Town Protective Overhaul

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Town Protective Overhaul

Postby BasicFourLife » Sat May 26, 2018 5:06 am

This thread is meant to overhaul the entirety of Town Protectives (Doctor, Bodyguard, Crusader and Trapper) in ToS.

Doctor
- If a killing role attacks a target healed by a Doctor, instead of "no message" they get the "Your target's defense was too strong to kill!" message.

Bodyguard
- If you successfully protect someone, you cannot be saved in any way meaning you will always die if you successfully protect someone.
- If your target is attacked by multiple killing roles you will attack one in this following order: Town Killing > Mafia Killing > Neutral Killing.
- If your target is attacked by a Town member only you will die.

Crusader > Marshal
- Crusader has been replaced by Marshal, role card in spoilers.
Spoiler: Marshal

Alignment: Town Protective
Abilities: Protect one person each night, scaring away one visitor with malicious intent.

Attributes:
- You will know if you scared away a visitor.
- If your target is visited by multiple roles with malicious intent, only one will be scared away: Mafia Deception (Disguising, Framing, Hypnotizing, Cleaning, Forging) > Neutral Evil (Controlling) > Mafia Support (Blackmailing, Role Blocking) > Town Support (Role Blocking) > Neutral Killing (Dousing, Rampaging, Attacking) > Mafia Killing (Attacking).
- You may not protect yourself.
- You are role block and control immune.

Special Attributes:
Attack: None
Defense: None

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Trapper > Botanist
- Trapper has been replaced by Botanist, role card in spoilers.
Spoiler: Botanist

Alignment: Town Protective
Abilities: Put a plant at one person each night.

Attributes:
- Your plants do not protect your target until the next night.
- If a player with a plant is attacked, the plant will heal them, but all plants planted by you including those who’s protection has not kicked in, will wilt and die.
- Your plants will naturally wilt and die two nights after being planted (N1 Plants, N3 Wilts).
- The plant’s healing methods appear identical to the Doctor, but the plants do not give out notifications about being attacked but healed.
- If you die, all of your plants will wilt and die.
- You may not target yourself.

Special Attributes:
Attack: None
Defense: None

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Credits
- Botanist: JammySplodge

Priority for Town Protectives: Bodyguard > Marshal > Botanist > Doctor
Last edited by BasicFourLife on Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:58 am, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby DemonicKraken » Sat May 26, 2018 6:05 am

Alright, lets see here...

Doctor: First part I find pretty unnecessary, second part is alright.

Bodyguard: Yeah, sure. This is alright, I guess.

Crusader>Marshal: okimfinewiththisbutcanwejustcallitghostpleaseghostsoundscoolerokthanks

Trapper>Botanist: Sure, this is cool.
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby DragonClaw66 » Sat May 26, 2018 6:25 am

BasicFourLife wrote:This thread is meant to overhaul the entirety of Town Protectives (Doctor, Bodyguard, Crusader and Trapper) in ToS.

Doctor
- If a killing role attacks a target healed by a Doctor, instead of "no message" they get the "Your target's defense was too strong to kill!" message. Agreed. Make it apply to the Potion Master and Guardian Angel as well (for consistency's sake).
- Doctor's role card is updated with a new attribute "You will know if your target was attacked." to help newer players in understanding the Doctor more effectively. I thought this already existed, but yeah.

Bodyguard
- If you successfully protect someone, you cannot be saved in any way meaning you will always die if you successfully protect someone. Yes. Please.

Crusader > Marshal I don't really care on this part. I've never really liked Marshal.
- Crusader has been replaced by Marshal, role card in spoilers.
Spoiler: Marshal

Alignment: Town Protective
Abilities: Protect one person each night, scaring away one visitor with malicious intent.

Attributes:
- You will know if you scared away a visitor.
- If your target is visited by multiple roles with malicious intent, only one will be scared away: Mafia Deception (Disguising, Framing, Hypnotizing, Cleaning, Forging) > Neutral Evil (Controlling) > Mafia Support (Blackmailing, Role Blocking) > Town Support (Role Blocking, Transporting) > Neutral Killing (Dousing, Rampaging, Attacking) > Mafia Killing (Attacking).
- You may not protect yourself.
- You are role block and control immune.

Special Attributes:
Attack: None
Defense: None

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Trapper > Botanist This looks cool. Yes.
- Trapper has been replaced by Botanist, role card in spoilers.
Spoiler: Botanist

Alignment: Town Protective
Abilities: Choose to plant plants at two houses each night.

