Traitor Concept

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Which roles would you like to see in the TG?

Renegade
1
50%
Mercenary
0
No votes
Agent
0
No votes
Joker
0
No votes
Warlock
0
No votes
Telepath
0
No votes
Prosecutor
0
No votes
I like the concept but none of the roles
0
No votes
The concept is bad and should be scrapped
1
50%
 
Total votes : 2

Traitor Concept

Postby alex1234321 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:27 am

Something traitorous is brewing in Salem. Here is my take on the idea of a role that betrays its own team. Unlike Town Traitor, where the Traitor's power level is drastically dependent on whether it happens to be a Jailor or a Bodyguard, my goal is to create an alignment that is suitable for Ranked play. Amnesiac is similar to these roles in many ways, but the main difference is that Traitor roles are given a side at the beginning of the game and can choose to defect to the other team. This removes the pressure of picking a side before being attacked. It also allows the Traitor to help their original faction early in the game should they prefer to stay as part of their original faction. Additionally, having a full alignment dedicated to Traitors allows for a much greater variety of rules that use this concept compared to just having Amnesiac.

I debated whether or not there should be specific sub-alignments, but I don't think it's necessary since most Traitor roles would side which whoever is winning, similar to NB roles. However, a role that starts off good and can turn evil would probably be more townsided than an evil role that turns good because it is not guaranteed that a player may switch sides, and they may perform actions that help their original team before switching sides later in the game. All Traitor roles will be under the sub-alignment Traitor Turncoat, but I can add sub-alignments if enough people think it is necessary.

Edit: Based on community feedback, I plan on adding more roles with a wider variety of mechanics. For now, I am splitting the roles into Traitor Judas and Traitor Saulus (credit to Cookazoo2 for names).

Sub-Alignments:
Traitor Judas: Roles that are aligned with the Town at the beginning of the game that may defect and turn evil.
Traitor Saulus: Roles that are aligned against the Town at the beginning that may defect and join the Town.

Mechanics:
- Upon death, your role is revealed but not your final alignment
- You may not change sides after death
- If something happens at night that allows you to switch sides, you can switch as a day ability. Your win conditions change at the very end of the day, including after a lynch occurs.

Roles:

Traitor Judas

Renegade
Spoiler: Role Name:
Renegade

Summary:
You are a disillusioned citizen contemplating a life of organized crime.

Role Alignment:
Traitor Judas

Abilities:
Perform the abilities of a non-unique Town role.
Switch allegiances and join the Mafia.

Attributes:
Your original role is [insert role here]].
If this role has unlimited uses, you may not perform its ability in consecutive nights.
If this role has limited uses, you get half the original number of uses rounded up.
You will have the choice to join the Mafia the night after your are visited by one of their members unless there are four living Mafia members. (credit to cob709)
The night that you switch sides, you may choose a non-unique Mafia role to convert into.
You may communicate with the other Mafia members at night after switching sides.

Goal:
Help your current team win the game.

Win Conditions:
Same as Town before switching and Mafia after switching

Additional Information:
After you die, players can see your original role in the graveyard.
In the Coven expansion, you may choose to become either a Coven role or a Mafia role.
Ability limitations apply to both your original Town role and your converted role.


Mercenary
Spoiler: Role Name:
Mercenary

Summary:
You are a soldier who is willing to switch sides given the right opportunity.

Role Alignment:
Traitor Judas

Abilities:
Shoot someone, dealing a Basic attack against them. (2 uses)
If you shoot someone who wins with you, you have the option to betray your faction. (can switch multiple times)

Attributes:
You are aligned with the Town at the start of the game.

Goal:
Help your current team win the game.

Win Conditions:
Same as Town at the beginning. After switching sides, you win as long as you live to see the Town lose.

Additional Information:
You do not have guilt.


Agent
Spoiler: Role Name:
Agent

Summary:
You are a twisted detective who is willing to change allegiances given the right opportunity.

Role Alignment:
Traitor Judas

Abilities:
Investigate one person each night to see if they have spoken at night.
At any point, you can attempt to join forces with the person you investigated the previous night. (can only be done once)

Attributes:
If you try to join forces with a member of the Town, both you and your target will die.
You learn the role of a player after joining forces with them and inherit their win conditions.
After defecting, you learn the exact role of each of your targets.

Goal:
Help your current team win the game.

