Clerk (Mafia Support)

Old Role Ideas

Do you like this role?

Yes, it's perfect
18
58%
Yes, after a few improvements (please specify)
6
19%
Meh, it's ok (please specify)
2
6%
Nah, it needs a lot of work (please specify)
2
6%
Nah, this role will never work (please specify)
3
10%
 
Total votes : 31

Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby BS4125 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:16 pm

Clerk

Alignment -
Mafia Tactical

Summary -
A cunning secretary who directs files to the Mafia

Abilities -
Send files to the Mafia each night

Attributes -
Select yourself at night to activate your ability
When you send the files, all last wills the next day will only be announced to the Mafia (from all kills and lynches)
You can send files 2 times

Goal -
Kill everyone who won't submit to the Mafia

Investigation Results -
Sheriff: Your target is a member of the Mafia
Investigator: Not sure yet
Consigliere: Your target owns files of people's handwritten documents. They must be the Clerk

Messages -
"You have decided not to announce the documents to the town tomorrow"

Last edited by BS4125 on Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby Kirize12 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:33 pm

So, a partial mass janitor?
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby BS4125 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:47 pm

Kirize12 wrote:So, a partial mass janitor?

Kind of. Janitor hides one will and role from everyone but himself but the Clerk can hide multiple wills but not roles from everyone but the Mafia
Also the town won't know when a Clerk has hidden the wills too as everyone will just get the message saying "We could not find a last will" like it does normally

Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby Spectre0 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:53 pm

It's interesting, for sure. I can't say I dislike it. Janitor's main strength is in the obscuring of the role itself, which this obviously can't do. It'd be pretty clear that this exists when three townies die on the same night and all seem to not want to make wills.

It could be a nice addition. Seems pretty balanced.
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby BS4125 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:22 pm

Spectre0 wrote:It's interesting, for sure. I can't say I dislike it. Janitor's main strength is in the obscuring of the role itself, which this obviously can't do. It'd be pretty clear that this exists when three townies die on the same night and all seem to not want to make wills.

It could be a nice addition. Seems pretty balanced.

Thanks. I don't think anything should be changed with it tbh as it looks balanced as it is

Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby BS4125 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:56 am

Could I have more feedback on this please

Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby BlazinIce » Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:03 am

Would be a nice Forger rework, but losing information that wills offer half of the days weakens the town greatly. Maybe 2 uses?
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby BS4125 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:41 am

BlazinIce wrote:Would be a nice Forger rework, but losing information that wills offer half of the days weakens the town greatly. Maybe 2 uses?

Yeh ok, fair enough

Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby BS4125 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:57 am

This is still in early stages so please could I have a few more comments around it please

Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby Damafaud » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:27 am

BS4125 wrote:This is still in early stages so please could I have a few more comments around it please


It's hard to make comment when you can't see anything wrong with it.

Does this role visit itself when it activate its ability, or does it done no visit?
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby BS4125 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:06 am

Damafaud wrote:
BS4125 wrote:This is still in early stages so please could I have a few more comments around it please


It's hard to make comment when you can't see anything wrong with it.

Does this role visit itself when it activate its ability, or does it done no visit?

It activates it's ability by clicking the Moon button which is the same to visiting itself. If it is controlled by a Witch to target itself then it will perform its ability

Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby ChandlerofGEM » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:00 pm

I actually think this shouldn't be its own role, but rather an addition to the Forger. Instead of just rewriting a person's will, they should also gain the benefit of learning the person's original will, giving them some info off of TI's, Mediums, and Jailors that the Town can no longer know.
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby BS4125 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:06 pm

ChandlerofGEM wrote:I actually think this shouldn't be its own role, but rather an addition to the Forger. Instead of just rewriting a person's will, they should also gain the benefit of learning the person's original will, giving them some info off of TI's, Mediums, and Jailors that the Town can no longer know.

This role doesn't read wills, it prevents multiple wills from being displayed to the town. Anyway all Forger needs is more time to edit a will during the day, reading wills as a buff makes it a swingy investigative, moreover some people (not me) think Forger should be removed because typing styles can indicate a Forger

Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby ChandlerofGEM » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:24 pm

BS4125 wrote:
ChandlerofGEM wrote:I actually think this shouldn't be its own role, but rather an addition to the Forger. Instead of just rewriting a person's will, they should also gain the benefit of learning the person's original will, giving them some info off of TI's, Mediums, and Jailors that the Town can no longer know.