Attributes:
- Your plants take one night to grow before they can heal someone from being attacked, but they will still wilt and die if someone with another plant is attacked.
- If someone with a plant is attacked, the plant will heal them however all plants which you have planted will wilt and die.
- You may not plant a plant at your own house.
- You only have 8 plants in total.

Special Attributes:
Attack: None
Defense: None

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.
Last edited by DragonClaw66 on Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby TheGator » Sat May 26, 2018 8:25 am

Gator's Awesome Feedback!

Doctor: This helps NK's allot so doing this could increase their win rate /Support
Bodyguard: Seems fair...
Crusader - Marshal: Meh
Trapper/Botanist: .... Trapper just needs a few minor nerfs. Once the nerfs have been given Trapper will be fine

How about replacing Crusader with Botanist?
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby fwogcarf » Sat May 26, 2018 8:28 am

Doctor: I guess it's fine because now scum can claim doc more easily
Bodyguard: Does that mean you DON'T kill someone? If so /nosupport
Crusader<Marshal: This is fine
Trapper<Botanist: /nosupport because Trapper can actually kill people, while Botanist has a really hard time healing people (botanist is literally a nerfed doc)
Spoiler: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M79vYZu-WIKrW0WQ0pCISBq66DeBfSir5T7RCuy0OWY/edit?usp=sharing
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby BasicFourLife » Sat May 26, 2018 8:30 am

fwogcarf wrote:Doctor: I guess it's fine because now scum can claim doc more easily
Bodyguard: Does that mean you DON'T kill someone? If so /nosupport
Crusader<Marshal: This is fine
Trapper<Botanist: /nosupport because Trapper can actually kill people, while Botanist has a really hard time healing people (botanist is literally a nerfed doc)

Botanists plants are auto vests which take 1 night charge before they take effect and still stay after Botanist dies
Also the BG change makes it so GA and Doc cant save it if it successfully protects someone
TheGator wrote:Gator's Awesome Feedback!

Doctor: This helps NK's allot so doing this could increase their win rate /Support
Bodyguard: Seems fair...
Crusader - Marshal: Meh
Trapper/Botanist: .... Trapper just needs a few minor nerfs. Once the nerfs have been given Trapper will be fine

How about replacing Crusader with Botanist?

Botanist is literally a Trapper which doesn't kill and doesn't have TI abilites and has much better mechanics and is much more fun and fair.. it is basically a nerfed Trapper
Last edited by BasicFourLife on Sat May 26, 2018 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby TheGator » Sat May 26, 2018 8:30 am

fwogcarf wrote:Doctor: I guess it's fine because now scum can claim doc more easily
Bodyguard: Does that mean you DON'T kill someone? If so /nosupport It means once you protect someone you cannot be saved.
Crusader<Marshal: This is fine
Trapper<Botanist: /nosupport because Trapper can actually kill people, while Botanist has a really hard time healing people (botanist is literally a nerfed doc)
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby fwogcarf » Sat May 26, 2018 8:31 am

TheGator wrote:
fwogcarf wrote:Doctor: I guess it's fine because now scum can claim doc more easily
Bodyguard: Does that mean you DON'T kill someone? If so /nosupport It means once you protect someone you cannot be saved.That does not help define this change in any way shape or form
Crusader<Marshal: This is fine
Trapper<Botanist: /nosupport because Trapper can actually kill people, while Botanist has a really hard time healing people (botanist is literally a nerfed doc)
Spoiler: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M79vYZu-WIKrW0WQ0pCISBq66DeBfSir5T7RCuy0OWY/edit?usp=sharing
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby TheGator » Sat May 26, 2018 8:32 am

BasicFourLife wrote:
fwogcarf wrote:Doctor: I guess it's fine because now scum can claim doc more easily
Bodyguard: Does that mean you DON'T kill someone? If so /nosupport
Crusader<Marshal: This is fine
Trapper<Botanist: /nosupport because Trapper can actually kill people, while Botanist has a really hard time healing people (botanist is literally a nerfed doc)

Botanists plants are auto vests which take 1 night charge before they take effect and still stay after Botanist dies
Also the BG change makes it so GA and Doc cant save it if it successfully protects someone
TheGator wrote:Gator's Awesome Feedback!

Doctor: This helps NK's allot so doing this could increase their win rate /Support
Bodyguard: Seems fair...
Crusader - Marshal: Meh
Trapper/Botanist: .... Trapper just needs a few minor nerfs. Once the nerfs have been given Trapper will be fine

How about replacing Crusader with Botanist?

