like a SK game or WW game, it can be seriously detrimental when there is an arsonist about. Jailor claiming d1 depends on two things, TP and LO. Problem is, LO doesn't always happen and there won't always be a bodyguard when there is a mayor. Also, when jailors or mayors reveal, they tend to hog up the town protection, this means worse odds for the rest of town. Think of it this way, in a 15 player game, Mafia has 4 members, so that leaves 11 unknown persons to attack. If jailor reveals themselves d1, then there will be 10 unknown persons to attack since mafia needs to get rid of TP before they can strike at jailor. Since jailor can't execute d1 and TIs will likely begin to speak during the second day, maf can quickly narrow down who TP might be and kill TP before decending on the jailor. With TP dead, town has to either hope for a RT TP or LO, both of which may or may not happen, or else the jailor is almost guaranteed to get killed quickly, causing town to lose an important member. That's discounting if an arsonist is in the game, they may just douse the jailor n1 and ignite if they think no lookout is present. I'm not saying Jailor should never reveal, but I think d1 reveals can accelerate the death of the jailor, which in turn will greatly weaken the town.

People need to realize that Town of Salem is about team-work, instead of staying alive yourself. While its is undeniable that some roles are obviously more powerful and useful than others, no one can win the game just by themselves.

[Joacgroso]

I don't think vet baiting is wrong, although I don't like to do it. The only bad "vet bait" is asking for TP/lo and alerting, since you're literally asking town to kill themselves. Even then, I can get how some people might come up with that strat, when things like this happen:
Spoiler:
If someone visits an obvious vet bait, they deserve to die for taking the risk. Town has no real reason to visit a vet bait n1 anyway. TPs should be on tp/lo asker to confirm themselves, TKs can't visit and TIs can just check someone else.
Asking for TP and alerting is pretty much gamethrowing, but sadly it isn't punishable. Most people who do it outside of classic want to exploit this fact to throw.
Regarding your opinion on jailor meta, you may want to read this thread where the topic was discussed.

[kosmo16]

I don't think vet baiting is wrong, although I don't like to do it. The only bad "vet bait" is asking for TP/lo and alerting, since you're literally asking town to kill themselves. Even then, I can get how some people might come up with that strat, when things like this happen:
Spoiler:
If someone visits an obvious vet bait, they deserve to die for taking the risk. Town has no real reason to visit a vet bait n1 anyway. TPs should be on tp/lo asker to confirm themselves, TKs can't visit and TIs can just check someone else.
Asking for TP and alerting is pretty much gamethrowing, but sadly it isn't punishable. Most people who do it outside of classic want to exploit this fact to throw.
Regarding your opinion on jailor meta, you may want to read this thread where the topic was discussed.

Vetbaiting D1 is extremely stupid. Fact that TI can check someone else mean that evils can abuse that by speaking day 1 to not get investigated.

Also the way how I abuse these stupid Veterans is to just send people to them as the Witch. Killed numerous people that way.

[PatrykSzczescie]

I like how the OP uses reason that most evils don't visit vet bait and vet baits are sometimes extremely obvious, then also uses a reason that town is actually visiting.

Aren't visits on vet baits dependent on people themselves? It's not like one doesn't visit vet baits as evil but the same one would visit the same vet bait as townie. Most cautious people simply don't visit D1 talkers as any role.

I also think D1 vet baits are bad, but this topic has been discussed for very long time as a known issue. Tbh, leave vet baits in their own world, they have this power to single-handedly affect the result of the game and that's why people like yolo-alerting - because it's fun for them. The most important thing is that you don't fall for vet bait then you'll win more games than normally in the long run.

About jailor meta - I don't think it can be clearly said if it's better or worse. You should simply apply your strategy to the jailor meta. As town, you can have most town roles visit jailor so LO can confirm visits. Sometimes, when spy doesn't see any mafia visit on jailor, those visits visible on LO report can be assumed as non-mafia members. As evil, you simply make sure someone visits jailor so no one visible on LO report will be clear. While the flaw is that mafia can be safe about killing anyone else beside the jailor, actually jailor can save someone by jailing. Jailor is the only role that is certain in every ranked game so jailor can lead the town and the result of the game is much more dependent on how the jailor plays. Also, jailor D1 claiming ensures that after getting cleaned mafia doesn't claim the role, further jailing partners and leading town to mislynches. The downside of the jailor outing is strongly dependent on which NK lives.

[Joacgroso]

Vetbaiting D1 is extremely stupid. Fact that TI can check someone else mean that evils can abuse that by speaking day 1 to not get investigated.

Also the way how I abuse these stupid Veterans is to just send people to them as the Witch. Killed numerous people that way.

I don't think it's a good strategy, I'm just saying it isn't gamethrowing. If TIs want to check someone softclaiming vet, it's their own risk. They could just go for no claimers and lynch the "vet" if he changes his claim. If evils start talking day 1, vet baiting will become less useful and people will stop doing it, so checking people who talks day one will be a good strategy again. Then vets will start alerting again and the cycle repeats. Besides, vet is unique, so if there are many d1 vet claims town can always 1 for 1 them.

[kyuss420]

1. D1 vet baiting and alerting. I think this one is one of the worst offenders here. Most evils don't visit d1 talkers, and the odds of townies visiting said vet bait is much higher. Moreover, some of the vet baits are extremely obvious, so evils tend to leave those people till the end while these people waste all their alerts in the first three days. While it is unfortunate if vet got hit n1 and die, the odds of said event is fairly low. Considering a ranked/ranked practice game where a full game is 15 people, 4 of which are mafia, there are 11 targets to choose from. So that's about 1/11 odds of getting killed by mafia (about 9.1%). Assuming we throw a serial killer in there, the serial killer has 1/14 chance of hitting a specific person (about 7.1%). The total probabiliy of getting hit n1 is 16.2% as a random veteran and that's assuming there is SK together with mafia. These odds are not worth alerting over.

