Simple Role Changes

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Simple Role Changes

Postby MarsGodofWar » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:34 am

Transporter: (1) Can now be roleblocked
Absolutely no reason why they should be roleblocked immune. Role blocking should have priority over their transporting. So if they try to transport themselves with someone else they will be roleblocked. Come on, you think a Taxi Driver or Chauffeur is to disciplined to sleep with Hookers? Bonkers, whoever idea it was to make a Transporter immune to roleblocking is an idiot

(2) Transporting a Vet
The way that transport works with Veteran right now doesn't make any sense. A veteran is meant to shoot anyone who visits them. It makes no sense for the Veteran to be transported whilst on alert and for people visiting the player Vet is transported with to be killed instead.
Instead, if a Transporter chooses to transport a Veteran first. The Transporter will be killed by the Veteran and the 2nd person won't be transported. If the transporter transports someone else first and then chooses to transport the Veteran, the transporter, the player transported first and the players originally visiting the Veteran will be killed instead.

Lookout: Sees all targets
RNG shouldn't exist in this game and needs to be fixed. Lookout isn't overpowered, the Jailor meta just sucks. Fix the Jailor meta, you fix Lookout. I got lynched the other game as Bodyguard because a Framer, Spy & some other fucker appeared on the Lookout will but I didn't. So basically, I was lynched because of RNG.

Veteran: No longer unique
No reason for a Veteran to be unique, it isn't a super important town power role like Mayor or Jailor and removing it from being Unique would open up claim space for evils. Having 4 Veterans would be insane, but 4 Vigilantes and 4 Escorts is also very insane and unbalanced. I'd like to see 2 Maximum Veterans possible.

Vigilante: No longer suicides if they shoot a town member.
Unrealistic and very swingy in ranked. Vigilante should in no way suicide after they shoot a town member. PERIOD. Honestly, they should still be able to shoot afterwards as well. They're a Vigilante afterwards and sometimes Vigilantes kill Innocents. I know this was implemented to stop trolls and game throws, but that is what the report system is for.

Trapper: Add to the standard game please and make this role less slow.
In its current state, this role would be a disaster if added to Mafia ranked. Possibilities: 2 Traps out at a time and/or able to set traps every night without having to wait to build one.

Consort: Can detect roleblock immune targets
Mafia counterparts to town roles are meant to be more powerful and have that edge. Power in numbers after all. Consigliere detects the exact role whilst Investigator gets a possibility of roles. I suggest that a Consort is notified if they roleblock someone who is immune.

Retributionist: Allow to use all roles with active night time abilities.
Currently, Retributionist is either useless or useful depending on which roles spawn. A very terrible rework and an unbalanced an swingy role. Retributionist should now be able to use transporter and veteran. The Veteran would work as a defence role for whoever the Retributionist sends the Vet to.

Mayor: Can be whispered to once revealed
It's annoying and unrealistic that a Mayor cannot be whispered to. A Mayor should be able to get the help from tp/investigators once they have revealed like a Jailor can. There should still always be a risk to the Mayor revealing early, but once they've revealed... I see no reason people shouldn't be able to whisper and claim to them.

Witch: All non-visiting targets can be made to visit.
Completely unrealistic that a powerful Witch cannot make a Medium or a Mayor etc visit anyone. This is a simple buff for the Witch, but would make the game more realistic and balanced. Witch should be able to control anyone and make them visit. They can control Jailor, Medium, Mayor etc. These roles will appear to visit on Lookout and Tracker wills and will also be able to visit a Veteran.

Godfather: Roleblock immune
Do you really think Don Corleone would abandon his responsibilities and be swayed by a hooker? No. The Godfather is the leader of the Mafia for a reason. Giving the Godfather roleblock immunity would else reduce the chance of an Escort deadlock.

Blackmailer: Players can now talk during their last words once they've been voted guilty.
You've been blackmailed, but are you not gonna say anything after you've been sentenced to death?

Jailor: Targets can be targetted (besides from protection roles)
Once Jailed targets have left their Jailed cells, there's no reason why players should not be able to target them. What I suggest is that investigative roles can now invest targets that are jailed and jailed targets can be killed once they left Jail. If the Jailor executes, the target will still not be able to be protected in anyway.

Plaguebearer: No longer reveals to town when it becomes Pestilence.
I love this role and believe it is near perfect in design. But how often does it win? 5%? Somewhat understandable, Neutral Killing roles require more skill and should never have a super high win rate like Town or Mafia. But, I believe the Plaguebearer needs that extra day and it should not be instantly revealed to the town that Pestilence has come. Often when this is announced, Pestilence doesn't have any time to do anything and the town gets desperate to lynch Pestilence. Most of the time, by the time you've become Pestilence, you're doom. "5 claimed Survivor, he's Pestilence" and then you instantly get lynched. The town shouldn't find out about Pestilence until Pestilence has killed. This would also stop people from saying "DON'T VISIT ANYMORE WE NEED TO CATCH PESTILENCE" Giving Pestilence an extra day would make this role way more balanced and winnable.