Botanist is literally a Trapper which doesn't kill and doesn't have TI abilites and has much better mechanics and is much more fun and fair.. it is basically a nerfed Trapper



Well that's cool for you to think so but the trapper I know secretly traps a Town role then dies.
Then during like the end game where it's I don't know the Trapped medium and the mafioso, town wins.

fwogcarf wrote:
TheGator wrote:
fwogcarf wrote:Doctor: I guess it's fine because now scum can claim doc more easily
Bodyguard: Does that mean you DON'T kill someone? If so /nosupport It means once you protect someone you cannot be saved.That does not help define this change in any way shape or form
How so?
Crusader<Marshal: This is fine
Trapper<Botanist: /nosupport because Trapper can actually kill people, while Botanist has a really hard time healing people (botanist is literally a nerfed doc)
Last edited by Guest on Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby BasicFourLife » Sat May 26, 2018 8:34 am

TheGator wrote:
BasicFourLife wrote:
fwogcarf wrote:Doctor: I guess it's fine because now scum can claim doc more easily
Bodyguard: Does that mean you DON'T kill someone? If so /nosupport
Crusader<Marshal: This is fine
Trapper<Botanist: /nosupport because Trapper can actually kill people, while Botanist has a really hard time healing people (botanist is literally a nerfed doc)

Botanists plants are auto vests which take 1 night charge before they take effect and still stay after Botanist dies
Also the BG change makes it so GA and Doc cant save it if it successfully protects someone
TheGator wrote:Gator's Awesome Feedback!

Doctor: This helps NK's allot so doing this could increase their win rate /Support
Bodyguard: Seems fair...
Crusader - Marshal: Meh
Trapper/Botanist: .... Trapper just needs a few minor nerfs. Once the nerfs have been given Trapper will be fine

How about replacing Crusader with Botanist?

Botanist is literally a Trapper which doesn't kill and doesn't have TI abilites and has much better mechanics and is much more fun and fair.. it is basically a nerfed Trapper



Well that's cool for you to think so but the trapper I know secretly traps a Town role then dies.
Then during like the end game where it's I don't know the Trapped medium and the mafioso, town wins.

TPs who can kill evils after they die, or can kill evils without dying themselves are flawed
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby TheGator » Sat May 26, 2018 8:40 am

You may consider them flawed but you know a good trapper overhaul would be like can only kill when they die and can only trap one person.
Making it fair yet balanced.
This way it can "ONLY" Protect when dead.
The current trapper seems way too much like TK to me.
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby Zee235 » Sat May 26, 2018 7:23 pm

Overall I like ir responses are in red

BasicFourLife wrote:This thread is meant to overhaul the entirety of Town Protectives (Doctor, Bodyguard, Crusader and Trapper) in ToS.

Doctor
- If a killing role attacks a target healed by a Doctor, instead of "no message" they get the "Your target's defense was too strong to kill!" message. I am alright with this change but will the attacked target still know they are healed?

Bodyguard
- If you successfully protect someone, you cannot be saved in any way meaning you will always die if you successfully protect someone. I LOVE IT. We can finally take away the OP doc/bg combo

Crusader > Marshal
- Crusader has been replaced by Marshal, role card in spoilers.
Spoiler: Marshal

Alignment: Town Protective
Abilities: Protect one person each night, scaring away one visitor with malicious intent.

Attributes:
- You will know if you scared away a visitor.
- If your target is visited by multiple roles with malicious intent, only one will be scared away: Mafia Deception (Disguising, Framing, Hypnotizing, Cleaning, Forging) > Neutral Evil (Controlling) > Mafia Support (Blackmailing, Role Blocking) > Town Support (Role Blocking, Transporting) > Neutral Killing (Dousing, Rampaging, Attacking) > Mafia Killing (Attacking). Will the NK attack/douse the marshal instead? If not then this would give nks an unfair disadvantage
- You may not protect yourself.
- You are role block and control immune. why exactly is he roleblock and control immune?

Special Attributes:
Attack: None
Defense: None

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Trapper > Botanist
- Trapper has been replaced by Botanist, role card in spoilers.
Spoiler: Botanist

Alignment: Town Protective
Abilities: Choose to plant plants at two houses each night.

Attributes:
- Your plants take one night to grow before they can heal someone from being attacked, but they will still wilt and die if someone with another plant is attacked.
- If someone with a plant is attacked, the plant will heal them however all plants which you have planted will wilt and die.
- You may not plant a plant at your own house.
- You only have 8 plants in total. i only see this as a nerfed doctor

Special Attributes:
Attack: None
Defense: None

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Credits
- Botanist: JammySplodge
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby Sl007 » Sat May 26, 2018 10:20 pm

The doctor one is ok

The bodyguard one is nice but breaks up one of the oldest power combos in history

The crusader just needs to be reworked

Trapper is fine I’d rather se botanist added as a new role entirely
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby BasicFourLife » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:56 am

Zee235 wrote:Overall I like ir responses are in red

BasicFourLife wrote:This thread is meant to overhaul the entirety of Town Protectives (Doctor, Bodyguard, Crusader and Trapper) in ToS.