This role doesn't read wills, it prevents multiple wills from being displayed to the town. Anyway all Forger needs is more time to edit a will during the day, reading wills as a buff makes it a swingy investigative, moreover some people (not me) think Forger should be removed because typing styles can indicate a Forger

True, but if you're really good as Forger, you'll keep an up-to-date will yourself and switch it into the role you need it to be, substituting dashes and colons as necessary.
I'm just pointing out that most people use the Forger to clear a will, which the Janitor already does, so why not just give this roles main ability (allowing Mafia access to the will, but not Town) to the Forger too?
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby BS4125 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:32 pm

ChandlerofGEM wrote:
BS4125 wrote:
ChandlerofGEM wrote:I actually think this shouldn't be its own role, but rather an addition to the Forger. Instead of just rewriting a person's will, they should also gain the benefit of learning the person's original will, giving them some info off of TI's, Mediums, and Jailors that the Town can no longer know.

This role doesn't read wills, it prevents multiple wills from being displayed to the town. Anyway all Forger needs is more time to edit a will during the day, reading wills as a buff makes it a swingy investigative, moreover some people (not me) think Forger should be removed because typing styles can indicate a Forger

True, but if you're really good as Forger, you'll keep an up-to-date will yourself and switch it into the role you need it to be, substituting dashes and colons as necessary.
I'm just pointing out that most people use the Forger to clear a will, which the Janitor already does, so why not just give this roles main ability (allowing Mafia access to the will, but not Town) to the Forger too?

Just remove Forger and replace it with Clerk really

Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby ChandlerofGEM » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:46 pm

BS4125 wrote:
ChandlerofGEM wrote:
BS4125 wrote:
ChandlerofGEM wrote:I actually think this shouldn't be its own role, but rather an addition to the Forger. Instead of just rewriting a person's will, they should also gain the benefit of learning the person's original will, giving them some info off of TI's, Mediums, and Jailors that the Town can no longer know.

This role doesn't read wills, it prevents multiple wills from being displayed to the town. Anyway all Forger needs is more time to edit a will during the day, reading wills as a buff makes it a swingy investigative, moreover some people (not me) think Forger should be removed because typing styles can indicate a Forger

True, but if you're really good as Forger, you'll keep an up-to-date will yourself and switch it into the role you need it to be, substituting dashes and colons as necessary.
I'm just pointing out that most people use the Forger to clear a will, which the Janitor already does, so why not just give this roles main ability (allowing Mafia access to the will, but not Town) to the Forger too?

Just remove Forger and replace it with Clerk really

If people can't or won't use Forger as intended, maybe. I won't deny that a good Forger can frame people better than any other role if it's done well.
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:57 pm

But a good Forger generally needs a good Consig to function properly. If you're targeting a confirmed Townie, chances are they've already posted their will, so you can't do much.
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby Damafaud » Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:00 pm

Maybe just change the moon button function into pressing a button beside your name? You know, like the Veteran?
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby BS4125 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:20 pm

Damafaud wrote:Maybe just change the moon button function into pressing a button beside your name? You know, like the Veteran?

Does it matter... It's the same thing

Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby W8b40t » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:44 pm

This role is pretty good.

Inv results: Your target follows the lives of others. They could be the Lookout, Forger, Clerk or Amnesiac.
It is relatively easy to fake LO wills, so the Clerk might be able to avoid lynch and then kill the TI that accused them. It also fits flavorwise.

Don't make the role visit itself. It's unnecessary, and causes problems when LO watches you.

Also, you probably don't need to have a moon button. Just make it sort of like a Surv vest (Have 1 button next to your name which you can click).
^Reasoning behind this is that no other role has a moon button so it would be difficult to implement into the game and wouldn't fit in too well.

Also, change the ability to: Decide to send files to the Mafia
Just a minor thing to make sure people know it has limited uses
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby BS4125 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:06 pm

W8b40t wrote:This role is pretty good.