Hex Master: Can Hex an additional player with the Necronomicon, but the 2nd hex isn't lethal
How often do you see a Hex Master perform their unstoppable attack? Never. Exactly, so this role needs a buff. I suggest that on nights the Hex Master has the Necronomicon that they are able to Hex a 2nd player, but this player will not be attacked. Would this make Sheriff & Investigators useless? Idk, prehaps stop the Hex Master from framing their target. I think this one is very much up to debate.
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:16 am

All these changes except of bmer, vigi and maybe jailor one make no sense at all or are completely unbalanced

Anyway nothing that you say can be taken seriously, knowing that you are just an alt used to boost your ideas
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby MarsGodofWar » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:58 am

Firstly, you're being rude for no reason. You seem to not like me. But I am here to contribute and I make perfectly reasonable suggestions. You may not like them all and I do learn a few things based on peoples feedback but some people on this site are just stuck in their ways and don't want to see the game change in any way. I want to see this game grow, expand and get better, I want a larger community, a more competitive scene and this game updated to its full potential.

Secondly. I'm allowed 2 accounts. I created a new account to improve my Elo in ranked. I have never used this 2nd account to boost my own ideas. I only ever comment on my posts if someone else has commented. Boosting my own ideas would mean that I'm going on another account and commenting positive things on my own posts, which I have never ever done.

Thirdly, nothing which I've suggested here is unbalanced. You should really explain yourself when you make a comment, rather than just making unnecessary and rude comments. I've made perfectly good suggestions which I want to be taking seriously. You haven't made a single explanation on why what I've suggested makes no sense at all or is unbalanced. But anyway, I will explain Perhaps think outside the box a bit and have a more open-minded approach to what I'm suggesting. You seem to have a habit of commenting negative things on peoples posts without actually giving a proper reason.

Transporter: Veteran is meant to kill all players visiting them while on alert right? But somehow the Transporter is able to move the Veteran to another players house and then all players targeting that player are killed instead. This makes absolutely no sense and what I've suggested is way more realistic. Transporter visits an alerting Veteran, they should be killed instantly without players actions getting directed to the Veteran if they are targetting the 2nd person whos transported. Tell me, what about this makes no sense?

Why should a Transporter be roleblock immune? They are a chauffeur or a taxi driver, whichever way you want to look at it. They are not saints and it makes absolutely no sense that they have role block immunity from Hookers.

Lookout: What I've suggested prevents RNG. Fix the Jailor meta and you fix Lookout. I'm making perfectly good sense here, but you think this is unbalanced? Rng is more unbalanced. As I said, I was lynched as Bodyguard because I didn't appear on a Lookout will. So I was lynched for RNG, nothing else. If I was on the Lookout will, I wouldn't have been lynched.

Veteran: Up for debate I guess, but I still don't believe it should be a Unique role like Jailor or Mayor. Making Veteran occur a maximum of twice would open up claim space for evils. Veteran is on par in terms of power as Vigilante and Vigilante can occur 4 times.

Consort: Ok, how is this suggestion overpowered? It is a very very minor buff.

Trapper: Role is slow and unpowered. If it was added to the standard game people would see this as more of a problem, but seeing as it only occurs in Coven it isn't an issue at the moment. But I would really much love to see it in the base game.

Mayor: Jailor is almost as easy to confirm as Mayor in ranked and Jailor can still be whispered to. I guess this one is up to debate. But there really isn't anything unreasonable about allowing Mayor to whisper/be whispered to.

Witch: Ok, so a Witch is able to bewitch someone and have control over them. The target has absolutely no control over themselves. A witch is able to target a player and make them visit someone else's home. But for some unrealistic reason a Mayor, Medium, Jailor etc have some sort of immunity to this. Witch should be able to make non visiting roles visit, no expectation! Jailor will still execute if they are witched onto their Jailed target, but they will still visit someone else's house if witched onto that player. This is a slight buff to the Witch but is far from overpowered or game-changing. There's nothing in Mayors attributes that says "You cannot be controlled" A Witch can control people, it's in the role description. A Witch gains complete control over that target and makes that target visit someone else. There's no logical reason why the Mayor should just stay at home when he's Witched. I like to think about realism when making role suggestions and that is exactly what I'm doing here. So please tell me how this doesn't make any sense to you?

Godfather: You've obviously never seen The Godfather. I do suggest you watch it. Don Corleone was quite a humble man and there's absolutely no way that he would abandon all his responsibilities to go and sleep with a Hooker. The Godfather is the leader of the Mafia for a reason and should be immune to role blocks. This is actually completely balanced and would reduce the possibility of a deadlock with Escorts. Please tell me what about this is unbalanced.

Plaguebearer: It is a slight buff. Gives the Plaguebearer an extra day is all I'm suggesting. I don't believe it needs to be revealed to the town when Plaguebearer becomes Pestilence. The town will find this out after they've seen that someones been obliterated by the horseman of the apocalypse. This role has the lowest win rate in the game. I don't think this suggestion is entirely unreasonable.

