Arsonist Overhaul (Open-Discussion)

[K1llthestory]

3 kpn per night on top of 1 mafia kpn. if you were to ignite every other night actually thats still 2.5 kpn per night.

[lemonader666]

3 kpn per night on top of 1 mafia kpn. if you were to ignite every other night actually thats still 2.5 kpn per night.

3 kills every 4 night(if ignites immediately afterwards)
Still the same
1 charge n1
2 charges n2(if haven't doused n1)
3 charges n3(if haven't doused on n1 or n2)

[K1llthestory]

oh thats just blatantly stupid. minor change that would change the way arsonist is played but wouldnt actually fix the broken role.

bad.

[BasicFourLife]

Completely unrelated to the topic, 49 edits in a day?

Yea, had to edit it a lot

I will answer all comments in like 8h. So for now I gtg

/Nosupport Arsonist is fine the way it is

I mostly always win as Arsonist unless I second guess my self and decide not to Ignite.
Because Then I Lose....

Looking at the stats Arsonist has a ~5% and winning it with reliably is quite hard. I can't understand why this Arso buff would be bad. It allows you to get more kills reliably.

[TrueGuardian32]

I actually like this Idea.
The problem I have with arsonist currently is that it is just way too weak. It has the lowest KPN, and is the hardest to use. Making it use a charge mechanic would increase what you could do substantially. It also opens new ways to play.
One way is to save up till N6 and then instant douse remaining players. Then ignite.
Or You could go with a 1 KPN by saving up and dousing 2 people at a time.
And if you want you can save dousing till end game then douse everyone.

/support. Also this isn't necro posting if you were wondering. It's only been 2 days.

[BasicFourLife]

I actually like this Idea.
The problem I have with arsonist currently is that it is just way too weak. It has the lowest KPN, and is the hardest to use. Making it use a charge mechanic would increase what you could do substantially. It also opens new ways to play.
One way is to save up till N6 and then instant douse remaining players. Then ignite.
Or You could go with a 1 KPN by saving up and dousing 2 people at a time.
And if you want you can save dousing till end game then douse everyone.

/support. Also this isn't necro posting if you were wondering. It's only been 2 days.

It has a limit and you can't have 1KPN, because it's impossible still. You can have it near it. This is a active topic, that I still look at every day so dw

[Mystoc]

If a Trapper stalks you they will see everyone you visited, confirming you as the Arsonist (unless you can somehow make a Transporter will while the people you visited are either afk or evils helping you).
Igniting uses 1 douse charge.

i think you meant to say tracker but it would funny if trapper stalked you

its a peaty small buff but doesn't asro have a better win rate then WW buff ww first

2 should be the max this allows the asro not be behind if he gets jailed or roleblocked once

3 is just to forgiving and encourages asros not using douses in hopes TP dies early so so they have nothing to fear at night

[BasicFourLife]

If a Trapper stalks you they will see everyone you visited, confirming you as the Arsonist (unless you can somehow make a Transporter will while the people you visited are either afk or evils helping you).
Igniting uses 1 douse charge.

i think you meant to say tracker but it would funny if trapper stalked you

its a peaty small buff but doesn't asro have a better win rate then WW buff ww first

2 should be the max this allows the asro not be behind if he gets jailed or roleblocked once

3 is just to forgiving and encourages asros not using douses in hopes TP dies early so so they have nothing to fear at night

People have suggested making full moons on odd nights, so WW would get to kill 1 night earlier. I feel like this would be a nice WW buff.

So everybody do you think that Arso should have 2 or 3 douse cap. Leave your thoughts in here

[BasicFourLife]

This is a direct buff to the Arsonist which it deserves.
I changed the stored doused from 3 > 2 and I have made Arso douse immune.
I have also made Arsonist have partial role block immunity, which means Arso douses the role blocker if they get blocked.
This should help the Arsonist quite much.

Credits to GoogleFeud:

When an Arsonist gets roleblocked, they.. get roleblocked, making them waste a whole night.

GoogleFeud's suggestion: When an Arsonist gets rbed, they douse the roleblocker. It's way better than him staying at home.

Original post

[Joacgroso]

But what's the point of dousing the roleblocker if he can prevent you from igniting?

[NeptuneJump]

I see the effort you put into this idea, but it simply doesn't check out, and is unnecessary.

