Infector

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

What would you give this role?

10 - Gator-Awesome!
2
8%
9 - Holy Smokes, This is Great!
1
4%
8 - This seems like a very well and thought out role
1
4%
7 - This role seems fine, I'd totally play this role!
4
16%
6 - I have a few issues but overall it's great
1
4%
5 - I have a few issues but overall it's good
3
12%
4 - I have a few issues but overall it's meh
1
4%
3 - Could be better
1
4%
2 - Trashy, but could be better with improvement
1
4%
1 - Can't be Fixed, scrap it!
1
4%
0 - Seththeking Material
9
36%
 
Total votes : 25

Infector

Postby TheGator » Wed May 16, 2018 7:05 am

Infector

Alignment: Neutral Killing

Stats:
Atk: Powerful
Def: Basic
Pri: 1st

During the night Infect up to 2 players.
If the player already has the Infection you will lower their Infection control by 1 instead.
You cannot target the same person as 2 players.

"Infection"
(Additional Information!)

Infection control is at 3
Infection lowers by 1 every night
If they are Roleblocked there Infection Control is lowered by 1.
If the Infection control is at 0 they die
While someone is infected a doctor can remove the Infection from them completely, but only if the person's Infection Control would reach zero the night the doctor visited them
People who are Infected show up as Infector to Sheriff and Investigator


Attributes: Immune to the Infection, Immune to Roleblock

Night Messages/Day Messages:
You died of an Infection!
Someone realized you were infected, your infection has been cured!
We found (Player) dead in their home last night
they died of an Infection!


Sheriff: Your target is an Infector!
Investigator: Your target feels a little off
They could be a Framer, Arsonist or Infector
Consigliere/Witch: Your target likes to spread and watch an Infection grow, they must be an Infector!

Spoiler: KPN = 1.2
Infection

Night 1: Infect Player A and Player B
Night 2: Infect Player C and Player D
Night 3: Infect Player E and Player F
Night 4: Infect Player G and Player H (2 Kills)
Night 5: Infect Player I and Player J (2 Kills)
Night 6: Infect Player G and Player H (4 Kills)

8 Kills for 6 Nights
During the first 3 nights no one dies.

3 Days = .3

6 KPN Times 1.3 = 7.8 KPN to a Normal SK which means.

Infectors KPN is 1.2
Last edited by TheGator on Tue May 22, 2018 10:13 am, edited 28 times in total.
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Re: Infector

Postby fwogcarf » Wed May 16, 2018 7:10 am

One question: Will the target know which part of the virus to prevent?
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Re: Infector

Postby TheGator » Wed May 16, 2018 7:18 am

fwogcarf wrote:One question: Will the target know which part of the virus to prevent?


Nope, they don't even receive a notification of their infection until they are dead
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Re: Infector

Postby fwogcarf » Wed May 16, 2018 7:26 am

TheGator wrote:
fwogcarf wrote:One question: Will the target know which part of the virus to prevent?


Nope, they don't even receive a notification of their infection until they are dead

Alright, let me give you a critique of the role as a whole.
This is a little OP because players will have to waste nights trying to figure out if they have the virus or not, and if they do, what condition they would have to replace. It makes the game too focused on this role (more than any other NKs). Also, some roles can't visit at all, like Veteran, so those roles are automatically killed off since they can't stop their Hunger, if they have it. I would recommend this:

-Your target will receive a notification the night after you infected them with this message: "You feel a pain in your body." (or something like that, I'm not good with flavour)

The rest of it does look balanced to me as it stands
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Re: Infector

Postby TheGator » Wed May 16, 2018 8:11 am

fwogcarf wrote:
TheGator wrote:
fwogcarf wrote:One question: Will the target know which part of the virus to prevent?