Win Conditions:
Same as Town at the beginning. After switching sides, you inherit your target's win conditions.

Additional Information:
You do not necessarily need your target to win the game. For example, if you join forces with a Witch, you win as long as you survive to see the Town lose.


Joker
Spoiler: Role Name:
Joker (credit to Kirize for editing my Jester rework)

Summary:
You are an evil lunatic who wants revenge on the townspeople.

Role Alignment:
Traitor Judas

Abilities:
Go into your jack-in-the-box, giving yourself basic defense. (2 uses, only while alive)
Choose someone during the day to speak to that night. (while dead)
Roleblock someone each night through immunity, learning their intended first target. (while dead)

Attributes:
You win with Town while alive or after being killed at night.
After being lynched, you win as long as Town loses.

Goal:
Help your current team win the game.

Win Conditions:
Same as Town at the beginning. After being lynched, you win if Town loses.

Additional Information:
This was designed to be or could be implemented as a Jester rework.


Traitor Saulus

Warlock
Spoiler: Role Name:
Warlock

Summary:
You are a powerful wizard who wants to use his powers for good.

Role Alignment:
Traitor Saulus

Abilities:
Control someone at night.
Switch allegiances and join the Town.

Attributes:
You may only join the Town the night after being attacked by a non-Town role.
You have a mystical barrier that grants you Basic defense until you are attacked.

Goal:
Help your current team win the game.

Win Conditions:
Same as Witch before switching and Town after switching.

Additional Information:
You do not see your target's role but give a notification.


Telepath
Spoiler: Role Name:
Telepath

Summary:
You are a magician who can enter the minds of others.

Role Alignment:
Traitor Saulus

Abilities:
Add one person to your mental network each night.
Heal or roleblock all linked players.

Attributes:
If you die or the game ends before you target all linked players, you win if Town loses.
After successfully preventing a death by healing all linked players, you may choose to switch sides the following night and win with the Town
All players become unlinked after you heal or roleblock them.
You have a mystical barrier that grants you Basic defense until you either switch sides or are attacked.

Goal:
Help your current team win the game.

Win Conditions:
You win if you live to see the Town lose at the beginning of the game. If you ever heal all linked players, your win conditions permanently change to those of the Town.

Additional Information:
None


Prosecutor
Spoiler: Role Name:
Prosecutor

Summary:
You are a crooked lawyer who will do anything to get your targets lynched.

Role Alignment:
Traitor Saulus

Abilities:
Choose one target to accuse each night.
Haunt one player who voted guilty or abstained to the previous lynch, dealing them an unstoppable attack.

Attributes:
You may only haunt someone if your previous target was lynched and does not win with you.
You start the game winning if you live to see the Town loses.
If your target dies the night you select them, you can choose to betray your current team.

Goal:
Help your current team win the game.

Win Conditions:
You win if you live to see the Town lose at the beginning of the game. If you switch sides, you win with Town. You can switch multiple times.

Additional Information:
You can multitask.
Your win condition cannot change after you die.
This was designed as and could be implemented as an Executioner rework.
Last edited by alex1234321 on Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby DiamondRanger8 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:56 am

To me, all of these would add a great amount of interesting moments in Town Traitor or All Any.


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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby Cookazoo2 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:29 pm

I'd suggest for now if Traitors become a whole group that since they could roll under RR (Random tRaitor) that you instead refer to the subcategories as some variant of Judas and Saulus as those refer to roles that switch sides either from good to bad (Judas) or bad to good (Saulus)

Overall, I think this is a solid concept and I would be intrigued to perhaps play one of these.

Mercenary's my strongest pick, due to it being a mixture of Vigilante and a loose-cannon Mafioso, however, I'm slightly concerned for the increase in Mafia KPN if you wanted to make this a Ranked role.

I would also suggest if you wish to expand the list that you create one Judas-type and one Saulus-type role on both sides of the following:
• Killing
• Positive Utility
• Negative Utility
• Information
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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby alex1234321 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:35 pm

Cookazoo2 wrote:I'd suggest for now if Traitors become a whole group that since they could roll under RR (Random tRaitor) that you instead refer to the subcategories as some variant of Judas and Saulus as those refer to roles that switch sides either from good to bad (Judas) or bad to good (Saulus)

What about roles that can switch twice? I allowed Mercenary to do that but at that point they would just be a Citizen that was evil for part of the game. I guess since it starts as Town it would be under Judas?