Hex Master: Up for debate I guess

Lastly, next time you decide to criticise please actually make a valid argument, rather than just straight-up being rude and not contributing to anything. Seeing as you've made these suggestions I can't take you seriously at all. At least most of my suggestions are thought out. I do admit I've made a few bad suggestions, but I've got plenty of reasonable ones. Looking at your posts though, pretty much all of your role suggestions/rework ideas are nothing but filler. (viewtopic.php?f=27&t=115692) (viewtopic.php?f=27&t=114913) (viewtopic.php?f=27&t=114430) (viewtopic.php?f=27&t=114356)
Last edited by MarsGodofWar on Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:58 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby dolphina » Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:19 am

ok i hate to burst your bubble bud but the lookout was originally like the change you suggested, people said it was too overpowered so the devs nerfed it for the sake of boosting evils

also why are you comparing this ToS godfather with don corleone from the godfather just what

and why are you making it realistic? the point is that if the transporter isn’t roleblock immune there could be this weird thing that happens called
“people get really fucking mad about it and the devs revert the change”
most of these would probably receive extreme community backlash
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby MarsGodofWar » Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:37 am

dolphina wrote:ok i hate to burst your bubble bud but the lookout was originally like the change you suggested, people said it was too overpowered so the devs nerfed it for the sake of boosting evils

Clearly, it is not working and most of the community hate RNG. If a nerf doesn't work, it needs to be reverted. I'm a gamer and see nerfs getting reversed all the time in other games. Nerfs/Buffs are meant to be about trial and error, but Blankmediagames has a habit of implementing a change and not reverting it if it doesn't work out. Besides, there's plenty of other ways to boost evil and fix the balance of this game. I could suggest various ways to do this, but its late and I can't be fucked at the moment.

dolphina wrote:also why are you comparing this ToS godfather with don corleone from the godfather just what


Don Corleone is one of the best examples of a Mafia Godfather and It makes sense to compare Godfather to him. My point still stands anyway, Godfather is the leader of the Mafia for a reason and needs roleblock immunity.

dolphina wrote:and why are you making it realistic? the point is that if the transporter isn’t roleblock immune there could be this weird thing that happens called
“people get really fucking mad about it and the devs revert the change”
most of these would probably receive extreme community backlash


Having a realism factor makes a better game. Obviously, you still have to find that balance between realism and fun. But if things can be fun and realistic then you have a perfect match.

“people get really fucking mad about it and the devs revert the change” Bit of an overreaction. No one likes being roleblocked, but I much highly doubt that people are gonna be more pisssed off that they got roleblocked when they were transporter over them getting roleblocked when they were Vigilante.

Also, your only criticism towards my Transporter is that "something weird would happen", which has nothing to do with the aspect of the role at all.

"extreme community backlash" This game doesn't have much of a community and I only ever see the same 20 people comment on these forums. Even when they implement changes that people don't like you never see any major community backlash. And besides, there's never gonna be any community backlash over a small change like this. Still, if a Vigilante or a Sheriff can be roleblocked then so should a Cheuffer (transporter). It makes no sense both realisticly and gamewise that Transporter cannot be roleblocked. Shouldn't have even been implemented as an attribute.
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby dolphina » Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:56 am

this game isn’t supposed to be realistic
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby MarsGodofWar » Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:07 am

dolphina wrote:this game isn’t supposed to be realistic


Didn't say it had to be entirely realistic, but there's nothing wrong with a bit of realism, especially if it makes sense gamewise.

Bit annoying how you have to find the smallest thing to critique on and can't give me any credit. I write one line about adding a bit of realism to the game. But wrote a few paragraphs explaining commenting on why I believe Transporter, Lookout, Godfather should be changed, but instead you had to decipher 1 little comment I made that you didn't agree with.

Please stop the filler and have a valid argument, feedback or suggestions the next time you comment.
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:03 am

MarsGodofWar wrote:Transporter: (1) Can now be roleblocked
Absolutely no reason why they should be roleblocked immune. Role blocking should have priority over their transporting. So if they try to transport themselves with someone else they will be roleblocked. Come on, you think a Taxi Driver or Chauffeur is to disciplined to sleep with Hookers? Bonkers, whoever idea it was to make a Transporter immune to roleblocking is an idiot
because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed


(2) Transporting a Vet
The way that transport works with Veteran right now doesn't make any sense. A veteran is meant to shoot anyone who visits them. It makes no sense for the Veteran to be transported whilst on alert and for people visiting the player Vet is transported with to be killed instead.
Instead, if a Transporter chooses to transport a Veteran first. The Transporter will be killed by the Veteran and the 2nd person won't be transported. If the transporter transports someone else first and then chooses to transport the Veteran, the transporter, the player transported first and the players originally visiting the Veteran will be killed instead.

Veteran doesnt stops actions, so no, an arso will still douse a vet, so a second arso will be able to ignite them

Lookout: Sees all targets
RNG shouldn't exist in this game and needs to be fixed. Lookout isn't overpowered, the Jailor meta just sucks. Fix the Jailor meta, you fix Lookout. I got lynched the other game as Bodyguard because a Framer, Spy & some other fucker appeared on the Lookout will but I didn't. So basically, I was lynched because of RNG.

Situations werw RNG is involved with this role are very little, and even with 3 visits its still overpowered

Veteran: No longer unique
No reason for a Veteran to be unique, it isn't a super important town power role like Mayor or Jailor and removing it from being Unique would open up claim space for evils. Having 4 Veterans would be insane, but 4 Vigilantes and 4 Escorts is also very insane and unbalanced. I'd like to see 2 Maximum Veterans possible.
I didnt see this change at first; and yeah this one is good


Vigilante: No longer suicides if they shoot a town member.
Unrealistic and very swingy in ranked. Vigilante should in no way suicide after they shoot a town member. PERIOD. Honestly, they should still be able to shoot afterwards as well. They're a Vigilante afterwards and sometimes Vigilantes kill Innocents. I know this was implemented to stop trolls and game throws, but that is what the report system is for.