Doctor
- If a killing role attacks a target healed by a Doctor, instead of "no message" they get the "Your target's defense was too strong to kill!" message. I am alright with this change but will the attacked target still know they are healed?Yap

Bodyguard
- If you successfully protect someone, you cannot be saved in any way meaning you will always die if you successfully protect someone. I LOVE IT. We can finally take away the OP doc/bg combo

Crusader > Marshal
- Crusader has been replaced by Marshal, role card in spoilers.
Spoiler: Marshal

Alignment: Town Protective
Abilities: Protect one person each night, scaring away one visitor with malicious intent.

Attributes:
- You will know if you scared away a visitor.
- If your target is visited by multiple roles with malicious intent, only one will be scared away: Mafia Deception (Disguising, Framing, Hypnotizing, Cleaning, Forging) > Neutral Evil (Controlling) > Mafia Support (Blackmailing, Role Blocking) > Town Support (Role Blocking, Transporting) > Neutral Killing (Dousing, Rampaging, Attacking) > Mafia Killing (Attacking). Will the NK attack/douse the marshal instead? If not then this would give nks an unfair disadvantage
- You may not protect yourself.
- You are role block and control immune. why exactly is he roleblock and control immune?Because this role otherwise will create infinite paradoxes ex: Escort tries to role block Marshal, Marshal guards Escort, Witch controls Escort to rb someone else. (Witch controls Escort to rb someone else, then Marshal scares Witch away then Escory role blocks Marshal who then never should havw guarddd Escort meaning Witch controls Escort but then Marshal wouldn’t be role blocked etc)

Special Attributes:
Attack: None
Defense: None

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Trapper > Botanist
- Trapper has been replaced by Botanist, role card in spoilers.
Spoiler: Botanist

Alignment: Town Protective
Abilities: Choose to plant plants at two houses each night.

Attributes:
- Your plants take one night to grow before they can heal someone from being attacked, but they will still wilt and die if someone with another plant is attacked.
- If someone with a plant is attacked, the plant will heal them however all plants which you have planted will wilt and die.
- You may not plant a plant at your own house.
- You only have 8 plants in total. i only see this as a nerfed doctorThe plants are auto vests and u can protect multiple people at night

Special Attributes:
Attack: None
Defense: None

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Credits
- Botanist: JammySplodge


Edit: Changes were made to BG and added priorities.
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby Blackwolfe99 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:57 am

BasicFourLife wrote:This thread is meant to overhaul the entirety of Town Protectives (Doctor, Bodyguard, Crusader and Trapper) in ToS.

Doctor
- If a killing role attacks a target healed by a Doctor, instead of "no message" they get the "Your target's defense was too strong to kill!" message. So back to the old system then?

Bodyguard
- If you successfully protect someone, you cannot be saved in any way meaning you will always die if you successfully protect someone.
- If your target is attacked by multiple killing roles you will attack one in this following order: Town Killing > Mafia Killing > Neutral Killing.
- If your target is attacked by a Town member only you will die.
Alright with this, 1 for 1 still favors town
Crusader > Marshal
- Crusader has been replaced by Marshal, role card in spoilers.
Spoiler: Marshal

Alignment: Town Protective
Abilities: Protect one person each night, scaring away one visitor with malicious intent.

Attributes:
- You will know if you scared away a visitor.
- If your target is visited by multiple roles with malicious intent, only one will be scared away: Mafia Deception (Disguising, Framing, Hypnotizing, Cleaning, Forging) > Neutral Evil (Controlling) > Mafia Support (Blackmailing, Role Blocking) > Town Support (Role Blocking, Transporting) > Neutral Killing (Dousing, Rampaging, Attacking) > Mafia Killing (Attacking).
- You may not protect yourself.
- You are role block and control immune.

Special Attributes:
Attack: None
Defense: None

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Trapper > Botanist
- Trapper has been replaced by Botanist, role card in spoilers.
Spoiler: Botanist

Alignment: Town Protective
Abilities: Choose to plant plants at two houses each night.

Attributes:
- Your plants take one night to grow before they can heal someone from being attacked, but they will still wilt and die if someone with another plant is attacked.
- If someone with a plant is attacked, the plant will heal them however all plants which you have planted will wilt and die.
- You may not plant a plant at your own house.
- You only have 8 plants in total.