In that case, what do you think about changing the name of the alignment to Renegade and change the name of the Renegade role to Turncoat or something similar? That would also make it RR for real while fixing any confusion between these roles and the Town Traitor.
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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby Cookazoo2 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:35 pm

alex1234321 wrote:
Cookazoo2 wrote:I'd suggest for now if Traitors become a whole group that since they could roll under RR (Random tRaitor) that you instead refer to the subcategories as some variant of Judas and Saulus as those refer to roles that switch sides either from good to bad (Judas) or bad to good (Saulus)

What about roles that can switch twice? I allowed Mercenary to do that but at that point they would just be a Citizen that was evil for part of the game. I guess since it starts as Town it would be under Judas?

In that case, what do you think about changing the name of the alignment to Renegade and change the name of the Renegade role to Turncoat or something similar? That would also make it RR for real while fixing any confusion between these roles and the Town Traitor.


Since it starts under Town, Mercenary would be Traitor Judas or Renegade Judas.
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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby alex1234321 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:39 pm

Cookazoo2 wrote:
alex1234321 wrote:
Cookazoo2 wrote:I'd suggest for now if Traitors become a whole group that since they could roll under RR (Random tRaitor) that you instead refer to the subcategories as some variant of Judas and Saulus as those refer to roles that switch sides either from good to bad (Judas) or bad to good (Saulus)

What about roles that can switch twice? I allowed Mercenary to do that but at that point they would just be a Citizen that was evil for part of the game. I guess since it starts as Town it would be under Judas?

In that case, what do you think about changing the name of the alignment to Renegade and change the name of the Renegade role to Turncoat or something similar? That would also make it RR for real while fixing any confusion between these roles and the Town Traitor.


Since it starts under Town, Mercenary would be Traitor Judas or Renegade Judas.


Yeah that makes sense. Also your idea with having one role for each category sounds cool, but I'm not sure how some of them would work. For example, an NE investigative role would probably need exact roles at a minimum to be useful, but this would be super OP for Town. A Judas information role could work though.

Renegade and Telepath do not fit into any of the categories that you made, but I guess I can add them as a fifth role for each subalignment and their purpose can be "ambiguous utility" or something.
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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby DiamondRanger8 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:37 pm

alex1234321 wrote:
Cookazoo2 wrote:
alex1234321 wrote:
Cookazoo2 wrote:I'd suggest for now if Traitors become a whole group that since they could roll under RR (Random tRaitor) that you instead refer to the subcategories as some variant of Judas and Saulus as those refer to roles that switch sides either from good to bad (Judas) or bad to good (Saulus)

What about roles that can switch twice? I allowed Mercenary to do that but at that point they would just be a Citizen that was evil for part of the game. I guess since it starts as Town it would be under Judas?

In that case, what do you think about changing the name of the alignment to Renegade and change the name of the Renegade role to Turncoat or something similar? That would also make it RR for real while fixing any confusion between these roles and the Town Traitor.


Since it starts under Town, Mercenary would be Traitor Judas or Renegade Judas.


Yeah that makes sense. Also your idea with having one role for each category sounds cool, but I'm not sure how some of them would work. For example, an NE investigative role would probably need exact roles at a minimum to be useful, but this would be super OP for Town. A Judas information role could work though.

Renegade and Telepath do not fit into any of the categories that you made, but I guess I can add them as a fifth role for each subalignment and their purpose can be "ambiguous utility" or something.



An idea if this were added would be to have a Traitor Judas, Traitor Saulus, and Traitor Neutral category. If this were a thing there would probably have to be another Judas and another Saulus role to balance the categories to use in a role list.
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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby Cookazoo2 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:40 pm

actually, do you mind if i use this as a springboard for a Rebels faction and expansion?

i'll elab in a bit
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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby alex1234321 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:58 pm

Cookazoo2 wrote:actually, do you mind if i use this as a springboard for a Rebels faction and expansion?

i'll elab in a bit


Not at all. That actually sounds like a great idea!

Meanwhile I’ll make the alignment name changes and maybe add a new role or two later tonight.