The issue you present of the Arsonistis absolutely real, and needs to be fixed. This, however, is not how it needs to be done, and here's why.

Firstly, the idea of partial role block immunity hurts the arsonist more than it heals, as you would have absolutely no idea who doused you, and the only way to find out is to ignite, wasting a charge, and ultimately killing the person. This also gives town an upper hand, as they can easily check the will and determine that one of them is an arsonist.

Secondly, the charge idea is useless. In order to kill, you must douse, then ignite. By dousing one night after you use a charge, you are still prevented from igniting, as would the recharge.

[BasicFourLife]

I see the effort you put into this idea, but it simply doesn't check out, and is unnecessary.

The issue you present of the Arsonistis absolutely real, and needs to be fixed. This, however, is not how it needs to be done, and here's why.

Firstly, the idea of partial role block immunity hurts the arsonist more than it heals, as you would have absolutely no idea who doused you, and the only way to find out is to ignite, wasting a charge, and ultimately killing the person. This also gives town an upper hand, as they can easily check the will and determine that one of them is an arsonist.

Secondly, the charge idea is useless. In order to kill, you must douse, then ignite. By dousing one night after you use a charge, you are still prevented from igniting, as would the recharge.

Thanks for the feedback, but I feel like the dousing the jailor, escort, consort is something that the Arsonist needs.
And with these changes you can douse 2 people in one night.
This problem that you are talking about, could be easily fixed by letting Arsonist know who is doused each night, by having a Fire emblem or something like that next to them.
This would count only your douses and ignores transes and ignores witches, you still know who they made you douse, but you don't know who other Arsonists have doused.

I've just read through the thread and thought to myself.

What if Arsos could be detected by the sheriff either
a) when the douse
b) when they don't douse
c) when they ignite

One of these 3 could be implemented for the Sheriff.

[BasicFourLife]

bump

Spoiler:

I've just read through the thread and thought to myself.

What if Arsos could be detected by the sheriff either
a) when the douse
b) when they don't douse
c) when they ignite

One of these 3 could be implemented for the Sheriff.

[Joacgroso]

I think they should either be totally undetectable or totally detectable. I don't think they should be only detected if they are interrogated in a certain time.

[BasicFourLife]

I think they should either be totally undetectable or totally detectable. I don't think they should be only detected if they are interrogated in a certain time.

hmm maybe Arso should be detectable, but all doused targets appear as Arsonist also.
This would trump your character if they have diff results.
For example: If you check a doused Mafioso: they'd appear as Arso also.

[BasicFourLife]

bump

Removed the partial role block immunity.

Cuz people disliked it.

[oOYuuArtSuiOo]

Overall change for the Arsonist rework is good.
I'd like to see this implemented in the TG.

/support

[BasicFourLife]

Overall change for the Arsonist rework is good.
I'd like to see this implemented in the TG.

/support

Yap I was told all new ideas will be added in early January by BST, cuz he currently is on a ski trip and doesn't have much time.

[SkorumpowanyGlut]

I like it. However, I would rather increase charge limit to 3 and give him charge at the END of the night, so he can make triple kill n4

[BasicFourLife]

I like it. However, I would rather increase charge limit to 3 and give him charge at the END of the night, so he can make triple kill n4

But Arso would have less KPN with this, meaning he can't douse n1. This change gives Arso some QOL changes and a buff which allows me to store 2 douses. I decided that 3 was too OP, since I also made Arso douse immune.

[BasicFourLife]

I’ve seen other people make threads why Arso beeds to know who he has doused, but here is my reasoning why he should not: “Removed "You know all player who are doused," because this would make this role a little less skillful and would allow for more counter play. Also you already know if you are doused so this wouldn't be needed for yourself.

[fwogcarf]

I like it because every time I'm Arsonist, I lose. Haven't won with Arsonist in a VERRRY long time. This rework makes it so that it's actually a threat again.

[BasicFourLife]

Okay changed the thread moderately enough. You should all re-read the thread.

I’m open to new feedback, since I’m planning on trying to get this added to TG.

[ManateeDude]

very good buff no complaints honestly. also the RB mechanic actually really works and i can see it functioning well in the game
/support

[BasicFourLife]

Added another buff to the Arsonist.

"You may douse and ignite on the same night, should you have the resources to do so. "