Special Attributes:
Attack: None
Defense: None

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Credits
- Botanist: JammySplodge

Priority for Town Protectives: Bodyguard > Marshal > Botanist > Doctor

I don't see Crusader or Trapper being replaced, but if Marshal and Botanist were added as roles, I'd be happy with that.
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby DemonicKraken » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:10 am

Blackwolfe99 wrote:
BasicFourLife wrote:This thread is meant to overhaul the entirety of Town Protectives (Doctor, Bodyguard, Crusader and Trapper) in ToS.

Doctor
- If a killing role attacks a target healed by a Doctor, instead of "no message" they get the "Your target's defense was too strong to kill!" message. So back to the old system then?

Bodyguard
- If you successfully protect someone, you cannot be saved in any way meaning you will always die if you successfully protect someone.
- If your target is attacked by multiple killing roles you will attack one in this following order: Town Killing > Mafia Killing > Neutral Killing.
- If your target is attacked by a Town member only you will die.
Alright with this, 1 for 1 still favors town
Crusader > Marshal
- Crusader has been replaced by Marshal, role card in spoilers.
Spoiler: Marshal

Alignment: Town Protective
Abilities: Protect one person each night, scaring away one visitor with malicious intent.

Attributes:
- You will know if you scared away a visitor.
- If your target is visited by multiple roles with malicious intent, only one will be scared away: Mafia Deception (Disguising, Framing, Hypnotizing, Cleaning, Forging) > Neutral Evil (Controlling) > Mafia Support (Blackmailing, Role Blocking) > Town Support (Role Blocking, Transporting) > Neutral Killing (Dousing, Rampaging, Attacking) > Mafia Killing (Attacking).
- You may not protect yourself.
- You are role block and control immune.

Special Attributes:
Attack: None
Defense: None

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Trapper > Botanist
- Trapper has been replaced by Botanist, role card in spoilers.
Spoiler: Botanist

Alignment: Town Protective
Abilities: Choose to plant plants at two houses each night.

Attributes:
- Your plants take one night to grow before they can heal someone from being attacked, but they will still wilt and die if someone with another plant is attacked.
- If someone with a plant is attacked, the plant will heal them however all plants which you have planted will wilt and die.
- You may not plant a plant at your own house.
- You only have 8 plants in total.

Special Attributes:
Attack: None
Defense: None

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Credits
- Botanist: JammySplodge

Priority for Town Protectives: Bodyguard > Marshal > Botanist > Doctor

I don't see Crusader or Trapper being replaced, but if Marshal and Botanist were added as roles, I'd be happy with that.

Trapper I cant say about because I dont know much about it.

Crusader can get outta here.
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby DestructionII » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:32 am

Question about the Botanist. What happens if both people with plants are attacked? Do both plants heal them and no plant dies or am I wrong?
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby Blackwolfe99 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:01 pm

DestructionII wrote:Question about the Botanist. What happens if both people with plants are attacked? Do both plants heal them and no plant dies or am I wrong?

My understanding is both heal and both plants die.
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby DestructionII » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:08 pm

Thanks Blackwolfe. You're always helpful :-)
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby BasicFourLife » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:47 am

Blackwolfe99 wrote:
DestructionII wrote:Question about the Botanist. What happens if both people with plants are attacked? Do both plants heal them and no plant dies or am I wrong?

My understanding is both heal and both plants die.

If multiple people with plants are attacked ON THE SAME NIGHT the plants heal all targts and all of them die.
I am kindly telling you to fuck off. Thank you.

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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby Blackwolfe99 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:58 am

BasicFourLife wrote:
Blackwolfe99 wrote:
DestructionII wrote:Question about the Botanist. What happens if both people with plants are attacked? Do both plants heal them and no plant dies or am I wrong?

My understanding is both heal and both plants die.

If multiple people with plants are attacked ON THE SAME NIGHT the plants heal all targts and all of them die.

Pretty sure that's what he was asking about BFL.
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EvilPudding wrote:Interesting idea and it is balanced like the WW

/support
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby fwogcarf » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:43 am

I still stand by what I said way before
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby ManateeDude » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:40 pm

Make all TPs (besides botanist) nonconsecutive. Otherwise /support
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby Zee235 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:49 pm

ManateeDude wrote:Make all TPs (besides botanist) nonconsecutive. Otherwise /support


That would make the tp's horribly up.
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Re: Town Protective Overhaul

Postby ManateeDude » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:55 am

Zee235 wrote:
ManateeDude wrote:Make all TPs (besides botanist) nonconsecutive. Otherwise /support


That would make the tp's horribly up.


It gets rid of follow the cop/jailor strategies. So it really doesnt
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