Pirate Overhaul (Neutral Chaos)

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

With this rework, should Pirate be unique?

Yes.
9
56%
No.
7
44%
 
Total votes : 16

Pirate Overhaul (Neutral Chaos)

Postby WaveAqualei » Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:32 am

As we know, the Pirate is luck-based and awfully boring to play as and against. This rework should hopefully make the role more fun.

Pirate - Neutral (Chaos)

Summary: You are a swashbuckler with an obsession for gold.

Attack: Powerful
Defense: None
Priority: 2 Highest (roleblocking), 5 (attacking)
Unique: No

Abilities:
    - You may duel someone at night, roleblocking them and plundering all of their visitors.
Attributes:
    - If you duel a plundered player, you will attack them.
    - If you duel a player three times, you will attack them.
    - You will learn the roles of the players that visit your target.

Investigative Results:
    Sheriff: Your target is suspicious!
    Investigator: Your target could be a Escort, Transporter, Consort, Hypnotist, or Pirate.
    Consigliere: Your target wants to plunder the town. They must be a Pirate.

Goal: Successfully loot from 3 plundered players.

Victory Conditions:
You win if you loot 3 plundered players.

Notifications:
    "You have decided to duel (player)."
    "A (role) visited your target!"
    "You attacked your target after stealing their loot!"

    "Someone occupied your night. You were roleblocked!"
    "Someone tried to roleblock you but you are immune!"
    "You were attacked by a Pirate!"
    "They were plundered by a Pirate."

Mechanics:
    - The Pirate is still roleblock immune. It is no longer control immune.
    - The Transporter will now be able to redirect the Pirate.
    - You will not know who is plundered.
    - Players will not learn if they have been plundered.
    - You may not duel the same person twice in a row.
    - If a Pirate loots the same person repeatedly, it will only count as one loot.
    - Players do not have to die to the Pirate for it to count as a successful loot.
    - The roleblock is now a regular roleblock and not a super roleblock, meaning roleblock immune roles like the Serial Killer will not be stopped from visiting their original targets. Hopefully with this rework, the Pirate bugs are no more.

Achievements:
Arg! - Win 1 game as a Pirate
Plunder - Win 5 games as a Pirate
X Marks the Spot - Win 10 games as a Pirate
Edward Teach - Win 25 games as a Pirate
Barrel Roll - Attack two players in a row
Avast Ye! - See 5 players visit your target in one night
Dutchman's Britches - Attack Pestilence after looting from them
Last edited by WaveAqualei on Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:49 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Pirate Overhaul (Neutral Chaos)

Postby weknowyoulive » Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:29 pm

If this were in Ranked, I would understand, but the Pirate rock-paper-scissors BS to me is the most fun mechanic in the game.
In my town there is problem,
And that problem is transporter
He take your life away
Because he's an idiot
In my town there is problem,
And that problem is the surv.
They douse people's houses
And we never notice it
Throw the surv down the well,
So my town can be free (So my town can be free!)
You must grab him by his vest,
Then we have a big party.
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Re: Pirate Overhaul (Neutral Chaos)

Postby MR60G0LD » Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:07 pm

Gonna be honest, I am not a fan of this, it removes the uniqueness of Pirate and makes it an escort that hopes for more visitors.

It would also potentially be a game ruiner as they can spend 3 nights visiting 1 person, that means that 3 nights they are roleblocked only to get killed in the end, basically ruining the match for that person, and since you have to hope for players to visit, now you have to also hope that no Juggernaut or werewolf comes barging in to end your run.

Pirate might not be the most optimal role but its unique and fun to many, I don't see a reason for them to be reworked, and currently this even as a seperate role would just be a killjoy due to the roleblocks.
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Re: Pirate Overhaul (Neutral Chaos)

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:30 pm

weknowyoulive wrote:If this were in Ranked, I would understand, but the Pirate rock-paper-scissors BS to me is the most fun mechanic in the game.

That says a lot about your views of the game so I hope I don't encounter you in one.
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Re: Pirate Overhaul (Neutral Chaos)

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:34 pm

MR60G0LD wrote:Gonna be honest, I am not a fan of this, it removes the uniqueness of Pirate and makes it an escort that hopes for more visitors.

It would also potentially be a game ruiner as they can spend 3 nights visiting 1 person, that means that 3 nights they are roleblocked only to get killed in the end, basically ruining the match for that person, and since you have to hope for players to visit, now you have to also hope that no Juggernaut or werewolf comes barging in to end your run.

Pirate might not be the most optimal role but its unique and fun to many, I don't see a reason for them to be reworked, and currently this even as a seperate role would just be a killjoy due to the roleblocks.

You can't duel the same person twice in a row, like how original Pirate does. This is to prevent spam roleblocking. All of the points you made Pirate already has to worry about however.
Pirate currently is not very fun to play as or against. It's fun to have on your side but it's very busted. It's unique but the way how you can win or lose based on luck is very stupid and I don't want to promote a role such as that.
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Re: Pirate Overhaul (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Soulshade55r » Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:06 am

Pirate doesn't need changing.

It's a chaos role that shows up in all any, it's fine as it is. You dont get pirates in serious gamemodes for a reason, This doesn't make it more fun so i see no reason to support this suggestion.

I don't also think its bad to advocate for balance changes if thats what you were going for?
but I couldn't really care in all any, you're already signing up for a clusterfuck game mode that isn't meant to have much balancing.
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Re: Pirate Overhaul (Neutral Chaos)

Postby WaveAqualei » Tue Jun 21, 2022 4:28 pm

Soulshade55r wrote:Pirate doesn't need changing.

