Mercenary

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Mercenary

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sun May 01, 2022 4:05 pm

Role Name:
-Mercenary

Role Alignment:
-Neutral (Benign)

Abilities:
-Guard a player each night, granting them powerful defense against direct attacks
-Use your gun and stun a player, roleblocking them

Attributes:
-If you save your target or no one visits them, they will become your partner and tell you their faction
-You may not protect the same player twice in a row
-You have a makeshitf vest which protects you untill you are attacked or until you get a partner
-After getting a partner you may stun a player twice
-You will suicide if your target loses before the game ends.

Notifications:
-You were attacked but someone protected you!
-Someone occupied your night, you were roleblocked!

Investigative Results:
Sheriff: Seems innocent
Investigator: Bodyguard, Godfather, Arsonist, Crusader, Mercenary
Consigliere: Your target is a trained soldier, they must be a Mercenary!

Goal:
-See your partner win

Victory Conditions:
-You will win if your partner wins

Special Attributes:
-Cannot be roleblocked while stunning
-Autovest (can be removed)

Achievements:
-TBD

Additional Information:
-Note that their partner must win and not live
Faction means: town, mafia, coven, vampire sk, ww, arso, jugg, pb/pest or no faction (surv, amne, ga, jest, exe , witch and pirate)
-Can still protect after getting a partner
-Can only stun after getting a partner
-Can only have 1 partner
-Can protect anyone, not just their partner

Examples of this role
-N1 mercenary guards doctor
-Doctor is attacked that night
-Mercenary's goal is to make doctor win

Example 2
-N3 mercenary guards survivor
-Survivor is attacked
-Mercenary now has to make surv win
-Surv is lynched d6
-Mercenary suicides

Example 3
-N1 mercenary guards and saves sheriff
-Merc has to make sheriff win
-N2 mercenary is witched and saves mafioso
-Mercenary still has to make sheriff win
Last edited by syjfwbaobfwl on Wed Mar 01, 2023 1:42 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Re: Mercenary (work in progress)

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:44 pm

Changed a few things to make the role less complicated, further changes will most likely be made
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Re: Mercenary (work in progress)

Postby Soulshade55r » Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:18 pm

seems pretty interesting, might be a bit weak once they gain a target? (I'm guessing they can't guard anymore once they have a target?)
Honestly a better take on the Guardian Angel
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Re: Mercenary (work in progress)

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sat Jun 04, 2022 6:52 pm

Soulshade55r wrote:seems pretty interesting, might be a bit weak once they gain a target? (I'm guessing they can't guard anymore once they have a target?)
Honestly a better take on the Guardian Angel


Nono it can still guard, but I am still debating if I make it limited (and how many times) or I leave it like that (unlimited, but thats kinda op)
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Re: Mercenary (work in progress)

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:53 pm

Made it so it cant guard the same player twice in a row after being hired, this is to encourage mercenary to think more and work with their partner's entire faction
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Re: Mercenary (work in progress)

Postby SkyW » Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:15 pm

You either choose early, in which case more often than not you end up being a townie but... worse. You're just a meh escort due to limited role blocks as well as the fact that there's no way to confirm what faction you're part of.

Or alternatively, you can end up with mafia! And be a worse version of, say, a consort due to limited role blocks, not being able to confirm what faction you are, and the fact that mafia cannot properly communicate with you even if they do believe you are on their side. I mean seriously, what good mafia player will get a whisper saying "I'm mercenary I'm on your side" and go "alright bro." If that worked, Townies would do it to get Mafia confirms, and then Exe's would do it to get free lynches, and then Jesters, and suddenly no maf worth their salt will ever respond to that whisper.

If you give them a confirmation message to the person they select, you're essentially in the Amnesiac pit of "confirm you're townie by giving it to townie or die"
If you give the mercenary the exact details of the person's role, "alright guys consig just whispered me hang em" or the mafia just thinks you're a bold investigator and shoots you.
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Re: Mercenary (work in progress)

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:14 am

SkyW wrote:You either choose early, in which case more often than not you end up being a townie but... worse. You're just a meh escort due to limited role blocks as well as the fact that there's no way to confirm what faction you're part of.

Or alternatively, you can end up with mafia! And be a worse version of, say, a consort due to limited role blocks, not being able to confirm what faction you are, and the fact that mafia cannot properly communicate with you even if they do believe you are on their side. I mean seriously, what good mafia player will get a whisper saying "I'm mercenary I'm on your side" and go "alright bro." If that worked, Townies would do it to get Mafia confirms, and then Exe's would do it to get free lynches, and then Jesters, and suddenly no maf worth their salt will ever respond to that whisper.

If you give them a confirmation message to the person they select, you're essentially in the Amnesiac pit of "confirm you're townie by giving it to townie or die"
If you give the mercenary the exact details of the person's role, "alright guys consig just whispered me hang em" or the mafia just thinks you're a bold investigator and shoots you.


Its almost like you can protect and confirm yourself that way!

Is almost like you know the faction of your partner which also gives some help!