Yeah, like everyone seems to agree with, 2 bullets, no suicide

Trapper: Add to the standard game please and make this role less slow.
In its current state, this role would be a disaster if added to Mafia ranked. Possibilities: 2 Traps out at a time and/or able to set traps every night without having to wait to build one.

yeah, trapper needs a buff, but not one like that, because it would be OP, Orecreeper and me have suggested a few reworks before

Consort: Can detect roleblock immune targets
Mafia counterparts to town roles are meant to be more powerful and have that edge. Power in numbers after all. Consigliere detects the exact role whilst Investigator gets a possibility of roles. I suggest that a Consort is notified if they roleblock someone who is immune.

Consort is stronger than escort solely for the fact that its part of an informed minority, so it cannot roleblock a teammate in normal situations, consort is already the strongest RM (along with forger) so it doesnt needs buffs

Retributionist: Allow to use all roles with active night time abilities.
Currently, Retributionist is either useless or useful depending on which roles spawn. A very terrible rework and an unbalanced an swingy role. Retributionist should now be able to use transporter and veteran. The Veteran would work as a defence role for whoever the Retributionist sends the Vet to.

Reason of this is that retri has priority lower than trans, and also that trans is a 2 target role, so having a 3 targeting system would be wierd, also vet is not a visiting role, so dont send it to other houses

Mayor: Can be whispered to once revealed
It's annoying and unrealistic that a Mayor cannot be whispered to. A Mayor should be able to get the help from tp/investigators once they have revealed like a Jailor can. There should still always be a risk to the Mayor revealing early, but once they've revealed... I see no reason people shouldn't be able to whisper and claim to them.

Mayor is the second/third strongest townie, no buffs needed, specially if its the point of mayor; revealing should have its downsides

Witch: All non-visiting targets can be made to visit.
Completely unrealistic that a powerful Witch cannot make a Medium or a Mayor etc visit anyone. This is a simple buff for the Witch, but would make the game more realistic and balanced. Witch should be able to control anyone and make them visit. They can control Jailor, Medium, Mayor etc. These roles will appear to visit on Lookout and Tracker wills and will also be able to visit a Veteran.

this is already a thing, more or less, an Lo can see certain non visitung roles visiting if they get witched, but those roles wont be shot by vet or rampages, its a super wierd interaction which I think got changed, but im not sure

Godfather: Roleblock immune
Do you really think Don Corleone would abandon his responsibilities and be swayed by a hooker? No. The Godfather is the leader of the Mafia for a reason. Giving the Godfather roleblock immunity would else reduce the chance of an Escort deadlock.

The solution for this is tactical mafia kills

Blackmailer: Players can now talk during their last words once they've been voted guilty.
You've been blackmailed, but are you not gonna say anything after you've been sentenced to death?

Yeah, its a good start

Jailor: Targets can be targetted (besides from protection roles)
Once Jailed targets have left their Jailed cells, there's no reason why players should not be able to target them. What I suggest is that investigative roles can now invest targets that are jailed and jailed targets can be killed once they left Jail. If the Jailor executes, the target will still not be able to be protected in anyway.

Could be

Plaguebearer: No longer reveals to town when it becomes Pestilence.
I love this role and believe it is near perfect in design. But how often does it win? 5%? Somewhat understandable, Neutral Killing roles require more skill and should never have a super high win rate like Town or Mafia. But, I believe the Plaguebearer needs that extra day and it should not be instantly revealed to the town that Pestilence has come. Often when this is announced, Pestilence doesn't have any time to do anything and the town gets desperate to lynch Pestilence. Most of the time, by the time you've become Pestilence, you're doom. "5 claimed Survivor, he's Pestilence" and then you instantly get lynched. The town shouldn't find out about Pestilence until Pestilence has killed. This would also stop people from saying "DON'T VISIT ANYMORE WE NEED TO CATCH PESTILENCE" Giving Pestilence an extra day would make this role way more balanced and winnable.

No

Hex Master: Can Hex an additional player with the Necronomicon, but the 2nd hex isn't lethal
How often do you see a Hex Master perform their unstoppable attack? Never. Exactly, so this role needs a buff. I suggest that on nights the Hex Master has the Necronomicon that they are able to Hex a 2nd player, but this player will not be attacked. Would this make Sheriff & Investigators useless? Idk, prehaps stop the Hex Master from framing their target. I think this one is very much up to debate.


Coven faction is severly overpowered, it needs nerfs and not buffs
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:06 am

Secondly. I'm allowed 2 accounts. I created a new account to improve my Elo in ranked. I have never used this 2nd account to boost my own ideas. I only ever comment on my posts if someone else has commented. Boosting my own ideas would mean that I'm going on another account and commenting positive things on my own posts, which I have never ever done.


oh really? Then how would you explain that?
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby dolphina » Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:29 pm

guys i just think this guy won’t listen to us so

let’s head out
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby Brilliand » Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:09 pm

MarsGodofWar wrote:How often do you see a Hex Master perform their unstoppable attack? Never.


I actually did. I've only ever been Hex Master once, and on that one occasion, I performed the unstoppable attack. Killed my own Guardian Angel in the process. Very memorable.
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby MarsGodofWar » Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:16 am

because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed


Simple solutation, make role blocking a higher priority. If you get roleblocked the transport never happens.