It's a chaos role that shows up in all any, it's fine as it is. You dont get pirates in serious gamemodes for a reason, This doesn't make it more fun so i see no reason to support this suggestion.

I don't also think its bad to advocate for balance changes if thats what you were going for?
but I couldn't really care in all any, you're already signing up for a clusterfuck game mode that isn't meant to have much balancing.

The main reason I don't like Pirate how it is currently is because of how stupid it is in Lovers Mode and VIP. I didn't have CAA in thought when reworking this role.
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Re: Pirate Overhaul (Neutral Chaos)

Postby Soulshade55r » Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:44 am

WaveAqualei wrote:
Soulshade55r wrote:Pirate doesn't need changing.

It's a chaos role that shows up in all any, it's fine as it is. You dont get pirates in serious gamemodes for a reason, This doesn't make it more fun so i see no reason to support this suggestion.

I don't also think its bad to advocate for balance changes if thats what you were going for?
but I couldn't really care in all any, you're already signing up for a clusterfuck game mode that isn't meant to have much balancing.

The main reason I don't like Pirate how it is currently is because of how stupid it is in Lovers Mode and VIP. I didn't have CAA in thought when reworking this role.

lovers mode and vip aren't even good balanced modes, they need a overhaul epically lovers, you could just remove it from both or rework the modes.
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Re: Pirate Overhaul (Neutral Chaos)

Postby WaveAqualei » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:43 am

Soulshade55r wrote:
WaveAqualei wrote:
Soulshade55r wrote:Pirate doesn't need changing.

It's a chaos role that shows up in all any, it's fine as it is. You dont get pirates in serious gamemodes for a reason, This doesn't make it more fun so i see no reason to support this suggestion.

I don't also think its bad to advocate for balance changes if thats what you were going for?
but I couldn't really care in all any, you're already signing up for a clusterfuck game mode that isn't meant to have much balancing.

The main reason I don't like Pirate how it is currently is because of how stupid it is in Lovers Mode and VIP. I didn't have CAA in thought when reworking this role.

lovers mode and vip aren't even good balanced modes, they need a overhaul epically lovers, you could just remove it from both or rework the modes.

I'd rather remove Pirate but there's nothing else to replace them other than Juggernaut. I still don't like how Pirate is buggy currently.
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Re: Pirate Overhaul (Neutral Chaos)

Postby mygma » Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:57 pm

I don't think this rework would be a good change, it removes the whole "Chaos" aspect of a neutral chaos role. The idea behind this is to make pirate less boring but I don't think this makes him more interesting. Also balancing around Lover's or VIP doesn't make sense imo, considering that the most popular gamemode where you would see pirate is CAA.
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Re: Pirate Overhaul (Neutral Chaos)

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:17 pm

mygma wrote:I don't think this rework would be a good change, it removes the whole "Chaos" aspect of a neutral chaos role. The idea behind this is to make pirate less boring but I don't think this makes him more interesting. Also balancing around Lover's or VIP doesn't make sense imo, considering that the most popular gamemode where you would see pirate is CAA.

Actually this overhaul was to remove Pirate's luck, along with fixing their current bugs with other roles. Pirate is the one role that does not make sense in Town of Salem's nature whatsoever. It gives Consort and Hypnotist a new claim. Currently people are willing to throw for their team in order to give Pirate a win, so I tried to reduce that. I probably made the goal too harsh but I can lower that if needed.
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Re: Pirate Overhaul (Neutral Chaos)

Postby scarfves » Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:36 pm

I like this rework as it's own identity, but it doesn't actually capture any spirit of the original Pirate, this feels like a NC version of the Werewolf. Despite the Pirate having a bad identity at the moment for being mostly RNG-based, I feel a rework should atleast have some of the semblance it has, which is being a threat to all factions, having good killing power, and requiring you to - and I put this very damn loosely for the pirate - """outplay""" your opponent.

I did a similar Pirate re-imagining role idea as it's own role called the 'Gunslinger' a years ago where I took the prior mentioned elements and made it a NK role that could also rival the Jailor meta.

I'm not a fan of the pseudo-rampage and half-roleblock it has if it tries to be a Pirate rework, but on it's own as a role with a different design, it works alright.
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Re: Pirate Overhaul (Neutral Chaos)

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:15 pm

scarfves wrote:I like this rework as it's own identity, but it doesn't actually capture any spirit of the original Pirate, this feels like a NC version of the Werewolf. Despite the Pirate having a bad identity at the moment for being mostly RNG-based, I feel a rework should atleast have some of the semblance it has, which is being a threat to all factions, having good killing power, and requiring you to - and I put this very damn loosely for the pirate - """outplay""" your opponent.

I did a similar Pirate re-imagining role idea as it's own role called the 'Gunslinger' a years ago where I took the prior mentioned elements and made it a NK role that could also rival the Jailor meta.

I'm not a fan of the pseudo-rampage and half-roleblock it has if it tries to be a Pirate rework, but on it's own as a role with a different design, it works alright.

It doesn't rampage, it learns the roles of the players that visit its target (like Trapper), roleblocks its target (like Escort/Consort), and can deal a Powerful Attack to them if they've been dueled 3 times or were plundered a previous night. It doesn't attack any visitors, by the way.
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