Inv results: Your target follows the lives of others. They could be the Lookout, Forger, Clerk or Amnesiac.
It is relatively easy to fake LO wills, so the Clerk might be able to avoid lynch and then kill the TI that accused them. It also fits flavorwise.

Don't make the role visit itself. It's unnecessary, and causes problems when LO watches you.

Also, you probably don't need to have a moon button. Just make it sort of like a Surv vest (Have 1 button next to your name which you can click).
^Reasoning behind this is that no other role has a moon button so it would be difficult to implement into the game and wouldn't fit in too well.

Also, change the ability to: Decide to send files to the Mafia
Just a minor thing to make sure people know it has limited uses

1) I'm not adding ToS Investigator results to my roles because they are unbalanced, if I was to use any I'd use my own
2) Confusion for the Lookout = Better for the Mafia
3) Fine, it's the same thing though

Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby W8b40t » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:00 pm

BS4125 wrote:
W8b40t wrote:This role is pretty good.

Inv results: Your target follows the lives of others. They could be the Lookout, Forger, Clerk or Amnesiac.
It is relatively easy to fake LO wills, so the Clerk might be able to avoid lynch and then kill the TI that accused them. It also fits flavorwise.

Don't make the role visit itself. It's unnecessary, and causes problems when LO watches you.

Also, you probably don't need to have a moon button. Just make it sort of like a Surv vest (Have 1 button next to your name which you can click).
^Reasoning behind this is that no other role has a moon button so it would be difficult to implement into the game and wouldn't fit in too well.

Also, change the ability to: Decide to send files to the Mafia
Just a minor thing to make sure people know it has limited uses

1) I'm not adding ToS Investigator results to my roles because they are unbalanced, if I was to use any I'd use my own
2) Confusion for the Lookout = Better for the Mafia
3) Fine, it's the same thing though


ToS inv results aren't that bad. For the most part, they are balanced.

I don't think you get what I meant about LO. If LO sees you visiting yourself, you have to be 1. Surv, 2. Trans, 3. BG, or 4. Doc. Notice how none of these are easy or beneficial to claim.
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:04 pm

'Balanced'
Survivor/VH/Witch, as soon as you know the NE is a Witch they're probably gonna die.
BG/GF/Arso is hell for BG, especially if you know there's an Arsonist.
Doc/Disg/SK, the Disguiser's ability removes them, so Doc/SK. SK is screwed probably.
Jan/Med/Ret, if you have a Ret it instantly confirms any Meds, so Janitor is going down the drain. If there is no Ret, and someone gets cleaned, they're still probably gonna die.
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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby Guiorgy » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:12 pm

The role is pretty balanced. but as far as I know, every other mafia visits someone to perform their ability, while this one will not move the whole game?





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Re: Clerk (Mafia Support)

Postby W8b40t » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:23 am

Guiorgy wrote:The role is pretty balanced. but as far as I know, every other mafia visits someone to perform their ability, while this one will not move the whole game?


Every Neutral Chaos converts Townies and kills Mafia members. Therefore, all Neutral Chaos should convert Townies and kill Mafia members. You're extrapolating hard there mate, don't force absolutes in places where they aren't necessary.

HereThereEverywhere wrote:'Balanced'
Survivor/VH/Witch, as soon as you know the NE is a Witch they're probably gonna die.
BG/GF/Arso is hell for BG, especially if you know there's an Arsonist.
Doc/Disg/SK, the Disguiser's ability removes them, so Doc/SK. SK is screwed probably.
Jan/Med/Ret, if you have a Ret it instantly confirms any Meds, so Janitor is going down the drain. If there is no Ret, and someone gets cleaned, they're still probably gonna die.


read:

W8b40t wrote:ToS inv results aren't that bad. For the most part, they are balanced.


Also, 1/2 of your points are absolute bullshit. BG/GF/Arso is bad for GF/Arso, not BG. Jan/Med/Ret is possibly one of the best inv results possible for Janitor.
Even assuming all your points are valid (which they are not), that's 4/11 that are bad. Most are still balanced.
If you want to have a saltfest about Inv results, I suggest you post somewhere else.
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