Nope, they don't even receive a notification of their infection until they are dead

Alright, let me give you a critique of the role as a whole.
This is a little OP because players will have to waste nights trying to figure out if they have the virus or not, and if they do, what condition they would have to replace. It makes the game too focused on this role (more than any other NKs). Also, some roles can't visit at all, like Veteran, so those roles are automatically killed off since they can't stop their Hunger, if they have it. I would recommend this:

-Your target will receive a notification the night after you infected them with this message: "You feel a pain in your body." (or something like that, I'm not good with flavour)

The rest of it does look balanced to me as it stands




You actually gave me a good idea without even saying it hold on


I made it so Doctor can remove the infection completely
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Re: Infector

Postby player458 » Wed May 16, 2018 9:01 am

TheGator wrote:
fwogcarf wrote:
TheGator wrote:
fwogcarf wrote:One question: Will the target know which part of the virus to prevent?


Nope, they don't even receive a notification of their infection until they are dead

Alright, let me give you a critique of the role as a whole.
This is a little OP because players will have to waste nights trying to figure out if they have the virus or not, and if they do, what condition they would have to replace. It makes the game too focused on this role (more than any other NKs). Also, some roles can't visit at all, like Veteran, so those roles are automatically killed off since they can't stop their Hunger, if they have it. I would recommend this:

-Your target will receive a notification the night after you infected them with this message: "You feel a pain in your body." (or something like that, I'm not good with flavour)

The rest of it does look balanced to me as it stands




You actually gave me a good idea without even saying it hold on


I made it so Doctor can remove the infection completely


When the Poisoner poisons someone they can alert the Doctor but with this role they won't receive any message so you have to be really lucky to have a Doctor visit you or you're dead meat.
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Re: Infector

Postby TheGator » Wed May 16, 2018 10:20 am

player458 wrote:
TheGator wrote:
fwogcarf wrote:
TheGator wrote:
fwogcarf wrote:One question: Will the target know which part of the virus to prevent?


Nope, they don't even receive a notification of their infection until they are dead

Alright, let me give you a critique of the role as a whole.
This is a little OP because players will have to waste nights trying to figure out if they have the virus or not, and if they do, what condition they would have to replace. It makes the game too focused on this role (more than any other NKs). Also, some roles can't visit at all, like Veteran, so those roles are automatically killed off since they can't stop their Hunger, if they have it. I would recommend this:

-Your target will receive a notification the night after you infected them with this message: "You feel a pain in your body." (or something like that, I'm not good with flavour)

The rest of it does look balanced to me as it stands




You actually gave me a good idea without even saying it hold on


I made it so Doctor can remove the infection completely


When the Poisoner poisons someone they can alert the Doctor but with this role they won't receive any message so you have to be really lucky to have a Doctor visit you or you're dead meat.


Which is fine, it is a slow Neutral Killer anyway.
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Re: Infector

Postby SkyW » Wed May 16, 2018 5:00 pm

Select two people and they die much later... 3 days later was it? Let's look at this for a second.

n1- Select John Wick and Batman, they will now die in 3 days less they prevent it.
n2- Select William Phipps and Steven hawking, they will now die in 3 days less they prevent it. (John and Batman are at 2)

Now, to get the maximum KPN, the infector would do this:

Spoiler: n3- Select Spider-man and SkyW, they will now die in 3 days less they prevent it. (John and Batman are at 1) (William Phipps and Steven Hawking are at 2)
n4- Select Mr. Krabbs and Darth Vader, they will now die in 3 days less they prevent it. John Wick and Batman die at this stage from natural infection. (William Phipps and Steven Hawking are now at 1) (Spider-man and SkyW are now at 2) [2 kills total]
n5- Select Spider-man and SkyW, they die from being forced to 0. William Phipps and Steven Hawking also die from natural infection. (Mr. Krabbs and Darth Vader are at 2) [6 kills total]
n6- Select Mr. Krabbs and Darth Vader, they die from being forced to 0. However since anyone here would die AT THE FASTEST night 8, this probably won't occur. So that means 8 kills across 6 nights. Exactly 1.3333 KPN uninterrupted.


However if you want the kills to come slightly faster, they could do this:

Spoiler: n3- Select Spider-man and SkyW, they will now die in 3 days less they prevent it. (John and Batman are at 1) (William Phipps and Steven Hawking are at 2)
n4- Select William Phipps and Steven Hawking, they die from being forced to 0. John Wick and Batman also die at this stage from natural infection. (Spider-man and SkyW are now at 2) [4 kill total]
n5- Select Spider-man and SkyW, they die from being forced to 0. [6 kill total]
n6- Select new, the cycle begins again. However since anyone here would die AT THE FASTEST night 8, this probably won't occur. So that means 6 kills across 6 nights. Exactly 1 KPN uninterrupted.


