Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

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Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby DestroyerR225 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:22 am

Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Attack: None
Defense: None

Role name: Cult Leader

Role alignment: Neutral Chaos

Abilities: Each night, you may choose a player to convert.

Attributes:
•The player that you visit will become an Acolyte in addition to their original role.
•If the Cult Leader dies, all Acolytes will commit suicide the following night.
•The Cult Leader will have all his Acolytes listed as Acolyte in a box next to his rolecard.
•All the Acolytes will have the Cult Leader listed as Cult Leader in a box next to their rolecard.
•Pestilence is immune to converting.
•If you die by committing suicide (AKA leaving the game) your Acolytes will not die, and they continue the game as normal.

Special attributes: Unique

Investigative results:
Investigator - Your target could be a Framer, Vampire, Jester, or Cult Leader.
Sheriff - Your target is not suspicious.
Witch/Consig - Your target leads a mysterious cult. They must be a Cult Leader.

Goal: Convert all living players to your cult.

Wins with: All Neutrals (the Cult Leader does NOT need to convert them). All other roles (INCLUDING THE ACOLYTES) lose.

Notifications:
Spoiler: For Acolytes:
You have been converted by the Cult Leader. You will commit suicide if they die!
You couldn’t protect your Cult Leader. You have committed suicide!

For Cult Leader:
You have decided to convert [name] tonight.
You have decided instead to convert [name] tonight.
You have converted [name] to your cult.
You have tried to convert a god to your cult and failed. How foolish!

For a player (when converted in jail):
Someone tried to convert you to their cult, but you were in jail!

For the rest of the Town (when an Acolyte commits suicide):
[name] died last night. He committed suicide over the guilt of not protecting the Cult Leader.


Thoughts?
Last edited by DestroyerR225 on Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:51 pm, edited 14 times in total.
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Chemist1422 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:30 am

Interesting idea. Normally NC roles are crazy, but this one could work balance-wise.
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby ZzFifthElementzZ » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:42 am

The idea is there, but is the originality.

I don't mean to intrude with harmful words, but is this not a remake of vampires?. Players that are converted are aware of whom their Cult Leader is, but not teammates. This could easily lead to mislynches made by any Acolytes, which you don't want. Players are converted when the Coven Leader chooses them, but are at jeopardy of losing the game if their leader dies. This seems like an overpowered move, potentially you could work around with this to ensure that, lets say .. about 4 converted players, don't lose within seconds. You might want to add a basic-defense for the Cult Leader, because imagine if you have a scenario with 3 converted players, and the last town is vigilante. (Most likely town will slide with you, and allow you to convert them into the faction).
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby DestroyerR225 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:52 pm

ZzFifthElementzZ wrote:The idea is there, but is the originality.

I don't mean to intrude with harmful words, but is this not a remake of vampires?.(1) Players that are converted are aware of whom their Cult Leader is, but not teammates. This could easily lead to mislynches made by any Acolytes, which you don't want.(2) Players are converted when the Coven Leader chooses them, but are at jeopardy of losing the game if their leader dies.(3) This seems like an overpowered move, potentially you could work around with this to ensure that, lets say .. about 4 converted players, don't lose within seconds. You might want to add a basic-defense for the Cult Leader, because imagine if you have a scenario with 3 converted players, and the last town is vigilante.(4) (Most likely town will slide with you, and allow you to convert them into the faction).(2, again)


First off, thanks for the constructive criticism! I’ll try to answer your arguments (numbers in bold):

1. You could see it like that. I see it as a very different role, that only seems similar to vampire because of its conversion mechanic (well, pseudo-conversion). But don’t be fooled, this “faction” functions differently from the vampire, and I don’t think anybody would think I’m boasting when I say this is more balanced, either.

2. Ok, let me make one thing clear. The Acolytes don’t win if the Cult Leader wins. they still have their original win conditions, only now they also have a dilemma; they must keep the Cult Leader alive in order to live, but if they keep him around too long he’ll take control of everything and EVERYONE will lose.

3. Oh, but the Acolytes don’t lose if the Cult Leader dies. They die, but can still win if their original faction pulls it off. Unless you’re a neutral.

4. If those were the only alive players, and the vigi wasn’t an Acolyte, that’s actually a win for Town.

Hope I clarified!
Last edited by DestroyerR225 on Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Seththeking » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:30 pm

I could honestly see this as an NE or NB. It acts Similar to Jester. As they both only kill if they die, however for Jester it is lynched but I think you get my point.
Overall this role is good /Support
Wait.....
Now that I see it I guess it is better off solo so that is why it is NC. Alright I understand now.
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby DestroyerR225 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:38 pm

Well, if this wins nobody else does, so NB is out of question. As for NE... NE always have relatively “small” win cons, often teaming up with another faction to win. This, on the other hand, is a loner, and can only win if EVERYONE ELSE loses. NK is also not fitting, since this doesn’t kill, so what’s left is NC.
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Seththeking » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:58 pm

DestroyerR225 wrote:Well, if this wins nobody else does, so NB is out of question. As for NE... NE always have relatively “small” win cons, often teaming up with another faction to win. This, on the other hand, is a loner, and can only win if EVERYONE ELSE loses. NK is also not fitting, since this doesn’t kill, so what’s left is NC.