Is almost like NB shouldnt be able to confirm themselves easily!
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Re: Mercenary (work in progress)

Postby SkyW » Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:36 am

syjfwbaobfwl wrote: Spoiler:
SkyW wrote:You either choose early, in which case more often than not you end up being a townie but... worse. You're just a meh escort due to limited role blocks as well as the fact that there's no way to confirm what faction you're part of.

Or alternatively, you can end up with mafia! And be a worse version of, say, a consort due to limited role blocks, not being able to confirm what faction you are, and the fact that mafia cannot properly communicate with you even if they do believe you are on their side. I mean seriously, what good mafia player will get a whisper saying "I'm mercenary I'm on your side" and go "alright bro." If that worked, Townies would do it to get Mafia confirms, and then Exe's would do it to get free lynches, and then Jesters, and suddenly no maf worth their salt will ever respond to that whisper.

If you give them a confirmation message to the person they select, you're essentially in the Amnesiac pit of "confirm you're townie by giving it to townie or die"
If you give the mercenary the exact details of the person's role, "alright guys consig just whispered me hang em" or the mafia just thinks you're a bold investigator and shoots you.


Its almost like you can protect and confirm yourself that way!

Is almost like you know the faction of your partner which also gives some help!

Is almost like NB shouldnt be able to confirm themselves easily!


To address your three points:

1) Since you say "you can protect and confirm yourself that way," this either means a player is informed that they have a mercenary, or alternatively informed that they were attacked but a mercenary saved their life. In either case, first person to whisper to them "I'm mercenary I saved your life" will become a trusted player to that one individual. If that individual is townie, after they die or become confirmed you'll be granted trusted townie status. If that individual is a mafia member, you're one of the mafia boys now. If it's a neutral killing, that's honestly fucking awesome and probably the most fun you'll have with the role. I'm not saying that you can't join a faction or confirm yourself to the faction, you very much so can. The problem is once you're a part of that faction, now what? If you become a townie you're sorta just an escort. If you become mafia you're sorta just a consort with no mafia chat. If you become NK's buddy you become a very useful tool to them. Only in the case of the NK are you really that beneficial. After you save someone's life, you're just some guy.

2) I don't understand why you thought I didn't know this, but just to clarify. I understand that you know your alignment once you get it. My point is, what about beforehand? When you're an unaligned mercenary, what exactly is your goal during dayphase. You don't really gain or lose much if someone hangs, nor do you gain or lose much if people don't. You have no real incentive to even type early on other than to make a claim and seem townie-ish.

3) NB shouldn't be able to confirm themselves easily. Correct. I don't see why you brought this up. Once again, you either become a mafia person, a townie, or an NK helper. You'll be a confirmed townie sider once the person you got hired by dies or gets confirmed and their will/words can vouch for you. You'll be a confirmed mafia member to the rest of the mafia once you send that whisper into them. Same goes for NK.

I promise you I did not mean to antagonize you or your work. I misunderstood the confirming system, but that changes very little on my thoughts on the role which are largely outlined in my response to your first point. No matter what, you are sort of just an extra member of some faction that helps them out. This is basically the same as amnesiac. However instead of replacing a dead member, you prevent a members death, which is always going to be more useful to the faction you became a part of.
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Re: Mercenary (work in progress)

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:26 am

SkyW wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote: Spoiler:
SkyW wrote:You either choose early, in which case more often than not you end up being a townie but... worse. You're just a meh escort due to limited role blocks as well as the fact that there's no way to confirm what faction you're part of.

Or alternatively, you can end up with mafia! And be a worse version of, say, a consort due to limited role blocks, not being able to confirm what faction you are, and the fact that mafia cannot properly communicate with you even if they do believe you are on their side. I mean seriously, what good mafia player will get a whisper saying "I'm mercenary I'm on your side" and go "alright bro." If that worked, Townies would do it to get Mafia confirms, and then Exe's would do it to get free lynches, and then Jesters, and suddenly no maf worth their salt will ever respond to that whisper.

If you give them a confirmation message to the person they select, you're essentially in the Amnesiac pit of "confirm you're townie by giving it to townie or die"
If you give the mercenary the exact details of the person's role, "alright guys consig just whispered me hang em" or the mafia just thinks you're a bold investigator and shoots you.


Its almost like you can protect and confirm yourself that way!

Is almost like you know the faction of your partner which also gives some help!

Is almost like NB shouldnt be able to confirm themselves easily!