Another possibility:

Spoiler: n3- Select John Wick and Batman, they die from being forced to 0. (William Phipps and Steven Hawking are at 1) [2 kills]
n4- Select Spider-man and SkyW, they will now die in 3 days less they prevent it. William Phipps and Steven Hawking die from natural infection. [4 kills]

Now there's a lot of ways to go from this version of n4, but I won't discuss every single one. Basically it has slightly more than 1 KPN.



Now the problem comes with two very simple things. The "Arsonist" effect and the "Grace Period" effect.

The Arsonist effect is present in every single role that has a "curse" or "douse" type ability where they select someone who will be used in a later event, the problem is that... those people can die. By dying they damage your KPN, and by doing that they make the total evil KPN goes down, which causes evils as a whole to be damaged as town is... well not dying. The faster you kill, the less likely it is that one of them will be killed in the meantime, and the longer you take stacking up the more likely that KPN is to be damaged. That's not the only way to get rid of this specific type of cursed effect, by including other ways to get rid of infection you actually increase the amount at which the KPN goes down significantly. If it has less than one KPN, then it could be fine if it had additional benefits to it. Benefits along the line of hiding/depriving information from the town. But this role doesn't do that, it only kills. And it kills in a similar way to the Arsonist, stockpiling kills to use later. However whereas Arsonist can ignite whenever they need to and will deprive TI's from information. Infector doesn't have that level of control or deception, and potentially has a lower KPN than Arsonist.

You could also compare this to Electrician. It selects people to Electrocute/Infect and when certain requirements are met they will die from that. However Electrician doesn't need to worry about it's KPN being damaged, as a killer can easily cause itself to die by attacking an electrocuted target if they themselves are electrocuted. It also has the ability to force kill someone/will auto force kill when everyone is electrocuted. Infector does have a force kill option, but it's a lot more contrived than the Electrician's "dial M for murder" and it doesn't have a "kill 'em all world is a fuck" type attribute either. Electrician also has the weird similarity to this in that it discouraged visits, but this one does it slightly better. Whereas the threat with Infector is that if they don't stop to not visit they will die, Electrician instead has it so that their death is triggered by visiting or being visited. This can be considered "better" as it removes the control over it's death as someone else can easily force it to happen and the effect doesn't go away after ONE round of not visiting. However in practice, Electrician seems to not discourage visits that much, and so by that same rule, neither will this role.

The Grave Period effect is also present, where as Electrician picks people off as the game progresses to avoid this and Arsonist can make information harder to come by (as well as being able to end the Grace Period whenever they need too), this role can't do that. The Grace Period effect is when there's not much killing going on, so the town thrives as less of it's members are being killed and thus it is able to maintain both majority and more easily come by information from more sources than it would normally have. In the first couple nights where this role pretty much can't kill, the hunt for evils will be a lot more successful and you yourself are in danger of being caught by it. There's also the issue that with the 6/7 night game standard, this will achieve around 1 KPN (or less). So about 1 KPN with an unstoppable grace period might even shorten the game further making it even harder for it to successfully win as it relies on longer games.

(Note: It can also be "overrun" by the mafia if they have a consig find out you're the infector, and then just tell their fellow mafia to take breaks from visiting to avoid death. This can also be initiated by the first "killed by an infection" DA / when they figure out it's an Infector game and the townie thinks they might be infected)

/nosupport

Overall, too weak and inconsistent with it's killing, doesn't introduce anything to the game to help it and gives town a significant boost at the start of the game that it can't really stop.
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Re: Infector

Postby TheGator » Wed May 16, 2018 5:57 pm

Well SkyW you just made my eyes hurt!

Anyway it's actually more consistent then Arsonist is.