Veteran doesn't stops actions, so no, an arso will still douse a vet, so a second arso will be able to ignite them

I don't think you entirely understand the point I was trying to make. All I'm suggesting is a very logical change. An alerted Veteran kills anyone who visits them, so how does it make any sense for a Transporter to be able to move a Veteran? It makes absolutely no logical sense. If a transporter targets a Veteran, the transporter should instantly be killed and fail to transport the Veteran.

Situations werw RNG is involved with this role are very little, and even with 3 visits its still overpowered

RNG occurs most games with this role in ranked. The role was never overpowered in any other game mode besides from ranked, but nerfing a role and making it RNG isn't the way to go. Lookout needs to be reverted back. Do you really think its fair that I should get lynched simply because I didn't appear on a LOS will? RNG like this should never exist. The role was never overpowered, it's just that this role heavily supports the Jailor meta. As soon as you fix the Jailor meta, the Lookout won't be as powerful. But a nerf was never the way to go


Reason of this is that retri has priority lower than trans, and also that trans is a 2 target role, so having a 3 targeting system would be wierd, also vet is not a visiting role, so dont send it to other houses

Well, the role needs a rework either way. Having a role that is completely useless in some games and very useful during other games is very unbalanced. A 3 targeting system wouldn't be weird. I'm sure people playing this game are smart enough to work out how to push 3 buttons. I don't see why you always seem to think people will get confused over things that aren't that complicated at all. A Retributionist is meant to raise town corpses, so why shouldn't they be able to raise a Veteran from the dead and make him camp outside someone's house. A Veteran is still a human after all, just like a Sheriff.


this is already a thing, more or less, an Lo can see certain non visitung roles visiting if they get witched, but those roles wont be shot by vet or rampages, its a super wierd interaction which I think got changed, but im not sure

Lookouts can see Mediums & Jailors visiting, but cannot see Mayor, Veteran or a Vigi (without bullets) visiting. Why? So a Lookout can check an alerting Veteran and if a Witch has sent a Medium onto the Vet, the Lookout will see the Medium, but the Medium won't die???? Why can't a Mayor be Witched? Why should a Mayor have some sort of random Magical resistance to a Witch? A Witch is able to control the mind of their victims and make them do stuff that they have no control over. It makes absolutely no sense that a Witch cannot make non-visitng roles visit and that they will survive to a Veteran. All I'm suggesting is a logical change which makes more sense

The solution for this is tactical mafia kills

Both TMK and roleblock immunity for Godfather.



MarsGodofWar wrote:Plaguebearer: No longer reveals to town when it becomes Pestilence.
I love this role and believe it is near perfect in design. But how often does it win? 5%? Somewhat understandable, Neutral Killing roles require more skill and should never have a super high win rate like Town or Mafia. But, I believe the Plaguebearer needs that extra day and it should not be instantly revealed to the town that Pestilence has come. Often when this is announced, Pestilence doesn't have any time to do anything and the town gets desperate to lynch Pestilence. Most of the time, by the time you've become Pestilence, you're doom. "5 claimed Survivor, he's Pestilence" and then you instantly get lynched. The town shouldn't find out about Pestilence until Pestilence has killed. This would also stop people from saying "DON'T VISIT ANYMORE WE NEED TO CATCH PESTILENCE" Giving Pestilence an extra day would make this role way more balanced and winnable.

Swyshfjdsayfs wrote:No


Why on earth not? Why should the town be instantly informed that the Plaguebearer has become Pestilence. They'll find out when they see that Pestilence has killed. This role has the lowest win rate in the game and its not a power buff, its a stealth buff.

Coven faction is severely overpowered, it needs nerfs and not buffs

Please enlighten me. I've never noticed that Coven is overpowered anyway. Last thing these roles need are nerfs, that's when the game gets boring. Coven seems perfectly balanced in All Any, Town Traitor & VIP mode. Coven only has slightly more kill power than Mafia, but less deception. I don't have much experience with Coven seeing as its impossible to find a Ranked game

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Secondly. I'm allowed 2 accounts. I created a new account to improve my Elo in ranked. I have never used this 2nd account to boost my own ideas. I only ever comment on my posts if someone else has commented. Boosting my own ideas would mean that I'm going on another account and commenting positive things on my own posts, which I have never ever done.


oh really? Then how would you explain that?


I wasn't intentionally boosting my ideas. I was just replying and happened to be on this account at the time and didn't feel the need to log out.
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby MarsGodofWar » Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:18 am

dolphina wrote:guys i just think this guy won’t listen to us so

let’s head out


Why should I listen to you? You aren't superior to me in any way. You have contributed absolutely nothing to this discussion in any way. You seem to believe that your opinion is always right and that no one else's ideas matter. From what I can tell you've got over 900 posts in a year and most of them are filler. You've contributed absolutely nothing of value to the community. Imagine being so up yourself that you make a post on a gaming forum advertising your own birthday. It's a bit shameful to be on here on your birthday, obviously, you don't have much of a life.

I've made plenty of logical suggestions here and after the initial backlash, I elaborated. I start making perfect sense, but obviously, you don't like being proven wrong. You're nothing but arrogant.