To address your three points:

1) Since you say "you can protect and confirm yourself that way," this either means a player is informed that they have a mercenary, or alternatively informed that they were attacked but a mercenary saved their life. In either case, first person to whisper to them "I'm mercenary I saved your life" will become a trusted player to that one individual. If that individual is townie, after they die or become confirmed you'll be granted trusted townie status. If that individual is a mafia member, you're one of the mafia boys now. If it's a neutral killing, that's honestly fucking awesome and probably the most fun you'll have with the role. I'm not saying that you can't join a faction or confirm yourself to the faction, you very much so can. The problem is once you're a part of that faction, now what? If you become a townie you're sorta just an escort. If you become mafia you're sorta just a consort with no mafia chat. If you become NK's buddy you become a very useful tool to them. Only in the case of the NK are you really that beneficial. After you save someone's life, you're just some guy.
You can still protect after getting a partner, and the limitation of not protecting the same player twice in a row is to encourage mercenary to work with their partner's faction as a whole, rather than just their partner as an individual (GA has that problem)

2) I don't understand why you thought I didn't know this, but just to clarify. I understand that you know your alignment once you get it. My point is, what about beforehand? When you're an unaligned mercenary, what exactly is your goal during dayphase. You don't really gain or lose much if someone hangs, nor do you gain or lose much if people don't. You have no real incentive to even type early on other than to make a claim and seem townie-ish.
Beforehand you have to evaluate who would be your best partner, picking a partner n1 is very likely to backslash, and ofc you want to keep yourself alive because if you die without a partner you lose instantly

3) NB shouldn't be able to confirm themselves easily. Correct. I don't see why you brought this up. Once again, you either become a mafia person, a townie, or an NK helper. You'll be a confirmed townie sider once the person you got hired by dies or gets confirmed and their will/words can vouch for you. You'll be a confirmed mafia member to the rest of the mafia once you send that whisper into them. Same goes for NK.
Yeah that is the point of the role, to be a helper (what GA was suposed to do I think)

I promise you I did not mean to antagonize you or your work. I misunderstood the confirming system, but that changes very little on my thoughts on the role which are largely outlined in my response to your first point. No matter what, you are sort of just an extra member of some faction that helps them out. This is basically the same as amnesiac. However instead of replacing a dead member, you prevent a members death, which is always going to be more useful to the faction you became a part of.

Yeah sorry for being agresive, I misunderstood your words, but the "you are just a faction helper" is literally the point of the role
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Re: Mercenary (work in progress)

Postby SkyW » Mon Jun 06, 2022 4:36 pm

syjfwbaobfwl wrote: Spoiler: Blah blah we all know what should go in the quote blah blah random readers get fucked


Don't click spoiler random reader! It'll fill the entire screen! No! I said no!

But either way, we both agree on the point of the role. You join a faction and help them out, with some way to confirm yourself as part of that faction. However, isn't this essentially the same as Amnesiac? I'd argue it's better even, seeing as you can play as a Doctor/Escort that saves the life of a faction member instead of replacing them post mortem. It avoids the major Amne problem of the game announcing what they joined though, so that's good.

As a replacement for Amnesiac it's good, but the abilities of the role need to be slightly weaker if it can still protect after teaming. After all, in it's current state, it's a stronger more hidden Amnesiac.
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Re: Mercenary (work in progress)

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:31 am

SkyW wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote: Spoiler: Blah blah we all know what should go in the quote blah blah random readers get fucked


Don't click spoiler random reader! It'll fill the entire screen! No! I said no!

But either way, we both agree on the point of the role. You join a faction and help them out, with some way to confirm yourself as part of that faction. However, isn't this essentially the same as Amnesiac? I'd argue it's better even, seeing as you can play as a Doctor/Escort that saves the life of a faction member instead of replacing them post mortem. It avoids the major Amne problem of the game announcing what they joined though, so that's good.

As a replacement for Amnesiac it's good, but the abilities of the role need to be slightly weaker if it can still protect after teaming. After all, in it's current state, it's a stronger more hidden Amnesiac.


Yes I am still thinking what limit do I put to protections; cause not protecting the same player twice in a row doesnt seems enough

How about 2 protections? Or that it only protects from direct attacks

Also this role is much more similar to GA than amne
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Re: Mercenary (work in progress)

Postby Soulshade55r » Mon Jun 13, 2022 1:14 am

I do think their needs to be a neutral evil role stopper to conflict with the roles confirmation, but other then that having a waiting day is pretty balanced, as if your target is something important, you can only protect them once every other night. Even if its similar to GA i think the role is more creative and much better then current GA. (AND I love GA)

Also if people think this role is easily confirmed look at GA, literally so confirmable and yet its in the game. I'd see this as a better more fun take on the Ga, would be great to get more neutral benigns in the game as they're easily my favourite role type... yes even survivor.
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Re: Mercenary

Postby MR60G0LD » Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:20 pm

So this is essentially a bodyguard with escort like traits. I like the faction idea but outside of that I feel like this would be somewhat of a dull role, to me at least it is the text book example of "Jack of all trades, master of none" you can defend, you can roleblock, you can survive, but you can't defend the same player twice, you can only roleblock twice, and you can only survive once.

It is interesting, sure, but there is no clear goal with what to do, which i usually like as it means you get to experiment but in this case, you have it limited, once you use 2 stuns you have nothing but the ability to defend people that is weaker than other protective roles, especially late game where you might be left with only 1 ally.

The idea has potential but for me it would need some changes, what changed exactly? I am unsure sadly.
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