DiamondRanger8 wrote:
alex1234321 wrote:
Cookazoo2 wrote:
alex1234321 wrote:
Cookazoo2 wrote:I'd suggest for now if Traitors become a whole group that since they could roll under RR (Random tRaitor) that you instead refer to the subcategories as some variant of Judas and Saulus as those refer to roles that switch sides either from good to bad (Judas) or bad to good (Saulus)

What about roles that can switch twice? I allowed Mercenary to do that but at that point they would just be a Citizen that was evil for part of the game. I guess since it starts as Town it would be under Judas?

In that case, what do you think about changing the name of the alignment to Renegade and change the name of the Renegade role to Turncoat or something similar? That would also make it RR for real while fixing any confusion between these roles and the Town Traitor.


Since it starts under Town, Mercenary would be Traitor Judas or Renegade Judas.


Yeah that makes sense. Also your idea with having one role for each category sounds cool, but I'm not sure how some of them would work. For example, an NE investigative role would probably need exact roles at a minimum to be useful, but this would be super OP for Town. A Judas information role could work though.

Renegade and Telepath do not fit into any of the categories that you made, but I guess I can add them as a fifth role for each subalignment and their purpose can be "ambiguous utility" or something.



An idea if this were added would be to have a Traitor Judas, Traitor Saulus, and Traitor Neutral category. If this were a thing there would probably have to be another Judas and another Saulus role to balance the categories to use in a role list.


What roles would be Traitor Neutral? I was talking about roles that could be either positive or negative utility while still fitting clearly into either the Saulus or Judas subalignments.
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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby DiamondRanger8 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:48 pm

Mercenary would be Traitor Neutral, as it doesn't start on either faction until it shoots.
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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby alex1234321 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:02 pm

DiamondRanger8 wrote:Mercenary would be Traitor Neutral, as it doesn't start on either faction until it shoots.


It starts as Town. Shooting is a separate action from changing sides even though both consume a charge. So in theory Mercenary can change sides twice and end up as Town at the end, but that would be very rare and almost never a good play since it would mean that you're basically a Citizen that spent part of the game trying to harm Town. Testing would be needed to determine whether it is substantially more townsided than a typical Traitor Judas role, but I doubt it would be.

What do you think of the double switching mechanic? I like it because it can potentially lead to some strange situations, but it might be too easy to win as since you can act like a Survivor and take whichever side is winning at the moment.
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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby DiamondRanger8 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:00 pm

alex1234321 wrote:
DiamondRanger8 wrote:Mercenary would be Traitor Neutral, as it doesn't start on either faction until it shoots.


It starts as Town. Shooting is a separate action from changing sides even though both consume a charge. So in theory Mercenary can change sides twice and end up as Town at the end, but that would be very rare and almost never a good play since it would mean that you're basically a Citizen that spent part of the game trying to harm Town. Testing would be needed to determine whether it is substantially more townsided than a typical Traitor Judas role, but I doubt it would be.

What do you think of the double switching mechanic? I like it because it can potentially lead to some strange situations, but it might be too easy to win as since you can act like a Survivor and take whichever side is winning at the moment.



Oh ok I misunderstood then. All of them would fit cleanly into those 2 alignments then.
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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby DiamondRanger8 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:30 pm

JustSomeOtherGuy wrote:this is literally terrible its just a survivor that can prove its helping who it says its so bad stop



How is just a Survivor though. They all have abilities different from Survivor.
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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby Parallax7 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:32 pm

At first glance, it seems pretty cool conceptually. When I get home I’ll actually evaluate it though.

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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby alex1234321 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:01 pm

JustSomeOtherGuy wrote:this is literally terrible its just a survivor that can prove its helping who it says its so bad stop


None of these roles has a Survivor wincon, and I tried my best to make sure that the roles or at least their alignments aren't confirmable. If you think I missed something with one of the roles, please elaborate.

Parallax7 wrote:At first glance, it seems pretty cool conceptually. When I get home I’ll actually evaluate it though.

How are you, by the way?


I'm good, life is slightly less busy for me so I decided to come back. I used to waste way a ton of time on here and eventually I decided that it was cutting into my real life obligations so I left. Now I have more time to kill so I'm wasting it here.
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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby cob709 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:38 am

I enjoy the concept of a role switching factions(not vampire tho), but the player's discretion should be limited, as their chances to win are significantly higher and may have potential to be swingy.

Perhaps instead of allowing these roles to choose the faction, they should instead start with one faction, but if a certain criteria is achieved, then they are forced into the opposing team.