Besides, didn't I ask you not to comment unless you've got a valid suggestion or feedback? Instead for some reason, you feel the need to comment and be rude? Your opinion is not the only one that matters So stop thinking that because you don't agree with me, that you are right.
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby cob709 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:37 am

MarsGodofWar wrote:
because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed


Simple solutation, make role blocking a higher priority. If you get roleblocked the transport never happens.

What if they're transported into the roleblock?
In that case, they get roleblocked so the transport never happens. But if the transport never happens, they never get roleblocked, which means the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen.
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby MarsGodofWar » Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:31 pm

cob709 wrote:
MarsGodofWar wrote:
because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed


Simple solutation, make role blocking a higher priority. If you get roleblocked the transport never happens.

What if they're transported into the roleblock?
In that case, they get roleblocked so the transport never happens. But if the transport never happens, they never get roleblocked, which means the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen.


You all keep makings things sound like they are complicated when there not. There's no paradoxes between Hookers and Cheuffers, this isn't bloody time travelling. If you were role blocked directly then the transport wouldn't occur. If you were transported into a roleblock, then it would happen. Its honestly quite simple to understand, but you all keep making it out like people are dumb. Transporters being role block immune was implemented because BMG was to lazy to install the mechanics for them to be role blocked.

Anyway, like I've asked dolphina. Please refrain yourself from posting filler. Absolutely no reason to repeat yourself like that
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby cob709 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:18 pm

MarsGodofWar wrote:
cob709 wrote:
MarsGodofWar wrote:
because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed


Simple solutation, make role blocking a higher priority. If you get roleblocked the transport never happens.

What if they're transported into the roleblock?
In that case, they get roleblocked so the transport never happens. But if the transport never happens, they never get roleblocked, which means the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen.


You all keep makings things sound like they are complicated when there not. There's no paradoxes between Hookers and Cheuffers, this isn't bloody time travelling. If you were role blocked directly then the transport wouldn't occur. If you were transported into a roleblock, then it would happen. Its honestly quite simple to understand, but you all keep making it out like people are dumb. Transporters being role block immune was implemented because BMG was to lazy to install the mechanics for them to be role blocked.

Anyway, like I've asked dolphina. Please refrain yourself from posting filler. Absolutely no reason to repeat yourself like that

But if they transport themselves into the roleblock, then they would not transport themselves into the roleblock because they were roleblocked. But this contradicts itself, because if they didn't transport themselves into the roleblock, then they would transport themselves into the roleblock because they weren't roleblocked. What would happen? Who gets roleblocked?
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:32 pm

MarsGodofWar wrote:
cob709 wrote:
MarsGodofWar wrote:
because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed


Simple solutation, make role blocking a higher priority. If you get roleblocked the transport never happens.

What if they're transported into the roleblock?
In that case, they get roleblocked so the transport never happens. But if the transport never happens, they never get roleblocked, which means the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen.


You all keep makings things sound like they are complicated when there not. There's no paradoxes between Hookers and Cheuffers, this isn't bloody time travelling. If you were role blocked directly then the transport wouldn't occur. If you were transported into a roleblock, then it would happen. Its honestly quite simple to understand, but you all keep making it out like people are dumb. Transporters being role block immune was implemented because BMG was to lazy to install the mechanics for them to be role blocked.

Anyway, like I've asked dolphina. Please refrain yourself from posting filler. Absolutely no reason to repeat yourself like that


No, transporter is rb inmune because the devs decided to put higher priority than esc and cons, is not hard to understand, but you are making it look like a bad decition which is game breaking and blah blah blah

Transpirter is fine being rb inmune, transporter is fine with its interaction with vet

Also almost all your changes are because of lore things, when balance>lore
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby MarsGodofWar » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:38 pm

No, transporter is rb inmune because the devs decided to put higher priority than esc and cons, is not hard to understand, but you are making it look like a bad decition which is game breaking and blah blah blah

Transpirter is fine being rb inmune, transporter is fine with its interaction with vet

Also almost all your changes are because of lore things, when balance>lore


Transporter is immune to role blocking because of lazy mechanics. I don't get why you can't understand logic. And nothing I've suggested about it is game-breaking, you just seem to get confused easy. All I'm suggesting is logical changes.
There's no reason why Transporter should be role block immune. The game needs to update its mechanics so it can deal with Escorts/Witches/Transporters in this way.

If you think the interaction with Veteran is fine then you are delusional. A alerted Veteran is meant to kill players that visit them, so how is a Transporter able to transport an alerted Veteran. It makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Currently the interaction works like this, Alerted Veteran gets Transed with Sheriff, all players visiting Sheriff die instead. IT MAKES NO SENSE!!! Why is that so hard for you to understand? You keep arguing against it, when all I'm doing is suggesting logical changes. Stop always thinking you're right syjwbaobfwl, because in this situation you are not.

All of my changes are balanced as well. If you can find the perfect mix between balance and lore then you have a good role. But when the mechanics or the logic of the role doesn't make any sense then its unbalanced.
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby MarsGodofWar » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:43 pm

cob709 wrote:
MarsGodofWar wrote:
cob709 wrote:
MarsGodofWar wrote:
because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed


Simple solutation, make role blocking a higher priority. If you get roleblocked the transport never happens.

What if they're transported into the roleblock?
In that case, they get roleblocked so the transport never happens. But if the transport never happens, they never get roleblocked, which means the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen.