Yeah IK I realized that, if you couldn't tell by my edit. It only wins solo.
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Feefa » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:20 am

This is almost identical to an idea for a Vampire rework that I thought through but never posted last year.

Here's the differences. Feel free to use them if you like them or ignore them if you don't. I'm not in love with any of these ideas.

* Instead of the Cultists knowing the Cult Leader's name, the Cult Leader gets a one-way night chat with his Cultists that he may use to give them whatever info he wishes, including his name.

* The Cult Leader knows the Cultists roles as well their names.

* If all living players are Cultists or the Cult Leader then all living players win. All dead players lose, including those who died as Cultists. Jester and Executioner win as normal.
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby DestroyerR225 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:42 am

I feel like the first two ideas are kind of useless, since one of the main points of this role is to know as little as possible about your “allies”, and the Acolytes should protect the Cult Leader (and eventually try to kill him) as they see fit. That, and I’m not a fan of needless complexity, and these changes don’t seem to do a whole lot. As for the third change, I wanted this role to be a “parasite”, a role that uses the protection of others to win solo. The change you suggested causes some serious issues with that mentality, as it means the Cult Leader can be cooperative and helping, which I don’t think fits the idea of a NC role. But thanks for the suggestions anyway!
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Feefa » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:34 am

Leave everything as it is then. I like the role a lot. It looks as if it would deliver something that's almost a conversion role but without the disadvantages of a conversion role. (I suspect that's the brief you gave yourself.)

A couple more thoughts.

How would it interact with TPs? Would a bodyguard kill the Cult Leader? Would a Doc prevent the conversion?

Is there a danger that the first Townie that you convert would out both you and themself to minimise town's losses?
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby DestroyerR225 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:49 am

BGs and Doctors wouldn’t interact with this at all, since it’s not an attack, but rather a “BG-friendly” action (something like a frame, RB, etc.). As for the first townie question, I thought about that. But there’s a surprisingly simple obstacle in that line of thought: the townie doesn’t KNOW he’s the first. Unless a townie is converted N1, he could be the second, third, and even fourth converted for all he knows! The trick is using strategy as the Cult Leader: will you convert no one at N1, to give the Town a false impression? Or perhaps you’ll risk it and convert, hoping that you hit a non-townie or one that’s particularly important or not particularly bright? Or maybe you could act innocent and say something along: “lol nice try exe” until you’ve secured your position? This creates a whole new layer of strategy I like a lot!
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Soulshade55r » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:59 am

How about we keep Vampires as the only conversion role? We really don't need another one
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby DestroyerR225 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:02 am

Only this isn’t really a conversion role, the converted players stay true to their original goal. If anything, this should replace Vampire.
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Feefa » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:50 am

Soulshade55r wrote:How about we keep Vampires as the only conversion role? We really don't need another one


I like this role more than Vampire. In fact, call this role Vampire, call the Cultists Thralls and we've got replacement for Vampire that doesn't screw the converted players so badly.
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby GMallow » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:58 pm

This role seems pretty interesting. I like all the mechanics going on here.

/support
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby DestroyerR225 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:54 pm

Thank you!
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Catacalys » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:52 pm

"Convert all people to your cult."

Can't convert Mr. Pestie.

Oofles, there goes the win.
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby DestroyerR225 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:05 pm

Catacalys wrote:"Convert all people to your cult."

Can't convert Mr. Pestie.

Oofles, there goes the win.

That’s to prevent a case where both lose, since Pestilence will always attack the Cult Leader.
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby TheBrighterSkies » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:22 pm

DestroyerR225 wrote:
Catacalys wrote:"Convert all people to your cult."

Can't convert Mr. Pestie.

Oofles, there goes the win.

That’s to prevent a case where both lose, since Pestilence will always attack the Cult Leader.


Wouldn't this still mean that you'd lose, because, you have to convert everyone, and if you can't, it would be pretty pointless.
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby DestroyerR225 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:41 am

TheBrighterSkies wrote:
DestroyerR225 wrote:
Catacalys wrote:"Convert all people to your cult."

Can't convert Mr. Pestie.

Oofles, there goes the win.

That’s to prevent a case where both lose, since Pestilence will always attack the Cult Leader.


Wouldn't this still mean that you'd lose, because, you have to convert everyone, and if you can't, it would be pretty pointless.

You can still try to lynch Pestilence, you know...
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby DestroyerR225 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:50 pm

Bump
Bumping is allowed after 5 days, right?
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby fwogcarf » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:01 pm

DestroyerR225 wrote:Bump
Bumping is allowed after 5 days, right?

Yes
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby DestroyerR225 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:03 am

Bump 2: The Sequel
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Aimageddon » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:23 am

Love this idea a lot. I was about to write a long list of the issues with this role before I realised that even though the Cult Leader has won the converted roles can still win. I think the winning conditions should specify that once the Cult Leader has won they become like an Executioner as the game continues. If I have misread this and the game ends when everyone is converted I think that a lot of problems emerge.

Also why does the Cult Leader not win with Survivors?
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Re: Cult Leader (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Mystoc » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:58 pm

seems like king maker to me people cant risk killing it cause they dont know who is converted already

town cant risk since killing him will prolly kill alot town, if this role gets lucky early game and converts some evils, they cant risk killing him

basically hugely town sided and if lucky evils cant kill him either, sorta king maker late game, but early game needs to worry about evils targeting him so cant reveal
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