Pick 2 targets, can also speed up

Compare:
Night 1
Arsonist Douses Sheriff
Infecter Infects Mafioso and Jailor
Night 2
Arsonist Douses Mafioso
Infecter Infects Jailor and Godfather
Night 3
Arsonist Douses Jailor
Infecter or Infects Medium and Spy

As you can see Infector is alot faster.
Yes I admit this role can be bad at times.
However, you can also confuse town by this too.
Also keep in mind more town is more possible claim space.
Infecter has the ability to get people Doused/Infected faster
Arsonist has the ability to kill/Ignite the people faster
Catch my drift?
Overall this is another Neutral Killing with the same amount of power as the Arsonist.
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Re: Infector

Postby lemonader666 » Wed May 16, 2018 10:54 pm

Spoiler: A usual game lasts 6 days
Assuming everyone dies 2 days later(always stays or always visits)(best outcome)
Assuming the virus control lowers immediately
*1)Visits everyone twice
n1 no kills
n2: 2 kills
n3: no kills
n4: 2 kills
n5: no kills
n6: 2 kills
1 KPN
*2) Visits everyone once
n1: no kills
n2: no kills
n3: 2 kills(n1)
n4: 2 kills(n2)
n5: 2 kills(n3)
n6: 2 kills(n4)
1.(3) KPN
Assuming everyone dies 3 days later
*1) Visits everyone twice
n1: no kills
n2: 2 kills
n3: no kills
n4: 2 kills
n5: no kills
n6: 2 kills
1 KPN
*2) Visits everyone once
n1: no kills
n2: no kills
n3: no kills
n4: 2 kills
n5: 2 kills
n6: 2 kills
1 KPN
***Assuming lowers next night
*1)visits everyone twice
n1: no kills
n2: no kills
n3: 2 kills
n4: no kills
n5: no kills
n6: 2 kills
0.(6) KPN
*2) Visits everyone once
n1: no kills
n2: no kills
n3: no kills
n4: 2 kills(n1)
n5: 2 kills(n2)
n6: 2 kills(n3)
1 KPN
*Assuming dies 3 days later
*1) Visits everyone twice
n1: no kills
n2: no kills
n3: 2 kills
n4: no kills
n5: no kills
n6: 2 kills
0.(6) KPN
*2) Visits everyone once
n1: no kills
n2: no kills
n3: no kills
n4: no kills
n5: 2 kills
n6: 2 kills
0.(6) KPN

If I calculated it correctly, when there are no roleblockers or doctors, the best KPN rate is 1.(3) if everyone either only visits or only stay home + the virus control lowers immediately + you visit everyone once and the worst KPN rate is 0.(6) if everyone swaps between visiting and staying home + the virus control lowers the next night, but there's like only 1 situation where you have 1.(3) KPN and a bunch of situations where you have 0.(6) KPN. The powerful attack doesn't help. It's still weak like arso.
This just seems complicated for no reason, it's just a weird arso.
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Re: Infector

Postby rdoukkali » Thu May 17, 2018 12:22 am

To be honest I’d just scrap the hunger and thirst, just to increase your KPN.
It seems pretty decent then, with a high killing power that only hits half way through the game.
I definitely like the prospect of losing an infection to speed up someone’s death - You’ve got to weigh it up.

Any idea on invest results?
Sheriff can find Sk and WW but not arso, so id go with Not Suspicious
As for invest - Maybe put it in with Medium/Janitor/Retri?
And some flavour text for Consig

Just some thoughts, it could be good without Hunger and Thirst.
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Re: Infector

Postby TheGator » Thu May 17, 2018 6:40 am

Ok so @Tuff-Lemon @SkyW


Do you think if I just made it Infection without the visiting mechanic and only the die 3 nights would it be good?
Or OP?

Do you guys have any thoughts towards making this better?
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Re: Infector

Postby TheGator » Tue May 22, 2018 6:09 am

Guys I have a cool poll, and I would like so more feedback.
Or at least a comment saying "Good Job Gator" if you have no Feedback to give.

Also keep in mind that the Infector gives the Infection control during the night they Infect someone, meaning you do not remove an Infection control towards them during the night they are first infected
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Re: Infector

Postby TheGator » Fri May 25, 2018 6:21 am

Gator wants some Feedback, if you like it and don't really have any feedback to give then say this:
"Gator I love and support this so much ill vote for it in the next TG voting poll!"