You all keep makings things sound like they are complicated when there not. There's no paradoxes between Hookers and Cheuffers, this isn't bloody time travelling. If you were role blocked directly then the transport wouldn't occur. If you were transported into a roleblock, then it would happen. Its honestly quite simple to understand, but you all keep making it out like people are dumb. Transporters being role block immune was implemented because BMG was to lazy to install the mechanics for them to be role blocked.

Anyway, like I've asked dolphina. Please refrain yourself from posting filler. Absolutely no reason to repeat yourself like that

But if they transport themselves into the roleblock, then they would not transport themselves into the roleblock because they were roleblocked. But this contradicts itself, because if they didn't transport themselves into the roleblock, then they would transport themselves into the roleblock because they weren't roleblocked. What would happen? Who gets roleblocked?


You're just repeating yourself again. Are you dumb? Honestly, its not that bloody hard to understand. There's no paradox to it, so stop making it out like there is. ITS A FUCKING TAXI DRIVER!!! You're not going back in time and killing your grandparents. The role block would only occur IF YOU WERE DIRECTLY targeted. Nothing about what I've suggested contradicts itself in any way, you just seem to have trouble understanding more advanced mechanics.
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby dolphina » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:14 pm

because of how the game is coded, the transport has priority over the roleblock, so a roleblock to a transporter would occur. Here’s the sequence of events, played out with a few explanations:

SEQUENCE:
Game is coded so transport > roleblock.

Escort/Consort roleblocks [X].
Transporter transports [X] and themself. Transporter doesn’t have roleblock immunity.
Escort roleblocks Transporter. But if a roleblock prevents the transport from occurring, then how could you even get roleblocked in the first place?

It’s really not that hard to understand. Please calm down, I get that you’re getting a little heated over this, but it isn’t really that big of an issue. A paradox like this in coding would probably crash your game or something.

If you were directly targeted, sure, this wouldn’t be an issue, but it’s because of caveats like this that Transporter has roleblock immunity. Besides, it’s probably easier for the devs to code an umbrella roleblock immunity rather than just take away Transporter’s immunity when it’s directly roleblocked by the escort.

Besides, that’d change priority, which makes it impossible for Transporters to transport roleblock targets.
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby cob709 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:25 pm

MarsGodofWar wrote:
cob709 wrote:
MarsGodofWar wrote:
cob709 wrote:
MarsGodofWar wrote:
because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed


Simple solutation, make role blocking a higher priority. If you get roleblocked the transport never happens.

What if they're transported into the roleblock?
In that case, they get roleblocked so the transport never happens. But if the transport never happens, they never get roleblocked, which means the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen.


You all keep makings things sound like they are complicated when there not. There's no paradoxes between Hookers and Cheuffers, this isn't bloody time travelling. If you were role blocked directly then the transport wouldn't occur. If you were transported into a roleblock, then it would happen. Its honestly quite simple to understand, but you all keep making it out like people are dumb. Transporters being role block immune was implemented because BMG was to lazy to install the mechanics for them to be role blocked.

Anyway, like I've asked dolphina. Please refrain yourself from posting filler. Absolutely no reason to repeat yourself like that

But if they transport themselves into the roleblock, then they would not transport themselves into the roleblock because they were roleblocked. But this contradicts itself, because if they didn't transport themselves into the roleblock, then they would transport themselves into the roleblock because they weren't roleblocked. What would happen? Who gets roleblocked?


You're just repeating yourself again. Are you dumb? Honestly, its not that bloody hard to understand. There's no paradox to it, so stop making it out like there is. ITS A FUCKING TAXI DRIVER!!! You're not going back in time and killing your grandparents. The role block would only occur IF YOU WERE DIRECTLY targeted. Nothing about what I've suggested contradicts itself in any way, you just seem to have trouble understanding more advanced mechanics.

So instead of Transporter being Escort immune, the Escort becomes Transporter immune?
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby MarsGodofWar » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:27 pm

cob709 wrote:So instead of Transporter being Escort immune, the Escort becomes Transporter immune?


Bro can you fuck off? You are absolutely fucking stupid. Stop putting words into my mouth. Not once did I say that an Escort would be immune to Transports, so I don't understand how you pulled that idea out of your ass.
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby cob709 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:30 pm

MarsGodofWar wrote:
cob709 wrote:
MarsGodofWar wrote:
cob709 wrote:
MarsGodofWar wrote:
cob709 wrote:
MarsGodofWar wrote:
because transport is the second action with highest priority in the game, so roleblocks occurs AFTER the transport, u transed urself and giles corey, esc tried to rb giles corey, u get rbed, no transport occurs, but then u were never rbed


Simple solutation, make role blocking a higher priority. If you get roleblocked the transport never happens.

What if they're transported into the roleblock?
In that case, they get roleblocked so the transport never happens. But if the transport never happens, they never get roleblocked, which means the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen. But if they transport does happen, then the Transporter gets roleblock and thus the transport never happens. But if the transport never happened then they would never have been roleblocked, meaning the transport does happen.


You all keep makings things sound like they are complicated when there not. There's no paradoxes between Hookers and Cheuffers, this isn't bloody time travelling. If you were role blocked directly then the transport wouldn't occur. If you were transported into a roleblock, then it would happen. Its honestly quite simple to understand, but you all keep making it out like people are dumb. Transporters being role block immune was implemented because BMG was to lazy to install the mechanics for them to be role blocked.