For example, assume a player starts as town. After Night 6 passes, they switch and become a member of the evil faction.
Another way is that if the Mafia visits the traitor, then they are recruited.
Spoiler:
Example wrote:Renegade/Renegade
Traitor/Traitor Judas
Abilities
    Perform the abilities of a non-unique Town role.
Attributes
    Your original role is [Role]
    If at least one member of the Mafia is alive after Night 6, you will defect to the Mafia.
    The night that you defect, you may choose a non-unique Mafia role to convert into.
    You may communicate with the other Mafia members at night after defecting.

Spoiler:
Example wrote:Renegade/Renegade
Traitor/Traitor Judas
Abilities
    Perform the abilities of a non-unique Town role.
Attributes
    Your original role is [Role]
    if you are visited by the Mafia, you will be recruited, unless there are four members of the Mafia.
    The night that you defect, you may choose a non-unique Mafia role to convert into.
    You may communicate with the other Mafia members at night after defecting.

(Line 3 of "Attributes" is different in each spoiler)

Overall, I would support a Town Traitor gamemode rework, but their conditions of being becoming a traitor should not be at the discretion of a player.
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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby alex1234321 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:34 am

cob709 wrote:I enjoy the concept of a role switching factions(not vampire tho), but the player's discretion should be limited, as their chances to win are significantly higher and may have potential to be swingy.

Perhaps instead of allowing these roles to choose the faction, they should instead start with one faction, but if a certain criteria is achieved, then they are forced into the opposing team.

For example, assume a player starts as town. After Night 6 passes, they switch and become a member of the evil faction.
Another way is that if the Mafia visits the traitor, then they are recruited.
Spoiler:
Example wrote:Renegade/Renegade
Traitor/Traitor Judas
Abilities
    Perform the abilities of a non-unique Town role.
Attributes
    Your original role is [Role]
    If at least one member of the Mafia is alive after Night 6, you will defect to the Mafia.
    The night that you defect, you may choose a non-unique Mafia role to convert into.
    You may communicate with the other Mafia members at night after defecting.

Spoiler:
Example wrote:Renegade/Renegade
Traitor/Traitor Judas
Abilities
    Perform the abilities of a non-unique Town role.
Attributes
    Your original role is [Role]
    if you are visited by the Mafia, you will be recruited, unless there are four members of the Mafia.
    The night that you defect, you may choose a non-unique Mafia role to convert into.
    You may communicate with the other Mafia members at night after defecting.

(Line 3 of "Attributes" is different in each spoiler)

Overall, I would support a Town Traitor gamemode rework, but their conditions of being becoming a traitor should not be at the discretion of a player.


I think they should still have some freedom to pick a side, but I see what you mean. If they are automatically recruited, they probably would have little incentive to play well in their original faction because at any moment they could switch to an opposing faction. Other mechanisms like night numbers could give the player a better idea of whether they will change teams, but night numbers are arbitrary and players still might not put in a lot of effort knowing that they will switch at some point later in the game.

The best solution would be to allow players to switch sides but only if a certain condition is met. For example, maybe a Renegade would have to be visited by a Mafia member to be able to switch, but they can stay in their original faction if they would prefer to do so.

Edit: I added betrayal conditions for all the roles but allowed then to choose to stay on their original team if they would prefer.
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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby alex1234321 » Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:32 pm

I made some large edits to the roles and added Joker and Prosecutor, which are designed as Jester and Executioner reworks. Win and betrayal conditions were tweaked and several of the roles were nerfed to reduce swing. In particular, Renegade and Agent were given major nerfs. I hope to submit this for TG next cycle.
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Re: Traitor Concept

Postby MR60G0LD » Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:10 pm

Renegade is cool, a sneaky side switcher when the opportunity calls for it

Mercenary is awesome, essentially a vigilante that decides to join someone else when they screw up and you aren't sure whether they changed their side or not.

Agent is rather strong by what I understand but it is interesting, this role intrigues me.

Joker is pretty cool, a survivor sided with town that changes sides if they get lynched, however I dislike that they have the ability of a dead medium essentially, I'd personally remove that.

Warlock is essentially a side switching witch, not much else to say.

I like how telepath works, really cool, you essentially set up and when you feel the time is right, you either mass roleblock or mass heal, really nice.

The prosecutor is cool, essentially a jester and executioner combined into one.

Overall this is a pretty fun faction, nice job
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