And that's good enough for me :)
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Re: Infector

Postby TheGator » Thu May 31, 2018 3:11 pm

This is now in the TG poll, during voting phase vote for this role or it will infect you!
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Re: Infector

Postby BasicFourLife » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:42 am

It is an okay role but a few issues

Remove this
- If they are Roleblocked there Infection Control is lowered by 1.

Why does this role have to soft counter Escort who is already a weak Town role, remove it completely unnecessary.

- People who are Infected show up as Infector to Sheriff and Investigator.

Please not another TI soft counter like Arsonist.. btw this role is too similar to the Arsonist and we already have Arsonist so I'd rather not have this.
I am kindly telling you to fuck off. Thank you.

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Re: Infector

Postby TheGator » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:29 am

BasicFourLife wrote:It is an okay role but a few issues

Remove this
- If they are Roleblocked there Infection Control is lowered by 1.

Why does this role have to soft counter Escort who is already a weak Town role, remove it completely unnecessary.

- People who are Infected show up as Infector to Sheriff and Investigator.

Please not another TI soft counter like Arsonist.. btw this role is too similar to the Arsonist and we already have Arsonist so I'd rather not have this.


1) You do realize not just escort roleblocks right?
2) it should have this based on how slow it is
3) this is not too too similar to Arsonist, it has a different style of play.
It's similar in ways sure, but I wouldn't compare them as the same.
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Re: Infector

Postby TheGator » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:09 am

Ok guys quick!

Messages the TG mods and say this:

I want the Infector roll back into the poll, Seththeking is a Cuck!

Also if something happens to me I want one of you to repost this role under your name!
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Re: Infector

Postby BasicFourLife » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:11 am

TheGator wrote:Ok guys quick!

Messages the TG mods and say this:

I want the Infector roll back into the poll, Seththeking is a Cuck!

Also if something happens to me I want one of you to repost this role under your name!

How about no.. Seth.. you don’t need to fake who you are.
I am kindly telling you to fuck off. Thank you.

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Re: Infector

Postby TheGator » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:13 am

BasicFourLife wrote:
TheGator wrote:Ok guys quick!

Messages the TG mods and say this:

I want the Infector roll back into the poll, Seththeking is a Cuck!

Also if something happens to me I want one of you to repost this role under your name!

How about no.. Seth.. you don’t need to fake who you are.


I do need to fake who I am, I have a criminal record so I have to pose as Seth.

Thanks for asking.
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Re: Infector

Postby EvilPudding » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:40 am

Investigator result seems too sus. This is just poisoner that can kill in 2 nights and can infect 2 at a time.

/nosupport
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Re: Infector

Postby TheGator » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:03 am

EvilPudding wrote:Investigator result seems too sus. This is just poisoner that can kill in 2 nights and can infect 2 at a time.

/nosupport


It's 3 nights...
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Re: Infector

Postby EvilPudding » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:06 pm

TheGator wrote:
EvilPudding wrote:Investigator result seems too sus. This is just poisoner that can kill in 2 nights and can infect 2 at a time.

/nosupport


It's 3 nights...


it said 2 you probably edited it lmaoo
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Re: Infector

Postby TheGator » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:54 pm

EvilPudding wrote:
TheGator wrote:
EvilPudding wrote:Investigator result seems too sus. This is just poisoner that can kill in 2 nights and can infect 2 at a time.

/nosupport


It's 3 nights...


it said 2 you probably edited it lmaoo


You gain the control and it starts at 3.

So it takes 3 nights to kill them.
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Re: Infector

Postby SweetLionButt » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:45 pm

DO YOU EVEN INVEST RESULTS.

Its Framer/Vampire/Jester/Hex Master
Or Arsonist/Crusader/Bodyguard/GodFather

ARSONIST AND FRAMER ARE NOT IN THE SAME RESULTS SO EITHER:

Framer/Vampire/Jester/Hex Master/Infector
OR
Arsonist/Crusader/Bodyguard/GodFather/Infector
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