Anyway, like I've asked dolphina. Please refrain yourself from posting filler. Absolutely no reason to repeat yourself like that

But if they transport themselves into the roleblock, then they would not transport themselves into the roleblock because they were roleblocked. But this contradicts itself, because if they didn't transport themselves into the roleblock, then they would transport themselves into the roleblock because they weren't roleblocked. What would happen? Who gets roleblocked?


You're just repeating yourself again. Are you dumb? Honestly, its not that bloody hard to understand. There's no paradox to it, so stop making it out like there is. ITS A FUCKING TAXI DRIVER!!! You're not going back in time and killing your grandparents. The role block would only occur IF YOU WERE DIRECTLY targeted. Nothing about what I've suggested contradicts itself in any way, you just seem to have trouble understanding more advanced mechanics.

So instead of Transporter being Escort immune, the Escort becomes Transporter immune?


Bro can you fuck off? You are absolutely fucking stupid. Stop putting words into my mouth. Not once did I say that an Escort would be immune to Transports, so I don't understand how you pulled that idea out of your ass.


Then who gets roleblocked? The Transporter or their target?

This change would be difficult and confusing to implement and understand. Players will get confused.
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby MarsGodofWar » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:34 pm

dolphina wrote:because of how the game is coded, the transport has priority over the roleblock, so a roleblock to a transporter would occur. Here’s the sequence of events, played out with a few explanations:

SEQUENCE:
Game is coded so transport > roleblock.

Escort/Consort roleblocks [X].
Transporter transports [X] and themself. Transporter doesn’t have roleblock immunity.
Escort roleblocks Transporter. But if a roleblock prevents the transport from occurring, then how could you even get roleblocked in the first place? Like I said 5 times already. If a transporter gets directly roleblocked, then they would be role blocked. So if they are transporting themself and they get DIRECTLY targetted or if they get roleblocked and they are transporting two other players. The roleblock wouldn't have any effect if the Transporter is indirectly targetted by transing himself into the roleblock.

It’s really not that hard to understand. Please calm down, I get that you’re getting a little heated over this, but it isn’t really that big of an issue. A paradox like this in coding would probably crash your game or something.

Besides, that’d change priority, which makes it impossible for Transporters to transport roleblock targets.
I understand perfectly, I'm the one who keeps having to explain myself after all. It's cob who doesn't seem to understand and keeps making shit up like this is a time travel paradox we are discussing.

Also, it wouldn't crash the game at all, works fine in SC2Mafia. Like I said this game has really lazy mechanics.


If you were directly targeted, sure, this wouldn’t be an issue, but it’s because of caveats like this that Transporter has roleblock immunity. Besides, it’s probably easier for the devs to code an umbrella roleblock immunity rather than just take away Transporter’s immunity when it’s directly roleblocked by the escort.

Besides, that’d change priority, which makes it impossible for Transporters to transport roleblock targets. OMG. You're fucking stupid. There's nothing to imply that Transporter wouldn't be able to transport roleblocked targets. So stop pulling random delusions outta your ass.


It wouldn't crash the game. You should try Starcraft II Mafia sometime, which is what Town of Salem was copied off. The Transporter (Bus Driver) isn't immune to roleblocks and it works fine and makes way more sense. This is how they have described their order of operations. "4- Target switches and role-blockers.
Priority order is Witches, Bus Drivers, then role-blockers (Escort or Consort). It then repeats that cycle a random number of times to deal with complicated webs of events and paradoxes."

And don't tell me to calm down, you got grumpy for the smallest things on this thread : viewtopic.php?f=14&t=115748 And since I started this thread, you've been really annoying and picky about the smallest things. Rather than giving me credit for the perfectly good suggestions. And then you're just rude when I elaborate further on the suggestions.

It's like you don't want this game to change at all and you are perfectly happy with the way the game is. That's good for you, but this game is very unbalanced and is starting to become very boring and stale for a lot of people. This game isn't gaining more players its losing them.

"“people get really fucking mad about it and the devs revert the change” And that's an overeaction for transporter becoming roleblock immune, most people wouldn't care.

Order of Operations: https://sc2mafia.fandom.com/wiki/Mechan ... %20Consort).
Someone else confused: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/archive/ ... -9833.html
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Re: Simple Role Changes

Postby MarsGodofWar » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:41 pm

cob709 wrote:
This change would be difficult and confusing to implement and understand. Players will get confused.


Why is everything so fucking confusing? Honestly, It's really not that confusing bud, give people credit. Both you and Swfjdsfjfdj seem to think every minor change is confusing and that everyone else will get confused. The changes will be advertised in the patch updates and then people will get used to it pretty quickly, especially if the change is minor. NO ONES gonna get confused over a name change, NO ONES gonna get confused over a role losing roleblock immunity, NO ONES gonna get confused about Retributionist being able to Ressurect Transporters. Pushing 3 buttons is not that fucking hard to do. How low is your IQ? Honestly, how hard is it to understand that a Transporter can get roleblocked? It's not, the only one confused here is you and sjdfjfjdfsjdf or whatever his fucking name is. It's more logical and makes more sense what I've suggested. Currently, the game has way too many flawed mechanics.
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