2. Jailor claiming d1 or Mayor revealing d1. This is another one of those stupidly annoying strategies. While I don't deny its effectiveness in some of the games like a SK game or WW game, it can be seriously detrimental when there is an arsonist about. Jailor claiming d1 depends on two things, TP and LO. Problem is, LO doesn't always happen and there won't always be a bodyguard when there is a mayor. Also, when jailors or mayors reveal, they tend to hog up the town protection, this means worse odds for the rest of town. Think of it this way, in a 15 player game, Mafia has 4 members, so that leaves 11 unknown persons to attack. If jailor reveals themselves d1, then there will be 10 unknown persons to attack since mafia needs to get rid of TP before they can strike at jailor. Since jailor can't execute d1 and TIs will likely begin to speak during the second day, maf can quickly narrow down who TP might be and kill TP before decending on the jailor. With TP dead, town has to either hope for a RT TP or LO, both of which may or may not happen, or else the jailor is almost guaranteed to get killed quickly, causing town to lose an important member. That's discounting if an arsonist is in the game, they may just douse the jailor n1 and ignite if they think no lookout is present. I'm not saying Jailor should never reveal, but I think d1 reveals can accelerate the death of the jailor, which in turn will greatly weaken the town.

People need to realize that Town of Salem is about team-work, instead of staying alive yourself. While its is undeniable that some roles are obviously more powerful and useful than others, no one can win the game just by themselves.

Well the ''jailor'' or LO meta came about, because its much easier (and faster) to find and confirm the 11 townies, than it is to find and confirm the 4 maf. Especially in a game where there is a set role list, and 1 (or 2) of those townie slots is being revealed by a dead guy each day.... with the set roles revealing themselves, time isnt wasted on TIs checking them, TPs arent randomly camped on evil players, and the TKs have better odds of hitting evil players at night.
Disputes over role slots are also settled earlier, while town has a decent majority, so they arent in a ''mislynch and lose'' situation later in the game.

So yes, team work.... that is why claiming early is more beneficial to your townie team, hiding your role from evils, is exactly the same as hiding your role from your townie team... but hiding your role also hides any information you may have, which only benefits evils, it also causes other roles to waste time on you, that could have been spent on evils.

[kosmo16]

1. D1 vet baiting and alerting. I think this one is one of the worst offenders here. Most evils don't visit d1 talkers, and the odds of townies visiting said vet bait is much higher. Moreover, some of the vet baits are extremely obvious, so evils tend to leave those people till the end while these people waste all their alerts in the first three days. While it is unfortunate if vet got hit n1 and die, the odds of said event is fairly low. Considering a ranked/ranked practice game where a full game is 15 people, 4 of which are mafia, there are 11 targets to choose from. So that's about 1/11 odds of getting killed by mafia (about 9.1%). Assuming we throw a serial killer in there, the serial killer has 1/14 chance of hitting a specific person (about 7.1%). The total probabiliy of getting hit n1 is 16.2% as a random veteran and that's assuming there is SK together with mafia. These odds are not worth alerting over.

2. Jailor claiming d1 or Mayor revealing d1. This is another one of those stupidly annoying strategies. While I don't deny its effectiveness in some of the games like a SK game or WW game, it can be seriously detrimental when there is an arsonist about. Jailor claiming d1 depends on two things, TP and LO. Problem is, LO doesn't always happen and there won't always be a bodyguard when there is a mayor. Also, when jailors or mayors reveal, they tend to hog up the town protection, this means worse odds for the rest of town. Think of it this way, in a 15 player game, Mafia has 4 members, so that leaves 11 unknown persons to attack. If jailor reveals themselves d1, then there will be 10 unknown persons to attack since mafia needs to get rid of TP before they can strike at jailor. Since jailor can't execute d1 and TIs will likely begin to speak during the second day, maf can quickly narrow down who TP might be and kill TP before decending on the jailor. With TP dead, town has to either hope for a RT TP or LO, both of which may or may not happen, or else the jailor is almost guaranteed to get killed quickly, causing town to lose an important member. That's discounting if an arsonist is in the game, they may just douse the jailor n1 and ignite if they think no lookout is present. I'm not saying Jailor should never reveal, but I think d1 reveals can accelerate the death of the jailor, which in turn will greatly weaken the town.

People need to realize that Town of Salem is about team-work, instead of staying alive yourself. While its is undeniable that some roles are obviously more powerful and useful than others, no one can win the game just by themselves.

Well the ''jailor'' or LO meta came about, because its much easier (and faster) to find and confirm the 11 townies, than it is to find and confirm the 4 maf. Especially in a game where there is a set role list, and 1 (or 2) of those townie slots is being revealed by a dead guy each day.... with the set roles revealing themselves, time isnt wasted on TIs checking them, TPs arent randomly camped on evil players, and the TKs have better odds of hitting evil players at night.
Disputes over role slots are also settled earlier, while town has a decent majority, so they arent in a ''mislynch and lose'' situation later in the game.

So yes, team work.... that is why claiming early is more beneficial to your townie team, hiding your role from evils, is exactly the same as hiding your role from your townie team... but hiding your role also hides any information you may have, which only benefits evils, it also causes other roles to waste time on you, that could have been spent on evils.

I think Jailor meta is not that good. It is very vulnerable to Arsonist, Consorts and Witch. I think in legacy, I was usually asking for tp/lo Day 1 as medium. The same idea, confirm as many people as possible.